I'm done with the dub

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: I'm done with the dub

Post by linkdude20002001 » Wed Mar 20, 2019 4:16 pm

HeroR wrote:
Mon Mar 18, 2019 12:45 pm
Personally prefer the dub despite watching all the sub episodes as their aired. The script changes aren't nearly as drastic as some people pushed, although there as some weirdness. But other helped enhanced the dialog, which can be very dry at times or repetitive.
Perhaps the subtitles just aren't translated well / written well. I mean, a professional translator isn't usually also a professional story writer. This is why Viz hires a separate writer to reword the script. I find it hard to believe that the Japanese script is dry. Also, perhaps it's just that you're comparing specific scenes that just so happen to be standard text (not EVERY line can be humorous) to the English dub's changed dialog. Or maybe you just don't like Akira Toriyama's writing style or his humor? Just some ideas. I just find it hard to believe that Funimation could ever enhance anything with "Dragon Ball" in the titel...
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Re: I'm done with the dub

Post by HeroR » Wed Mar 20, 2019 4:23 pm

linkdude20002001 wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 4:16 pm
HeroR wrote:
Mon Mar 18, 2019 12:45 pm
Personally prefer the dub despite watching all the sub episodes as their aired. The script changes aren't nearly as drastic as some people pushed, although there as some weirdness. But other helped enhanced the dialog, which can be very dry at times or repetitive.
Perhaps the subtitles just aren't translated well / written well. I mean, a professional translator isn't usually also a professional story writer. This is why Viz hires a separate writer to reword the script. I find it hard to believe that the Japanese script is dry. Also, perhaps it's just that you're comparing specific scenes that just so happen to be standard text (not EVERY line can be humorous) to the English dub's changed dialog. Or maybe you just don't like Akira Toriyama's writing style or his humor? Just some ideas. I just find it hard to believe that Funimation could ever enhance anything with "Dragon Ball" in the titel...
Toriyama didn’t write the script for Super.

That and some times the original script is just dry. Like look at the sub of Yu Yu Hakusho, especially the original manga. There’s a reason why many, even some sub watchers, perfer the dub.
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Re: I'm done with the dub

Post by PremiumSalt » Wed Mar 20, 2019 7:18 pm

Artorias wrote:
Tue Mar 19, 2019 11:36 am
And to be honest, I don't mean to go full weeb or anything, but the very concept of a dub seems outdated and mostly pointless nowadays.
I guess dyslexic people shouldn't be able to watch anime? :eh: A close friend of mine is dyslexic, she loves anime and wouldn't be able to watch any of it if it weren't for dubs. Not everyone can read their shows, dude.
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Re: I'm done with the dub

Post by linkdude20002001 » Wed Mar 20, 2019 10:20 pm

What if the subtitles are written in the Dislexie font?

HeroR wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 4:23 pm
Toriyama didn’t write the script for Super.

That and some times the original script is just dry. Like look at the sub of Yu Yu Hakusho, especially the original manga. There’s a reason why many, even some sub watchers, perfer the dub.
I know. But Toei hired professional writers to write a sequel to Dragon Ball, so I’d assume they’d try to copy his style. And they’re professionals, so most likely it would be far better written than a translation could write. I’m just saying it’s a possibility. Unless you’re a native Japanese speaker, you can’t really assume based on a translators writing.
The Many English Dubs of DB, DBZ, and DBGT
Viz Release Censorship Guide

Scsigs: "Y'know, it actually makes sense that they waited till today to announce [the 30th Anniversary] set. It's Akira Toriyama's birthday."
Shaddy: "I too want my legacy destroyed as a birthday gift."

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Re: I'm done with the dub

Post by HeroR » Wed Mar 20, 2019 11:55 pm

linkdude20002001 wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 10:20 pm
What if the subtitles are written in the Dislexie font?

HeroR wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 4:23 pm
Toriyama didn’t write the script for Super.

That and some times the original script is just dry. Like look at the sub of Yu Yu Hakusho, especially the original manga. There’s a reason why many, even some sub watchers, perfer the dub.
I know. But Toei hired professional writers to write a sequel to Dragon Ball, so I’d assume they’d try to copy his style. And they’re professionals, so most likely it would be far better written than a translation could write. I’m just saying it’s a possibility. Unless you’re a native Japanese speaker, you can’t really assume based on a translators writing.
They didn't really copy Toriyama's style of writing. For one, the text is noticeably more 'mature' in places.

