Hot Take: DBMultiverse pulled off the Multiverse Tournament concept better than DBS’s Tournament of Power...

[AnimeNation101]

Characters: Look. I’m all for new characters. And I’d probably prefer a whole cast of new characters as Tournament contestants over alternate reality versions of our main cast. But this only applies if the cast of new characters were actually developed and not complete fodder. And thats what the majority of the T.o.P new characters were. And for crying out loud, the main antagonist had a personality more basic that a beige colored wall. On DBM’s side, there was always that bit of interest in wondering how each alternate reality version of a character’s personality differs and why is it so different. And from the personalities we got, apart from some “odd” traits, i loved them. And even from the few new characters that we do get, they are all more developed and interesting than 80 percent of the T.o.P new characters.

Structure: The idea of a Battle Royale was something original for DB but MAN did they mess it up. As many have said again and again, the T.o.P was much less of a Battle Royale and more of each universe team lining up to take on Universe 7. DBM stuck with the 1v1s which meant that they would be forced to have fights between universes that we are unfamiliar with so they avoided the “main universe that everyone knows and loves vs everyone else” problem that the T.o.P had and therefore made the DBM tournament feel much more like a Multiverse Tournament with everyone universe against each other rather than all of them against the Main Universe. So DBS promised something and executed it badly. DBM promised something and executed it well.

Story: While not DBS’s fault, because the T.o.P was an official DB story arc, it was obvious that everything would be ok by the end andthe outcome was predictable for the most part. But because DBM was a fan manga, i felt as though i had 0 idea how this could possibly end as, unlike DBS, it had no chains holding it back from having a happy, predictable ending.

The T.o.P plot was basic throughout. No real shifts, surprises, or switch ups. It was a fight for survival from beginning to end. No interruptions or villains. And the ending being predictable didn’t help. DBM’s Tournament on the other hand, started as a Multiverse Tournament and slowly developed with having the Ginyu mystery, the mystery of Universe 5’s XVI, Bardock’s vision, Babidi’s take over plan, etc. Hell, as of now, Babidi’s take over plan literally interrupted the tournament causing an all out battle between the Majin multiverse characters and the good guy multiverse characters. Doing stuff like this keeps the Tournament arc from getting stale. Thats why faster many episodes watching the T.o.P, i wished we could get an intermission where we see what Trunks and Goten are doing on 17’s Island. The T.o.P wasn’t shaking things up. So it got stale after some time.


Edge: I gotta address it. I know DBM has edge (also lacking a lot of the db spirit) but tbh, the edge alone aint enough to bring my enjoyment of the manga to a lower ranking than the T.o.P. But yeah, the edge and lack of DB spirit is probably my only problem but still a big one i have with DBM.

Technically DBM is still going to I’ll change my claim to this.

Dragon Ball Multiverse is pulling off the Multiverse Tournament concept better than DBS’s Tournament of Power...

[PFM18]

Although I vehemently disagree, I don't really think this is a hot take. The ToP is a very hated arc as far as I can tell in this fandom.

[Tai Lung]

Characters: Look. I’m all for new characters. And I’d probably prefer a whole cast of new characters as Tournament contestants over alternate reality versions of our main cast. But this only applies if the cast of new characters were actually developed and not complete fodder. And thats what the majority of the T.o.P new characters were. And for crying out loud, the main antagonist had a personality more basic that a beige colored wall. On DBM’s side, there was always that bit of interest in wondering how each alternate reality version of a character’s personality differs and why is it so different. And from the personalities we got, apart from some “odd” traits, i loved them. And even from the few new characters that we do get, they are all more developed and interesting than 80 percent of the T.o.P new characters.

Structure: The idea of a Battle Royale was something original for DB but MAN did they mess it up. As many have said again and again, the T.o.P was much less of a Battle Royale and more of each universe team lining up to take on Universe 7. DBM stuck with the 1v1s which meant that they would be forced to have fights between universes that we are unfamiliar with so they avoided the “main universe that everyone knows and loves vs everyone else” problem that the T.o.P had and therefore made the DBM tournament feel much more like a Multiverse Tournament with everyone universe against each other rather than all of them against the Main Universe. So DBS promised something and executed it badly. DBM promised something and executed it well.

