Spies that Analyze us Fans for the Dragon Ball Room? [Question]

[AnimeNation101]

To cut to the chase, do you think there are some Dragon Ball spies in the overseas community and Japanese community analyzing what the fans are into for coming up with ideas for future shit from the Dragon Ball Room?

For those who dont know what the “Dragon Ball Room” is: https://www.kanzenshuu.com/2016/10/14/s ... e-content/

More info on the Room: https://www.kanzenshuu.com/2017/01/05/y ... kio-iyoku/

So what I'm getting from this is that this DBRoom is a bigger decider in the type of stuff we get from Dragon Ball. Its “future content.” From spin offs like the Yamcha manga, to games like Xenoverse and Fusions, to even the main series with stuff like the Broly movie.

Something else I'm getting is that they are heavily focussed on “optimizing the globally popular Dragon Ball franchise”, with the rest of the West being a big reason we got Broly. Because apparently they think that we only care about big muscled bad guys which is kinda annoying and a stigma i hope the Western DB community can shake off.

I’m wondering if, to get info on what both the overseas community and japan want from future content of Dragon Ball, the Dragon Ball Room has “spies” that hide themselves in the DB community, stalking popular places to talk about DB like on 4chan, DB Reddit’s, Twitter, the YouTube videos and comment sections of popular DB youtubers (heck, apparently Geekdom found out a DBS writer saw his video), and maybe even Kanzenshuu. They could gather info on what the majority of fans are asking for the most and capitalize on that info with games or future plot points in the tv series or movies.

What do you guys think? And how do you feel about it if thats really the case?

[RecolorSaiyan]

I mean Tatsuya Nagamine and Akio Iyoku (Chief of DB Room) have both mentioned Brolys massive western popularity over past few months and I can’t imagine they wouldn’t keep note of what the rest of world likes as the main goal for Toei, Shueisha, Etc is to maximize revenue off the IP so YES

[Cipher]

Guilty.
10c

[Michsi]

I wouldn't call it spying so much as general market research.

However, something like Broly being popular really doesn't require any serious delving into western fandom to recognize so I wouldn't necessarily take that as evidence they pay closer attention to what we say and want.

That they keep their fingers on the pulse is understandable but to think they actually look into what is being said on reddit and such is a bit much. I'd be surprised if they pay attention to something other than Twitter. Not to mention that the memetic nature of the fandom might prove to be a serious problem in figuring out what is really popular and what is only popular as a joke . In a way that applies to Broly as well, because "Z" Broly had been reduced to a meme for the most part and when the movie title got revealed the most common reaction in the western fandom (as well as the Japanese one, from what I could tell) was "Are you kidding me??!!???!!"

That being said:
Hi , DB Room person, if you're reading this, please involve more characters than just Goku and Vegeta in your stories. Thanks so much! Have a nice day!

[emperior]

As Michsi said, it’s not spying but researching stuff. And as he also said, it doesn’t take a market research to know that Broly is very popular oversea.
I doubt that DB Room people browse forums such as Kanzenshuu to try and see what the fans want.
They probably have a general idea from how much some toys sell over the others, or how popular some characters are based off the success of their release on video games such as FighterZ, Xenoverse, Dokkan Battle and Legends.

We also know for sure that they are well aware of Takahashi’s popularity, which is why he was a supervisor on Broly and why Shintani left his art untouched (as far as I know). That’s probably due to their twitter account getting higher numbers when they released preview pictures of the episodes Takahashi was supervising, and most likely they saw plenty of comments by the fans about how much they loved Takahashi’s artstyle.

So I would say that probably they research stuff on Twitter and gauge popularity based on hashtags, numbers of likes, retweets etcetera.

[Tai Lung]

I think it's better if it's from the foreign media because there's a variety of opinions.