Maybe it is the translation, but the fact is some subs and translation even by the professionals are just dry. There is no other way I can explain it.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: I'm done with the dub

Post by Saturnine » Thu Mar 21, 2019 1:58 am

I don't mind Super's dub all that much, though I stopped following it after the Zamasu arc. Sometimes I'm just curious how they'll sord certain lines. And those "atrocious script changes"? Nothing compared to those from their first dub of Z.

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Re: I'm done with the dub

Post by 90sDBZ » Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:08 am

I continue to watch the dub and buy the Blu-rays for a number of reasons.

First of all I want my first experience with Super to be with my favourite cast, who happen to be in their prime right now. I'm also largely in favour of physical media over streaming, so I choose to support it.

Also it took a really long time for Super to be on a legal streaming service in the UK anyway. I wasn't prepared to watch it illegally, and like I said above I wanted the dub cast and a physical release regardless.

I understand why many fans have opted to stream the Japanese version so they don't have to wait for the dub, and I've been tempted to watch it on Crunchyroll UK myself as it's now legally available. But really I just want to be able to enjoy it to the full as I watch it for the first time, so I continue to resist and patiently wait for the home releases. Good things come to those who wait as they say.

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Re: I'm done with the dub

Post by gokaiblue » Fri Mar 22, 2019 2:52 pm

I personally like both the dub and sub for Super, but I will acknowledge that while the dub is very good, it's still not perfect. I would prefer the jokes be toned done slightly but wouldn't mind them playing with the lines to add in some jokes for long time fans (as long as it doesn't detract). The performances are definitely better in the original but only marginally.

In regards to dubs being needed anymore, I feel that unless major broadcasting companies feel that showing subtitled anime won't affect their bottom line and turn off casual viewers, dubs will always be needed. Anime dubs are a standard of the industry at this point, so they're not going anywhere any time soon.
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Re: I'm done with the dub

Post by linkdude20002001 » Sat Mar 23, 2019 12:37 am

HeroR wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 11:55 pm
They didn't really copy Toriyama's style of writing. For one, the text is noticeably more 'mature' in places.

Maybe it is the translation, but the fact is some subs and translation even by the professionals are just dry. There is no other way I can explain it.
You misunderstood. I was trying to say that a professional translator can put out a dry script if that translator isn’t also a professional writer. Which is probably what you’re seeing.
The Many English Dubs of DB, DBZ, and DBGT
Viz Release Censorship Guide

Scsigs: "Y'know, it actually makes sense that they waited till today to announce [the 30th Anniversary] set. It's Akira Toriyama's birthday."
Shaddy: "I too want my legacy destroyed as a birthday gift."

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Re: I'm done with the dub

Post by MKCSTEALTH » Mon Mar 25, 2019 3:12 pm

I grew up with Dragonball during the Toonami days. I to this day still listen to Falcouner tracks for nostalgia, and that still encapsulates my childhood. As an adult, the more I've delved into other anime, the more i've come to appreciate subbed over dubbed. I followed Super while it was being released weekly subbed through VRV, and I've honestly become very attached to the Japanese voice cast. So while I prefer subs now, I still appreciate the work and actors that work in the dubbing. Especially in recent years, the ones that have strived to give us fans in the West a more authentic experience with the shows we love

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Re: I'm done with the dub

Post by Akamay » Mon Mar 25, 2019 4:15 pm

I grew up with the Brazilian dub of Dragon Ball and later on watched DBZ, DB and DBGT dubbed.
Back in the day, there were a bunch of VHS's with subs being sold due to how popular the series was.
As the dub would often get stuck on a certain part for a very long time, I got several of the VHS's with the subs.
For the most part I got used to the original Japanese cast and would usually prefer them over the dub.

The dub and the subs I grew used to watching were very flawed and had a ton of inaccuracies.
Eventually when I started studying Japanese I used the old subs that I had around the house to help me getting used to listening to something in Japanese.
My first experience with the American dub was when the PS2 games first came out. I honestly remember thinking that most of the voices were too similar in terms of delivery and tone, to the point where I ended up giving up on the American release entirely.