Story: While not DBS’s fault, because the T.o.P was an official DB story arc, it was obvious that everything would be ok by the end andthe outcome was predictable for the most part. But because DBM was a fan manga, i felt as though i had 0 idea how this could possibly end as, unlike DBS, it had no chains holding it back from having a happy, predictable ending.

The T.o.P plot was basic throughout. No real shifts, surprises, or switch ups. It was a fight for survival from beginning to end. No interruptions or villains. And the ending being predictable didn’t help. DBM’s Tournament on the other hand, started as a Multiverse Tournament and slowly developed with having the Ginyu mystery, the mystery of Universe 5’s XVI, Bardock’s vision, Babidi’s take over plan, etc. Hell, as of now, Babidi’s take over plan literally interrupted the tournament causing an all out battle between the Majin multiverse characters and the good guy multiverse characters. Doing stuff like this keeps the Tournament arc from getting stale. Thats why faster many episodes watching the T.o.P, i wished we could get an intermission where we see what Trunks and Goten are doing on 17’s Island. The T.o.P wasn’t shaking things up. So it got stale after some time.


Edge: I gotta address it. I know DBM has edge (also lacking a lot of the db spirit) but tbh, the edge alone aint enough to bring my enjoyment of the manga to a lower ranking than the T.o.P. But yeah, the edge and lack of DB spirit is probably my only problem but still a big one i have with DBM.

Technically DBM is still going to I’ll change my claim to this.

Dragon Ball Multiverse is pulling off the Multiverse Tournament concept better than DBS’s Tournament of Power...

not really, multiverse is boring after cell vs hildegarm
the characters have a very wrong development
videl has never been a warrior, much less to get so far in another time line, bra has a very inconsistent personality for the time of peace that she lived, only his version of pan that if I liked a lot.
most of those characters are old and had their development in the original series
there is no development for cooler or bojack only a not very explanatory origin
his new characters are more forgettable than yurin and that includes the coballeros of the zodiac and that old magician
it's a bit ridiculous to compare both and if you're going to take more than 3 years to put together a single tournament it's not worth it even if it has variations in including more topics that would be an obligation not to bore the public and it does not .
the tournament is not obsolete because the experience that each one acquired is the important one.
literally the tournament is very different and each one focuses and planned in a different way that and the difference of cast of number of characters, time and other would be like comparing a whole series with a single arc
for me
TOP Anime >>>> DB Multiverse >> Top manga

[Kanassa]

Characters: On DBM’s side, there was always that bit of interest in wondering how each alternate reality version of a character’s personality differs and why is it so different. And from the personalities we got, apart from some “odd” traits, i loved them. And even from the few new characters that we do get, they are all more developed and interesting than 80 percent of the T.o.P new characters

There's no interest in how the different realities will turn out or interact because Multiverse barely ever capitalizes on it, characters mostly have little to no personality or are just the same as they always are, with the only characters acting that much different are the Author's pets mid-orgasm. And because of this, there's no weight to this different version of characters interacting with each other with the most they get being "Oh, that's weird.". It juggles so many what ifs that it can't do anything with them.

Which is a major fuck up considering those are kind of the entire draw of having what-if stories.

Story: While not DBS’s fault, because the T.o.P was an official DB story arc, it was obvious that everything would be ok by the end andthe outcome was predictable for the most part. But because DBM was a fan manga, i felt as though i had 0 idea how this could possibly end as, unlike DBS, it had no chains holding it back from having a happy, predictable ending.

The T.o.P plot was basic throughout. No real shifts, surprises, or switch ups. It was a fight for survival from beginning to end. No interruptions or villains. And the ending being predictable didn’t help. DBM’s Tournament on the other hand, started as a Multiverse Tournament and slowly developed with having the Ginyu mystery, the mystery of Universe 5’s XVI, Bardock’s vision, Babidi’s take over plan, etc. Hell, as of now, Babidi’s take over plan literally interrupted the tournament causing an all out battle between the Majin multiverse characters and the good guy multiverse characters. Doing stuff like this keeps the Tournament arc from getting stale. Thats why faster many episodes watching the T.o.P, i wished we could get an intermission where we see what Trunks and Goten are doing on 17’s Island. The T.o.P wasn’t shaking things up. So it got stale after some time.