[Chuquita]

Feedback is important, but fandoms aren't monoliths and lately I've been wondering if the Dragon Room is only listening to the loudest voices in regards to the Brolli movie. It wasn't bad, the visuals were beautiful, but I would've liked something with more plot, adventure, and dialogue in addition to the action. I don't think a movie has to be straight action to be accessible, and while I like new!Brolli, I can't help wonder what other movies we may have gotten in its place if they hadn't gone for the low hanging fruit of fourth animated Brolli movie (fifth overall if you count that cgi theme park one).

I guess I'm also spoiled by Toei's One Piece movies where we do get adventure, more plot, and more dialogue. It's because I know they can do it that I'm frustrated.

I'm even a fan of Gokû and Vegeta together and even I haven't found much enjoyment out of SDBH, the current Moro manga arc, even in the Brolli movie they didn't really interact as much as I thought they would with each other going in.

[TobyS]

Yo spies if you are reading this bring back Yamcha! More Yamcha, Tenshinhan and Chaozu and Piccolo!

Saiyans are soooo boooooring. Over saturated with saiyans!

[Rakurai]

Toei, Funimation, Bandai, and Viz likely only use Twitter and reddit, two of the biggest Western platforms, to gauge the interest of fans and their demands. Then they report that stuff back to HQ or the DB room.

Toei JP, Shueisha, and Bandai JP likely only pay attention to JP fans through their biggest platforms such as LINE and Twitter. Maybe YouTube too. I like to believe that fanart likes and retweets also represent a current trend or popularity of certain characters. I've been wondering why SSJ4 characters have been getting so much focus and saturation lately in SDBH (though I certainly don't mind it) and this theory would fit it.

It's obvious that they look at the main source of their sales too.

Anything else like fan forums are niche. Not worth paying attention to.

[AnimeNation101]

Feedback is important, but fandoms aren't monoliths and lately I've been wondering if the Dragon Room is only listening to the loudest voices in regards to the Brolli movie. It wasn't bad, the visuals were beautiful, but I would've liked something with more plot, adventure, and dialogue in addition to the action. I don't think a movie has to be straight action to be accessible, and while I like new!Brolli, I can't help wonder what other movies we may have gotten in its place if they hadn't gone for the low hanging fruit of fourth animated Brolli movie (fifth overall if you count that cgi theme park one).

I guess I'm also spoiled by Toei's One Piece movies where we do get adventure, more plot, and more dialogue. It's because I know they can do it that I'm frustrated.

I'm even a fan of Gokû and Vegeta together and even I haven't found much enjoyment out of SDBH, the current Moro manga arc, even in the Brolli movie they didn't really interact as much as I thought they would with each other going in.

As for One Piece having movies with more adventure and dialogue, etc, i think that comes down to the fact that thats what One Piece has always been and thats what the fandom expects.

I ALSO wish we could get the same for Dragon ball. As i always say, the hype behind a battle in anime depends on their context or reason behind it, the characters involved, and how good it looks. In stories, whether it be from movies or even video games, plot is probably number one for me. More than action or gameplay of a game.

So this whole idea is partially me hoping that Shueisha and co. notice that many of the Western fans DO care about story. Also, I'm kind of hoping they see how many fans want the same kind of arcs like Jiren’s Evil-doer stuff, Yamoshi stuff, Zalama stuff, Planet Sadala stuff, etc.

I guess we can only wait until DBS comes back to see if the shit this fandom talks about wanting somehow gets incorporated into it.

[AnimeNation101]

Toei, Funimation, Bandai, and Viz likely only use Twitter and reddit, two of the biggest Western platforms, to gauge the interest of fans and their demands. Then they report that stuff back to HQ or the DB room.

Toei JP, Shueisha, and Bandai JP likely only pay attention to JP fans through their biggest platforms such as LINE and Twitter. Maybe YouTube too. I like to believe that fanart likes and retweets also represent a current trend or popularity of certain characters. I've been wondering why SSJ4 characters have been getting so much focus and saturation lately in SDBH (though I certainly don't mind it) and this theory would fit it.

It's obvious that they look at the main source of their sales too.

Anything else like fan forums are niche. Not worth paying attention to.

