When Will We Ever Get Out of the Boo Fight - End of Z Rift?!

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When Will We Ever Get Out of the Boo Fight - End of Z Rift?!

Post by superfan2024 » Sat Mar 23, 2019 2:45 pm

I know this question has been brought up time and time again, but now it's starting to seem like there's just no way we're going to get out of the storylines in-between the Majin Boo battle and the 28th Tenkaichi Budokai where Goku meets Oob for the first time.

We've had so many stories take place during this time, and each consecutive story after another story just continues to make me believe that we're never going to reach the End of Z (28th Tenkaichi Budokai) and beyond. So far, we've gotten: the discovery of Beerus, Freeza's return, the fight against Universe 6, Zamasu's attack, the Tournament of Power (including the return of Freeza again!), the discovery of Broly, and now Moro. So many stories, but would it ever kill them to go past EoZ?

I like Dragon Ball, and you like Dragon Ball, but I can't say that things haven't started becoming a little repetitive, especially regarding Goku and Vegeta. And I think these repetitive plot-points are mostly caused by the harm of having no new stories past this rift. It's like we're stuck in this time continuum and we can't get out.

Before Broly (or even a new movie) was announced, I thought the Tournament of Power would be the final stretch of being stuck in this warp. The tournament (albeit the mess that it was) felt like some sort of concluding story (well, it kinda did conclude Super's first anime). We've even had mentions of Oob both in the anime and manga of the ToP arc, and I thought that was meant to signify upcoming events in let's suppose, the arc after that. But nope, we're back to our regularly scheduled chaos.

The introduction to new these new Gods and Angels starting with Beerus got me hooked because we were meeting an abundance of new characters, but now I just don't feel that same momentum anymore, especially after the somewhat disappointing product the ToP was. I think things would feel way more fresh if we just get past the point of Goku meeting Oob, and to those who are concerned, I have faith we won't get another GT on our hands because Toriyama is with us, and Toei most likely has learned their lesson by now.

All in all, what's holding them back from allowing us to get out of this rift?

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Re: When Will We Ever Get Out of the Boo Fight - End of Z Rift?!

Post by Raimundo » Sat Mar 23, 2019 6:27 pm

I hope we do. I’m ready to move on beyond EoZ

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Re: When Will We Ever Get Out of the Boo Fight - End of Z Rift?!

Post by Bullza » Sat Mar 23, 2019 7:35 pm

What difference does it make? It'd be pretty much the exact same either way except Pan Gotenks and Trunks would be a little older... probably still useless and we'd have Uub.

That's about it.

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Re: When Will We Ever Get Out of the Boo Fight - End of Z Rift?!

Post by ShaggyBlanco » Sat Mar 23, 2019 9:11 pm

Bullza wrote:
Sat Mar 23, 2019 7:35 pm
What difference does it make? It'd be pretty much the exact same either way except Pan Gotenks and Trunks would be a little older... probably still useless and we'd have Uub.

That's about it.
Imo, besides giving the kids cooler designs, it would make things have more meaning since we wouldn't know how everything ends, not really for deaths of course but stuff like Goku and Vegeta's relationship, we know it won't evolve to anything different since according to the EoZ Vegeta is still chasing him
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Re: When Will We Ever Get Out of the Boo Fight - End of Z Rift?!

Post by Lionel » Sun Mar 24, 2019 4:00 am

Yeah, in terms of characterisation and aesthetics it's remained the same throughout the entirety of Super's run. Question is, if they do decide to go past EoZ, where do they take it from there? If they continue with the same stale formula except with older faces then what difference will there be? I think some things would need to change for this time-shift to have any substantial meaning. One of the most obvious would be taking some inspiration from the early days of Dragon Ball Z and allowing for a greater array of characters to be tangibly involved with the conflict; minus the over-dependency on Goku, of course.

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Re: When Will We Ever Get Out of the Boo Fight - End of Z Rift?!

Post by emperior » Sun Mar 24, 2019 5:31 am

I completely agree with you.
This time period has gotten stale. There’s little sense of progression, as everything goes back to the status quo at the end of each arc. The stories are all crammed one after another because they need to fit in the 10 years between Buu and Uub, which is why it feels like there’s no room to breathe between one story and another.

I miss the time when the story was going forward with the years and we saw the characters changing physically, getting new outfits etcetera. Going after EoZ would make things much more interesting: we could finally see Goten and Trunks as grown ups, we could follow the growth of Pan, Bra, Marron and Uub and we could finally get the feeling of something fresh, new and unexplored, which would in turn up the stakes and tension.

I hope that eventually Toriyama will decide to give us stories set after the end of his manga but with how things are going, I wouldn’t be surprised if Super ends with a story set shortly before the 28th Budokai Tenkaichi.
Uub being mentioned in Super both in the anime and manga makes me hopeful that Toriyama was foreshadowing his appearance in Super. Or else, why did he feel like bringing him up?