Seeing the whole mess going on with Funimation makes me somewhat glad that the voice actors are not nostalgic for me in general given how badly they have been treating the fans from what I've heard about them.The overall impression I get from the American cast is that they feel like they made the characters who they are and that people should treat them as celebrities because of that.
Meanwhile the Japanese cast feels a bit more humble and more willing to join any jokes about the characters they voiced. Even the Brazilian cast feels like they are showing up for cons more for the fun of meeting fans.

Dunno how true my impressions are, but that's just what I see happening as an outsider.

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Re: I'm done with the dub

Post by gokaiblue » Mon Mar 25, 2019 4:54 pm

Depends on the VA. Chris Sabat, Sonny Strait, and Monica Rial definitely love joking around in regards to the characters. Sean Schemmel and others is where it gets a little dicey.
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Re: I'm done with the dub

Post by Akamay » Mon Mar 25, 2019 5:15 pm

Yeah, Sean Schemmel is largely the one member of the cast that everyone seems to view as problematic. But I still feel like the way the American cast does things is somewhat weird. I mean, it is probably something more common in anime cons in the US, but I had never heard about having to pay a fee to get an autograph before. Still, most of the current cast, afaik, are not responsible for the most memorable lines and deliveries that the fans love about the North American dub.

I don't think that the dub is bad and I do appreciate the small touches they have put into the translation. But I do feel like the dub becomes a bit of an issue when it starts doing weird things, such as having character have accents for no obvious reason. It just becomes more distracting since it's something that feel out of place.

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Re: I'm done with the dub

Post by Forte224 » Mon Mar 25, 2019 5:49 pm

I was exclusively an OG FUNi dub fan basically from Toonami's airing of the Cell arc (which was the time I really acknowledged other dubs/languages even existed for Dragon Ball) all the way up until I gave the Kai dub an honest chance around 2014-2015. I realized it was not as awful as I first thought, so I figured maybe it was the same with the Japanese voices. I actually started watching Z over again in Japanese because of this, and after about 20 episodes I have never returned to the dub (unless forced to...thanks to whoever made the Broli movie dub only). To this day, FUNimation still gets enough wrong that it just does not make the cut for me. Like you said, meme line changes in particular are awful. Even worse are line changes that subtly change how we view the character (see: In the Black arc, the difference between the English and Japanese scripts where Trunks reacts towards #18's accusations of being killed by him).

Anyway, the "sub first" mentality for general anime does not seem to be as prevalent as it once was. There are quite a few dub fans these days. And though I am a sub first fan, Dragon Ball in particular is the one anime I urge people to watch in Japanese no matter what, because FUNimation never understood Dragon Ball in the past, and in this day and age when they do understand it (sort of), they still refuse to give it a translation it deserves.

Anyway, enjoy the Japanese version!

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Re: I'm done with the dub

Post by Dbzfan94 » Mon Mar 25, 2019 6:32 pm

gokaiblue wrote:
Mon Mar 25, 2019 4:54 pm
Depends on the VA. Chris Sabat, Sonny Strait, and Monica Rial definitely love joking around in regards to the characters. Sean Schemmel and others is where it gets a little dicey.
Sean definitely loves joking around in regards to Goku.

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Re: I'm done with the dub

Post by gokaiblue » Mon Mar 25, 2019 8:31 pm

Dbzfan94 wrote:
Mon Mar 25, 2019 6:32 pm
gokaiblue wrote:
Mon Mar 25, 2019 4:54 pm
Depends on the VA. Chris Sabat, Sonny Strait, and Monica Rial definitely love joking around in regards to the characters. Sean Schemmel and others is where it gets a little dicey.
Sean definitely loves joking around in regards to Goku.
Good to know. I was trying to remember if he did or not as he's a bit tempermental.
Looking for these rare items/information:

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Dragon Box (any deals would be nice)
Shonen Jumps with Dragon Ball in them

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Re: I'm done with the dub

Post by TheBigBoy » Mon Mar 25, 2019 8:51 pm

Been watching the dub since the old Ocean days. If anything - that's the dub I have nostalgia for. It had loads (and I mean LOADS) of problems, but it always felt much more professional than Funimation's in-house dub. At least for several years. My first thought on watching the Ginyu Assault tape way back in the day was "This sounds CHEAP." As soon as I had access to subbed material, I switched immeidately.

The Kai dub was a huge improvement and kudos to Funimation for recasting some of the voices. I don't think they went far enough though. I know people love them, but I've always felt the weakest links of the in-house Funi dub have been the people who have been there since day one - namely Schemmel and Sabat.