I’d agree but Kanzenshuu has a good amount of people. About 12,000. Nothing compared to the DBZ reddit but eh. Imo, it is one of the easiest places to gather DB fan statistics anyway.

But yeah, Twitter, Reddit, and Youtube would def be the top 3 places they would have spies for the West. For JP, you only mentioned LINE and Twitter. Is 2chan (which is now 5chan) not as popular as i thought in Japan?

[Rakurai]

I’d agree but Kanzenshuu has a good amount of people. About 12,000. Nothing compared to the DBZ reddit but eh. Imo, it is one of the easiest places to gather DB fan statistics anyway.

But yeah, Twitter, Reddit, and Youtube would def be the top 3 places they would have spies for the West. For JP, you only mentioned LINE and Twitter. Is 2chan (which is now 5chan) not as popular as i thought in Japan?

Not sure about 2chan but from what I've heard it's more memey and less concentrated in specific topics like 4chan. Not really a good place to properly research the interests of fans who truly enjoy and consume the series.

Didn't realize Kanzenshuu was this big. It certainly doesn't feel like it lol. I recall asking Mike on a reddit AMA (since then I've stopped using reddit for DB) about whether official companies have gotten in touch with them and they haven't. Now that doesn't really mean anything, but I know some companies have gotten in touch with big name YouTubers before so...

I don't know if there is a way to do this for the West. But certainly fan mail is a viable way to get word out to the content creator. Toriyama used to get a lot of fan mail, other mangakas still do, but does Toyotarou get any fan mail? I'm sure he must in JP at least. It would help him understand what fans generally like and dislike whenever he publishes a new chapter.

[AnimeNation101]

I’d agree but Kanzenshuu has a good amount of people. About 12,000. Nothing compared to the DBZ reddit but eh. Imo, it is one of the easiest places to gather DB fan statistics anyway.

But yeah, Twitter, Reddit, and Youtube would def be the top 3 places they would have spies for the West. For JP, you only mentioned LINE and Twitter. Is 2chan (which is now 5chan) not as popular as i thought in Japan?

Not sure about 2chan but from what I've heard it's more memey and less concentrated in specific topics like 4chan. Not really a good place to properly research the interests of fans who truly enjoy and consume the series.

Didn't realize Kanzenshuu was this big. It certainly doesn't feel like it lol. I recall asking Mike on a reddit AMA (since then I've stopped using reddit for DB) about whether official companies have gotten in touch with them and they haven't. Now that doesn't really mean anything, but I know some companies have gotten in touch with big name YouTubers before so...

I don't know if there is a way to do this for the West. But certainly fan mail is a viable way to get word out to the content creator. Toriyama used to get a lot of fan mail, other mangakas still do, but does Toyotarou get any fan mail? I'm sure he must in JP at least. It would help him understand what fans generally like and dislike whenever he publishes a new chapter.

Being how Toyo was basically a fanboy of DB to the point where he made his own DB AF, i wouldn’t be surprised if he lurks in japanese web forums for DB and maybe even sees how people have viewed his chapters. If he actually does, i kinda feel sorry for him considering a lot of the shit people give him. But hey, this arc has been more praised than bashed so far.

But yeah, i feel like out of Toriyama, Toei, Shueisha, Bandai Namco, and Toyotaro, Toyotaro is the most connected to the fans.

[DainIronfoot]

I'm almost positive there are. In fact, I've seen a few people here and there that seem like they are, making comments on Geekdom's tweets etc.


With how Toei seems to now somewhat understand how big DB is outside of Japan, I really wouldn't be surprised if they're secretly looking around.

[Rakurai]

Being how Toyo was basically a fanboy of DB to the point where he made his own DB AF, i wouldn’t be surprised if he lurks in japanese web forums for DB and maybe even sees how people have viewed his chapters. If he actually does, i kinda feel sorry for him considering a lot of the shit people give him. But hey, this arc has been more praised than bashed so far.