Having bland filler constantly interrupting the plot doesn't count as shaking things up, it just makes it look like the writer doesn't actually know where their plot is going so they pull an event out of their ass to stall for time, especially when nothing is really done with said interruptions. The Ginyu part actually started off looking interesting, but in the end just became meaningless and wasted because nothing was done with it, it was just quickly swept under the rug. And this boring waste of Babidi's take over, dear god, it is some of the most empty parts of a story I've ever read. Just a bunch of nothing fights that only hold the appeal of 'Oh, look, the non-Saiyans are kicking ass. Yay.'. Fuck, we spent so many pages on just Ginyu's annoying fight only for Gohan to just walts in and emotionlessly one-shot him. It's so boring and just shows how meaningless the last few pages were.

Multiverse is the RPG that keeps interrupting the main quest with sudden busywork to pad the game time. "You have arrived at the final boss! But we lost the key to the front door, so you have to take a 30 minute diversion with three more dungeons to create a new key AND that's after you've rescued the key maker from that fortress all the way on the other side of the game world"

The T.O.P shook things up by the different team-ups and how the characters clashed, getting to see the weaker characters make themselves useful in unique ways, having characters having actual dynamics and interactions in their fights as well as making creative uses of their powers. Story-wise, the T.O.P has a lot of character building while inspecting their connections to Goku as this giant celebration of Dragon Ball's vast history. Piccolo's self-worth issues, 17 trying to be less robotic, Vegeta facing off against a reflection of his past sins, Goku growing to enjoy the role of a teacher, Roshi reflecting on how Goku and Krillin throughout Z and Super have inspired him to not stop pushing his limits, ect. The anime has so much more going on in it's 'basic' plot than Multiverse has even attempted. And that's not even talking about how the other universe's have their own small developments even down to how they all react to being erased in a different way.

Multiverse has... Uh... Pan getting her neck snapped? Well, it at least has the interesting development of Ginyu growing disillusioned with Frieza, which is actually building off an interesting what if concept and direction.

Edge: I gotta address it. I know DBM has edge (also lacking a lot of the db spirit) but tbh, the edge alone aint enough to bring my enjoyment of the manga to a lower ranking than the T.o.P. But yeah, the edge and lack of DB spirit is probably my only problem but still a big one i have with DBM.

The edge brings down the manga because it's a prevalent element that feeds into taking away from scenes, doing it so much that it sucks any sort of shock, horror or spectacle out of the act.

[Tai Lung]

Although I vehemently disagree, I don't really think this is a hot take. The ToP is a very hated arc as far as I can tell in this fandom.

the Top is one of the best that the series had at the level of cell games and better than the 21 or 22 tenkaichi

[PFM18]

Although I vehemently disagree, I don't really think this is a hot take. The ToP is a very hated arc as far as I can tell in this fandom.

the Top is one of the best that the series had at the level of cell games and better than the 21 or 22 tenkaichi

I agree that the ToP is some of the best this franchise has to offer, but I disagree with the arcs alongside it being the Cell arc, 21st and 22nd Budokai arcs. I frankly consider the 21st Tenkaichi Budokai to be the worst of the three TBs and the Cell arc to be one of the weaker arcs in the "Z era."

[HeroR]

Although I vehemently disagree, I don't really think this is a hot take. The ToP is a very hated arc as far as I can tell in this fandom.

Where do you get it's a hated arc? There are people who loves it, despite its issues. People debate if this arc or the Future Trunks Saga that was the best from Super. And those arcs are considered some of the best within Dragon Ball in general in some circles.

Overall, I never got the sense the fanbase hated the TOP outside a vocal minority.

[Kanassa]

Although I vehemently disagree, I don't really think this is a hot take. The ToP is a very hated arc as far as I can tell in this fandom.

Where do you get it's a hated arc? There are people who loves it, despite its issues. People debate if this arc or the Future Trunks Saga that was the best from Super. And those arcs are considered some of the best within Dragon Ball in general in some circles.

Overall, I never got the sense the fanbase hated the TOP outside a vocal minority.

I think the general consensus is that it wasn't bad, but it wasn't what it could have been and is dragged down by some bullshit.

[HeroR]

Although I vehemently disagree, I don't really think this is a hot take. The ToP is a very hated arc as far as I can tell in this fandom.