I haven't watched any of the ToP dub yet but I watched through the Goku Black arc and James Marsters really knocked it out of the park with Zamasu. IMO, it really drove home how bad most of the dub voices. Marsters sounded like a professional and Sabat and Schemmel sounded like dumbass cartoon characters. Funi has been dubbing Dragon Ball for over 20 years and I feel like the nicest things I can say about it is "it's improved" or "it's OK.".

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Re: I'm done with the dub

Post by Coola Yagami » Fri Mar 29, 2019 2:57 am

Since the days of 'mondo cool' the dub has always rubbed me the wrong way. It surprised me to see that while Mexico decided to you know...actually translate what the characters were saying, the American version felt they needed to change the music and add American slang and extra jokes for the kids. Kids around the world love Dragonball as is, but Funimation felt American kids would tune out if they didn't 'spice up' the script. It pisses me off sometimes how Funimantion treats some of their other shows like FMA/FMA Brotherhood with seriousness and good acting (and leaving the intros/outros and BGM intact) but continue to treat Dragonball as joke. Granted the acting had gotten way better than the Cell Saga days, but they still have to fuck with the dialogue.

Then how slow they are to catch up is embarrassing, especially nowadays since we have more and more games coming out and those games get released in the states a lot faster than before. So we end up with Beerus appearing in Battle of Z way before Funimation even decided they were gonna dub Battle of Gods, characters like Goku Black and Jiren having their voice actors spoiled by the videogames cause the dub is way behind and even the Broly movie coming out before the Tournament of Power arc ended. For anyone that tries hard to avoid any sort of spoilers and was wondering if Freeza would just die again or whatever at the end of the arc, the Broly movie trailer is already a spoiler by showing him. Hell, Toei coulda done extra trolling and started the movie with flashbacks of how Goku, Freeza and 17 defeated Jiren if they wanted. And let's not get into releasing Dragonball after Z instead of vice versa wasting time with the multiple re-releases of DBZ just because they couldn't dub it right the first time.

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Re: I'm done with the dub

Post by Dbzfan94 » Fri Mar 29, 2019 7:22 pm

Coola Yagami wrote:
Fri Mar 29, 2019 2:57 am
Since the days of 'mondo cool' the dub has always rubbed me the wrong way. It surprised me to see that while Mexico decided to you know...actually translate what the characters were saying, the American version felt they needed to change the music and add American slang and extra jokes for the kids. Kids around the world love Dragonball as is, but Funimation felt American kids would tune out if they didn't 'spice up' the script. It pisses me off sometimes how Funimantion treats some of their other shows like FMA/FMA Brotherhood with seriousness and good acting (and leaving the intros/outros and BGM intact) but continue to treat Dragonball as joke. Granted the acting had gotten way better than the Cell Saga days, but they still have to fuck with the dialogue.

Then how slow they are to catch up is embarrassing, especially nowadays since we have more and more games coming out and those games get released in the states a lot faster than before. So we end up with Beerus appearing in Battle of Z way before Funimation even decided they were gonna dub Battle of Gods, characters like Goku Black and Jiren having their voice actors spoiled by the videogames cause the dub is way behind and even the Broly movie coming out before the Tournament of Power arc ended. For anyone that tries hard to avoid any sort of spoilers and was wondering if Freeza would just die again or whatever at the end of the arc, the Broly movie trailer is already a spoiler by showing him. Hell, Toei coulda done extra trolling and started the movie with flashbacks of how Goku, Freeza and 17 defeated Jiren if they wanted. And let's not get into releasing Dragonball after Z instead of vice versa wasting time with the multiple re-releases of DBZ just because they couldn't dub it right the first time.
Your criticisms of Funimation dubbing DBS late are unfair. It’s not Funimstuons fault Toei didn’t let them dub it until the series was half over

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Re: I'm done with the dub

Post by Coola Yagami » Fri Mar 29, 2019 10:37 pm

Dbzfan94 wrote:
Fri Mar 29, 2019 7:22 pm

Your criticisms of Funimation dubbing DBS late are unfair. It’s not Funimstuons fault Toei didn’t let them dub it until the series was half over
Oh, I had no idea Toei had a hand in that. I'm so used to Funimation dropping the ball as usual I was quick to assume.

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