But yeah, i feel like out of Toriyama, Toei, Shueisha, Bandai Namco, and Toyotaro, Toyotaro is the most connected to the fans.

There's no need to feel sorry. The DBS manga is doing well in sales and the fact that he's continuing monthly serialization in V-Jump after the ToP indicates his position is not in jeopardy anytime soon.

I really doubt Toyotarou uses other social platforms aside from LINE, Twitter, and Instagram to communicate or look at fan reception. Forums aren't that huge from what I gather in Japan. Most take to Twitter. Though he might listen to fan feedback based on customer reviews and rankings on sites like Anikore. Hard to say.

However, I'm sure he's aware of the backlash around his more controversial chapters, and every now and then I see a JP Twitter criticize his art, panelling, story, etc. in terms of DBS. Then there were the French fans going after him in one of his Twitter posts when the "UI" Roshi chapter was released - though of course, most of them apologized on behalf of the haters and reported those who personally went after Toyo.

In general, it's very difficult to be a mangaka who's carrying on one of the most popular global franchises, because he's under a lot of scrutiny. Nagayama and Ooshi, both whom also do DB spinoffs, are hardly known in the grand scheme of things and they certainly have their fair share of flaws, perhaps more so than Toyotarou. But they don't have to worry as much about social media and I don't see a lot of flak for them in comparison to Toyotarou. If I were him, I would ignore most individual fan demands and only focus on the bigger picture at hand - how the audience as a whole reacts to his work, and what his sales are. His best advice would probably come from his editors and Toriyama in the first place.

[AnimeNation101]

Being how Toyo was basically a fanboy of DB to the point where he made his own DB AF, i wouldn’t be surprised if he lurks in japanese web forums for DB and maybe even sees how people have viewed his chapters. If he actually does, i kinda feel sorry for him considering a lot of the shit people give him. But hey, this arc has been more praised than bashed so far.

But yeah, i feel like out of Toriyama, Toei, Shueisha, Bandai Namco, and Toyotaro, Toyotaro is the most connected to the fans.

There's no need to feel sorry. The DBS manga is doing well in sales and the fact that he's continuing monthly serialization in V-Jump after the ToP indicates his position is not in jeopardy anytime soon.

I really doubt Toyotarou uses other social platforms aside from LINE, Twitter, and Instagram to communicate or look at fan reception. Forums aren't that huge from what I gather in Japan. Most take to Twitter. Though he might listen to fan feedback based on customer reviews and rankings on sites like Anikore. Hard to say.

However, I'm sure he's aware of the backlash around his more controversial chapters, and every now and then I see a JP Twitter criticize his art, panelling, story, etc. in terms of DBS. Then there were the French fans going after him in one of his Twitter posts when the "UI" Roshi chapter was released - though of course, most of them apologized on behalf of the haters and reported those who personally went after Toyo.

In general, it's very difficult to be a mangaka who's carrying on one of the most popular global franchises, because he's under a lot of scrutiny. Nagayama and Ooshi, both whom also do DB spinoffs, are hardly known in the grand scheme of things and they certainly have their fair share of flaws, perhaps more so than Toyotarou. But they don't have to worry as much about social media and I don't see a lot of flak for them in comparison to Toyotarou. If I were him, I would ignore most individual fan demands and only focus on the bigger picture at hand - how the audience as a whole reacts to his work, and what his sales are. His best advice would probably come from his editors and Toriyama in the first place.

Well, i can say that we’ve slowly been seeing improvements.

2 main criticisms of Toyo were that he had to many panels on a page and his action angles were too basic.

I can safely say that he’s improved on his paneling and (while he still uses basic angles like the 2d fighter/side-scroller game type of angle) he’s improved on his action angles. Although, to this day, his FT action work has been my favorite and i hope he can bring more wild stuff to the table this arc.

I hope he can fix his problems with body anatomy of characters (although i guess that just improves with practice and experience) and hope he can solve his problem of using to many reaction shots. And while it may or may not be in his control depending, maybe who he uses in his stories (since a huge complaint about Super in general is that its always Goku and Vegeta).