Where do you get it's a hated arc? There are people who loves it, despite its issues. People debate if this arc or the Future Trunks Saga that was the best from Super. And those arcs are considered some of the best within Dragon Ball in general in some circles.

Overall, I never got the sense the fanbase hated the TOP outside a vocal minority.

I think the general consensus is that it wasn't bad, but it wasn't what it could have been and is dragged down by some bullshit.

I can agree with that. The battle royal was undercooked, U7 did too much, U4 was an absolute joke, it took U7 too long to really lose its numbers, and Vegeta vs Toppo really needed to be longer despite having a great theme and payoff. The arc did dragged at points, but it's much better when you can watched it all at once instead of weekly.

[wolflonnie]

I disagree.
Multiverse, while overall good, has an horrid, horrid pacing due to the unnecessary and sort-of-mandatory specials, and a lot of uninteresting, boring stuff.
While I concede that the majority of "new" characters of Multiverse are better than the pack of nobodies of the ToP, ToP still wins due to better pacing, more interesting scenarios, better fights.
I just can't remember many memorable fights in Multiverse (except Vegetto vs Broly?), while ToP had so many strategic, well written ones I often find myself re-watching those specific fights on YouTube.
Also Multiverse tend to give too much screentime to some specific guys (Vegetto, Bra), sometimes even really uninteresting ones (Videl), while Goku & co. are almost thirtiary characters.
People don't give enough credits to the ToP, but it was amazing excluding something here and there. Can't say the same about Multiverse.
But honestly I don't think it's fair to compare the twos: Multiverse is written by a single guy if I'm not mistaken, while ToP by a moltitude of professionals.

[Zamasu55]

I disagree. It was a total mess and I really couldn't catch up.

[Zamasu55]

I disagree. It was a total mess and I really couldn't catch up.

[AnimeNation101]

I disagree.
Multiverse, while overall good, has an horrid, horrid pacing due to the unnecessary and sort-of-mandatory specials, and a lot of uninteresting, boring stuff.
While I concede that the majority of "new" characters of Multiverse are better than the pack of nobodies of the ToP, ToP still wins due to better pacing, more interesting scenarios, better fights.
I just can't remember many memorable fights in Multiverse (except Vegetto vs Broly?), while ToP had so many strategic, well written ones I often find myself re-watching those specific fights on YouTube.
Also Multiverse tend to give too much screentime to some specific guys (Vegetto, Bra), sometimes even really uninteresting ones (Videl), while Goku & co. are almost thirtiary characters.
People don't give enough credits to the ToP, but it was amazing excluding something here and there. Can't say the same about Multiverse.
But honestly I don't think it's fair to compare the twos: Multiverse is written by a single guy if I'm not mistaken, while ToP by a moltitude of professionals.

I’m not grading the DBMultiverse series. I’m grading how it executed the “Multiverse Tournament” concept. The specials aren’t apart of the Tournament. But i understand ur other points.

Its funny, your last point. People keep telling me its unfair that DBM had 10 years of time for its story while T.o.P had way less. But you’re saying DBM is written by 1 or 2 guys and the T.o.P was written by multiple professionals which is also a good point. Nevertheless, most of the time, comparing anything to anything will always have a level of unfairness.

[AnimeNation101]

Characters: On DBM’s side, there was always that bit of interest in wondering how each alternate reality version of a character’s personality differs and why is it so different. And from the personalities we got, apart from some “odd” traits, i loved them. And even from the few new characters that we do get, they are all more developed and interesting than 80 percent of the T.o.P new characters

There's no interest in how the different realities will turn out or interact because Multiverse barely ever capitalizes on it, characters mostly have little to no personality or are just the same as they always are, with the only characters acting that much different are the Author's pets mid-orgasm. And because of this, there's no weight to this different version of characters interacting with each other with the most they get being "Oh, that's weird.". It juggles so many what ifs that it can't do anything with them.

Which is a major fuck up considering those are kind of the entire draw of having what-if stories.