(And the excuse of “everyone being old” doesn’t hold up. Tights is much older than Bulma yet she looks as old as she is, so it wouldn’t be too hard to get rid of Bulma’s wrinkle or have her wishing herself younger as she wanted to do in Broly.
Krillin is basically retired so if he has some white hair it’s not changing things for him. Same for Tenshinan and Yamcha. Actually, them being older could be interesting to see.)
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Re: When Will We Ever Get Out of the Boo Fight - End of Z Rift?!

Post by Dragon Ball Ireland » Sun Mar 24, 2019 6:36 am

I could honestly see Super staying in this time gap well into the second run, especially at the beginning because TOEI will want to pick up steam after a long break with what has worked for them. And it has worked very well. The first run has shown us that the show's main priority is to milk the nostalgia of this franchise for all its worth, that includes keeping characters the way we remember them (same gi, same ages, etc) even though it contradicts established continuity. Obviously narratively it makes little sense but from a business perspective it is a safe and proven strategy as we've seen from the ratings thus far and Broly's box office. As to whether we will ever get out of this time gap, eventually I do think we will but it will take some time.
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Re: When Will We Ever Get Out of the Boo Fight - End of Z Rift?!

Post by Spencer_23 » Sun Mar 24, 2019 10:18 am

I’m with you OP. Hopefully relatively soon, I’m fine with a couple more arcs within this timeframe but would be nice to get a more fresh new era

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Re: When Will We Ever Get Out of the Boo Fight - End of Z Rift?!

Post by superfan2024 » Sun Mar 24, 2019 10:34 am

Bullza wrote:
Sat Mar 23, 2019 7:35 pm
What difference does it make? It'd be pretty much the exact same either way except Pan Gotenks and Trunks would be a little older... probably still useless and we'd have Uub.

That's about it.
I somewhat disagree. If we get past this rift, there is the possibility we might get some new main characters that can actually provide some relevancy compared to Goku and Vegeta. The ToP and EoZ somewhat signified that the rest of the Dragon Team was pretty much done with fighting, so new characters added to the mix would be fresh and nice. That obviously includes Oob, and the potential for Pan and Bra to shine regardless of how they get treated afterwards. I just want some fresh air to this series!

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Re: When Will We Ever Get Out of the Boo Fight - End of Z Rift?!

Post by louisascommie » Sun Mar 24, 2019 11:39 am

Lionel wrote:
Sun Mar 24, 2019 4:00 am
Yeah, in terms of characterisation and aesthetics it's remained the same throughout the entirety of Super's run. Question is, if they do decide to go past EoZ, where do they take it from there? If they continue with the same stale formula except with older faces then what difference will there be? I think some things would need to change for this time-shift to have any substantial meaning. One of the most obvious would be taking some inspiration from the early days of Dragon Ball Z and allowing for a greater array of characters to be tangibly involved with the conflict; minus the over-dependency on Goku, of course.
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Re: When Will We Ever Get Out of the Boo Fight - End of Z Rift?!

Post by SupremeKai25 » Sun Mar 24, 2019 12:49 pm

One thing that Dragon Ball Z did right in my opinion were the timeskips between major arcs. Like the 7 years timeskip after Perfect Cell. This allowed the writers to be creative and think of new directions for the main characters. I would be in favour of a timeskip when Super returns, but personally I think it would have been better if there was one after the defeat of Fused Zamasu, as he had that sort of "final boss" feel to him that would have made for a perfect final antagonist to the "first season" of Super.

I do think that the pacing of Super is kind of ridiculous. I mean, in Z there were several years of peace between the main arcs, while in Super there are a few months at best. Having so many major threats close to each other is ridiculous.
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Re: When Will We Ever Get Out of the Boo Fight - End of Z Rift?!

Post by Raimundo » Sun Mar 24, 2019 2:42 pm

Lionel wrote:
Sun Mar 24, 2019 4:00 am
Yeah, in terms of characterisation and aesthetics it's remained the same throughout the entirety of Super's run. Question is, if they do decide to go past EoZ, where do they take it from there? If they continue with the same stale formula except with older faces then what difference will there be? I think some things would need to change for this time-shift to have any substantial meaning. One of the most obvious would be taking some inspiration from the early days of Dragon Ball Z and allowing for a greater array of characters to be tangibly involved with the conflict; minus the over-dependency on Goku, of course.
Those days were overly dependent on Goku too though. The only difference is, he was taken out of the way so that his friends could fail to make him look even greater when he returned. Namek and Cell saga gave a bit more for them to do but by the time the Ginyu Force showed up they were reduced to being there to make Goku look good again, and in the case of Cell, they had zero hopes of succeeding until Goku waking up from a 10 day coma suggested the Rosat, an option the humans and Piccolo don’t even think about despite them all knowing about it.