Nevertheless, i do hope Toyo takes the good criticism to heart.

[Rakurai]

Well, i can say that we’ve slowly been seeing improvements.

2 main criticisms of Toyo were that he had to many panels on a page and his action angles were too basic.

I can safely say that he’s improved on his paneling and (while he still uses basic angles like the 2d fighter/side-scroller game type of angle) he’s improved on his action angles. Although, to this day, his FT action work has been my favorite and i hope he can bring more wild stuff to the table this arc.

I hope he can fix his problems with body anatomy of characters (although i guess that just improves with practice and experience) and hope he can solve his problem of using to many reaction shots. And while it may or may not be in his control depending, maybe who he uses in his stories (since a huge complaint about Super in general is that its always Goku and Vegeta).

Nevertheless, i do hope Toyo takes the good criticism to heart.

I'm not really critical of the body anatomy tbh. Plenty of good mangaka screw up the body anatomy much worse, and Toyotarou's anatomy errors tend to be very subtle or minimal. It's mainly balanced by how clean his art looks. But for a manga like DB, looking clean is not always a positive. Being rougher on the art gives the action more flair, vitality, and motion (I think that's something Toriyama might've suggested to him once?). One really good example is Naruto. Kishimoto was pretty rough and raw early on, but by god if it didn't feel good. Then his artstyle considerably improved, but at the same time his battle scenes became a lot more boring.

One of the more recent criticisms I read is pretty interesting. Has to do with Vegeta's Galick Gun pose in the latest DBS chapter.

https://mobile.twitter.com/kamesenryugo ... 2118990848

Basically, the way Toyo drew it made it look weak because the arms and fingers were bent. The way Toriyama initially drew it had his arms outstretched and fingers pointed, so you could easily understand Vegeta was giving it his all and being 'serious' with only one panel. I have some remarks about the way he judged it but I can tell where he's coming from. Still, this is the level of scrutiny he's receiving, especially when being compared to Toriyama. It can be mentally stressful and play mind games with you.

If Toyotarou is taking criticism, I think he should be doing it from people who are in the same field as he, like other fellow mangakas and especially Toriyama. Paying attention to fans' nitpicks would be too much and too varied to take in as much as we would like for him to hear us.

[PFM18]

Yo spies if you are reading this bring back Yamcha! More Yamcha, Tenshinhan and Chaozu and Piccolo!

Saiyans are soooo boooooring. Over saturated with saiyans!

How exactly would one go about bringing Yamcha back?

"Saiyan" is not it's' own archetype! It is a race!

[TobyS]

Yo spies if you are reading this bring back Yamcha! More Yamcha, Tenshinhan and Chaozu and Piccolo!

Saiyans are soooo boooooring. Over saturated with saiyans!

How exactly would one go about bringing Yamcha back?

"Saiyan" is not it's' own archetype! It is a race!

Time breaker humans who break the control but keep the power up. Would be my choice.

[Raimundo]

Feedback is important, but fandoms aren't monoliths and lately I've been wondering if the Dragon Room is only listening to the loudest voices in regards to the Brolli movie. It wasn't bad, the visuals were beautiful, but I would've liked something with more plot, adventure, and dialogue in addition to the action. I don't think a movie has to be straight action to be accessible, and while I like new!Brolli, I can't help wonder what other movies we may have gotten in its place if they hadn't gone for the low hanging fruit of fourth animated Brolli movie (fifth overall if you count that cgi theme park one).

I guess I'm also spoiled by Toei's One Piece movies where we do get adventure, more plot, and more dialogue. It's because I know they can do it that I'm frustrated.

I'm even a fan of Gokû and Vegeta together and even I haven't found much enjoyment out of SDBH, the current Moro manga arc, even in the Brolli movie they didn't really interact as much as I thought they would with each other going in.

Personally I’m kind of glad. Theair interactions have gotten pretty boring to me. It’s the same thing most of the time.