I'm just saying i find more interest in alternate reality versions of characters we already know as you can at least gain curiosity for how they ended up different and what happened in their universe. Thats better than 70% to 80% of the new fighters we got in the T.o.P who were flat nobodies. The most you could get out of them was one unique trait they had which could entertain a battle for about half and episode to a whole episode. And i know I'm arguing about specifically how they handle the Multiuverse Tournament concept and not their whole series but technically, the special chapters capitalize on each universe so that they dont have fill the actual Tournament arc with tons of development and backstory which would heavily slow it down. So yeah, I’d take alternate reality versions of know characters who bring even the slightest bit of curiosity over flat characters with wacky designs and MAYBE a one trick ability if you’re lucky. All in all, DBM’s Tournament just handled its contestants better.

Story: While not DBS’s fault, because the T.o.P was an official DB story arc, it was obvious that everything would be ok by the end andthe outcome was predictable for the most part. But because DBM was a fan manga, i felt as though i had 0 idea how this could possibly end as, unlike DBS, it had no chains holding it back from having a happy, predictable ending.

The T.o.P plot was basic throughout. No real shifts, surprises, or switch ups. It was a fight for survival from beginning to end. No interruptions or villains. And the ending being predictable didn’t help. DBM’s Tournament on the other hand, started as a Multiverse Tournament and slowly developed with having the Ginyu mystery, the mystery of Universe 5’s XVI, Bardock’s vision, Babidi’s take over plan, etc. Hell, as of now, Babidi’s take over plan literally interrupted the tournament causing an all out battle between the Majin multiverse characters and the good guy multiverse characters. Doing stuff like this keeps the Tournament arc from getting stale. Thats why faster many episodes watching the T.o.P, i wished we could get an intermission where we see what Trunks and Goten are doing on 17’s Island. The T.o.P wasn’t shaking things up. So it got stale after some time.

Having bland filler constantly interrupting the plot doesn't count as shaking things up, it just makes it look like the writer doesn't actually know where their plot is going so they pull an event out of their ass to stall for time, especially when nothing is really done with said interruptions. The Ginyu part actually started off looking interesting, but in the end just became meaningless and wasted because nothing was done with it, it was just quickly swept under the rug. And this boring waste of Babidi's take over, dear god, it is some of the most empty parts of a story I've ever read. Just a bunch of nothing fights that only hold the appeal of 'Oh, look, the non-Saiyans are kicking ass. Yay.'. Fuck, we spent so many pages on just Ginyu's annoying fight only for Gohan to just walts in and emotionlessly one-shot him. It's so boring and just shows how meaningless the last few pages were.

Multiverse is the RPG that keeps interrupting the main quest with sudden busywork to pad the game time. "You have arrived at the final boss! But we lost the key to the front door, so you have to take a 30 minute diversion with three more dungeons to create a new key AND that's after you've rescued the key maker from that fortress all the way on the other side of the game world"

The T.O.P shook things up by the different team-ups and how the characters clashed, getting to see the weaker characters make themselves useful in unique ways, having characters having actual dynamics and interactions in their fights as well as making creative uses of their powers. Story-wise, the T.O.P has a lot of character building while inspecting their connections to Goku as this giant celebration of Dragon Ball's vast history. Piccolo's self-worth issues, 17 trying to be less robotic, Vegeta facing off against a reflection of his past sins, Goku growing to enjoy the role of a teacher, Roshi reflecting on how Goku and Krillin throughout Z and Super have inspired him to not stop pushing his limits, ect. The anime has so much more going on in it's 'basic' plot than Multiverse has even attempted. And that's not even talking about how the other universe's have their own small developments even down to how they all react to being erased in a different way.

Multiverse has... Uh... Pan getting her neck snapped? Well, it at least has the interesting development of Ginyu growing disillusioned with Frieza, which is actually building off an interesting what if concept and direction.

Edge: I gotta address it. I know DBM has edge (also lacking a lot of the db spirit) but tbh, the edge alone aint enough to bring my enjoyment of the manga to a lower ranking than the T.o.P. But yeah, the edge and lack of DB spirit is probably my only problem but still a big one i have with DBM.

The edge brings down the manga because it's a prevalent element that feeds into taking away from scenes, doing it so much that it sucks any sort of shock, horror or spectacle out of the act.

As for the story, this just comes down to preferences. It seems as though if you have an arc advertised as a Tournament, you want what is being shown as face value.

Me? I like to be surprised. I dont like being advertised a story arc knowing how it will basically be from start to finish. Not to mention, for specifically Tournaments, sitting through them gets me bored. I find them more as just excuses to have people fight with no interesting context or reasoning besides, “they have to, its the rules.”

I dont see what DBM did as filler. I see it as a Tournament with twists, turns, mystery, and an interruption. Stuff that keep the actual Tournament arc from getting stale. But to each, his own.

[AnimeNation101]

I disagree. It was a total mess and I really couldn't catch up.

Might i ask how far did you read?

[Toxin45]

Well DBM was a fan fiction so it doesn't really to be compared to super and Frieza returning was way better than what he was in DBM

[supersaiyanZero]

Multiverse ain't perfect, but it is definitely better than the ToP.

[Zephyr]

The Tournament of Power, despite its myriad problems, ultimately knew whose story it was telling, and (eventually) knew when to wrap it up. It was also the fifth chapter in an ongoing story, that closed and opened several plot threads that extend beyond it.

I think Multiverse is a good textbook example of why a lot of the complaints levied at the Tournament of Power are an absolute crock. Fandom wet dream match ups and character interactions are fine, but a story doesn't require these to function, it needs more than them to function, and after a certain point it's clear that the writers just wanted to draw a comic out of all of their own original Budokai Tenkaichi 3 what-if fights. Showing us the backstories for characters, and passing the spotlight around is fine, but people exaggerate how necessary these are, and Multiverse shows what happens when you're beyond excessive with it.

[AnimeNation101]

The Tournament of Power, despite its myriad problems, ultimately knew whose story it was telling, and (eventually) knew when to wrap it up. It was also the fifth chapter in an ongoing story, that closed and opened several plot threads that extend beyond it.

It did know what story it was telling. But the way it told it wasn’t that good. Also, “closed and opened several plot threads that extend beyond it”? Thats giving it too much credit.

What plot threads that extended beyond the Universe Survival Arc did the arc open and close?

-it closed the Mutliverse Tournament plot thread established in the U6 v U7 arc
-you could say them showing us the other characters and gods from other universe closed the plot thread of having 12 universes in the first place but if that was the case, they closed it in a bad way considering we had very little exploration of each universe and very little development from each universe’s fighter
-it POSSIBLY opened up a “Jiren’s evil doer” plot thread
-it opened a plot thread for an alive Freeza

[Zephyr]

It did know what story it was telling. But the way it told it wasn’t that good.

The way Multiverse is telling the story it doesn't seem to know isn't very good either. It's cramped, and it's paced so slow that it makes "Five Minutes on Namek" and the anime's Tournament of Power blush.

Also, “closed and opened several plot threads that extend beyond it”? Thats giving it too much credit.

What plot threads that extended beyond the Universe Survival Arc did the arc open and close?

-it closed the Mutliverse Tournament plot thread established in the U6 v U7 arc
-you could say them showing us the other characters and gods from other universe closed the plot thread of having 12 universes in the first place but if that was the case, they closed it in a bad way considering we had very little exploration of each universe and very little development from each universe’s fighter
-it POSSIBLY opened up a “Jiren’s evil doer” plot thread
-it opened a plot thread for an alive Freeza

I'm not sure how that's "giving it too much credit" when you rattled off several yourself. Others include:

- Whis teaching Goku and Vegeta about moving without thinking has resulting in Ultra Instinct. Goku still can't tap into the state at will, and he and Vegeta are still training with Beerus and Whis.
- Freeza's growth as a martial artist that began in Resurrection F is continued here.
- Frost's nature as an off-brand Freeza is put to use by name-brand Freeza manipulating him.
- Vegeta taking Cabba under his wing and showing him the Super Saiyan state manifested in two new Super Saiyans.
- Following from that, as well as the existence of alternate-Universe off-brands, Kale low-key foreshadows Broli.
- In the manga, it's heavily implied that having two Zeno around is what expedites their boredom, manifesting in the desire to eliminate universes in the first place.
- In typical Dragon Ball tradition, Hit, a former antagonist, is humbled by the new big fish, and is now cooperative.
- In typical Dragon Ball tradition, Jiren, a former antagonist, will likely be humbled by a new big fish and become cooperative, or have a rematch with Goku, or both.

And arguably the most important one:
- We bookend the anime with Blooma's cruise ship.