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Re: When Will We Ever Get Out of the Boo Fight - End of Z Rift?!

Post by GodVegetto91 » Sun Mar 24, 2019 4:12 pm

Bullza wrote:
Sat Mar 23, 2019 7:35 pm
What difference does it make? It'd be pretty much the exact same either way except Pan Gotenks and Trunks would be a little older... probably still useless and we'd have Uub.

That's about it.
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Re: When Will We Ever Get Out of the Boo Fight - End of Z Rift?!

Post by Grimlock » Sun Mar 24, 2019 4:16 pm

I also don't see why people appreciate that years can go by and the characters don't age. What's the fun of it? Is it somehow interesting?

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Re: When Will We Ever Get Out of the Boo Fight - End of Z Rift?!

Post by JohnnyCashKami » Sun Mar 24, 2019 4:52 pm

I agree. It's pretty boring that Son Goten and Trunks are still kids even though they were like teens at EoZ and on GT.

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Re: When Will We Ever Get Out of the Boo Fight - End of Z Rift?!

Post by BWri » Mon Mar 25, 2019 1:40 am

Dragon Ball Ireland wrote:
Sun Mar 24, 2019 6:36 am
I could honestly see Super staying in this time gap well into the second run, especially at the beginning because TOEI will want to pick up steam after a long break with what has worked for them. And it has worked very well. The first run has shown us that the show's main priority is to milk the nostalgia of this franchise for all its worth, that includes keeping characters the way we remember them (same gi, same ages, etc) even though it contradicts established continuity. Obviously narratively it makes little sense but from a business perspective it is a safe and proven strategy as we've seen from the ratings thus far and Broly's box office. As to whether we will ever get out of this time gap, eventually I do think we will but it will take some time.
Yeah, I think you nailed it 100% here. They'll milk the current era until it loses steam and then they'll freshen up the franchise with post End of Z content.
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Re: When Will We Ever Get Out of the Boo Fight - End of Z Rift?!

Post by Goten_jr » Mon Mar 25, 2019 9:28 am

I think this is One of the reasons why we will never go past the eoz
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Re: When Will We Ever Get Out of the Boo Fight - End of Z Rift?!

Post by louisascommie » Mon Mar 25, 2019 12:00 pm

Goten_jr wrote:
Mon Mar 25, 2019 9:28 am
I think this is One of the reasons why we will never go past the eoz
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Re: When Will We Ever Get Out of the Boo Fight - End of Z Rift?!

Post by Lionel » Mon Mar 25, 2019 12:55 pm

Raimundo wrote:
Sun Mar 24, 2019 2:42 pm
Lionel wrote:
Sun Mar 24, 2019 4:00 am
Yeah, in terms of characterisation and aesthetics it's remained the same throughout the entirety of Super's run. Question is, if they do decide to go past EoZ, where do they take it from there? If they continue with the same stale formula except with older faces then what difference will there be? I think some things would need to change for this time-shift to have any substantial meaning. One of the most obvious would be taking some inspiration from the early days of Dragon Ball Z and allowing for a greater array of characters to be tangibly involved with the conflict; minus the over-dependency on Goku, of course.
Those days were overly dependent on Goku too though. The only difference is, he was taken out of the way so that his friends could fail to make him look even greater when he returned. Namek and Cell saga gave a bit more for them to do but by the time the Ginyu Force showed up they were reduced to being there to make Goku look good again, and in the case of Cell, they had zero hopes of succeeding until Goku waking up from a 10 day coma suggested the Rosat, an option the humans and Piccolo don’t even think about despite them all knowing about it.
I did give a stipulative acknowledgement to that. When I think of a broader, more all-encompassing involvement one thing that comes to mind is the Vegeta fight where everyone played a significant tangible role. Characters shouldn't be deprived of their initiative just to accommodate for the position Goku has. When having to do that, it seems artificial and tawdry. Toriyama doesn't even bother to allow his characters to properly utilise every resource the story has given them. If he did, he would have a much more difficult time justifying certain failures or event executions because someone like Piccolo could just use the Mafuba to seal away the opponent or Krillin could attempt to use the Kienzan, provided the enemy doesn't regenerate. Super has actually gone to some lengths in trying to rectify this problem, but there's still a lot to be desired.

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Re: When Will We Ever Get Out of the Boo Fight - End of Z Rift?!

Post by Skar » Mon Mar 25, 2019 11:53 pm

superfan2024 wrote:
Sat Mar 23, 2019 2:45 pm
All in all, what's holding them back from allowing us to get out of this rift?
I don't think there's holding them back and it's just Toriyama not wanting to go past EoZ. When BoG was released, Toriyama mentioned he chose this time period because the "characters were too old" after the ending. There was also interview with Toriyama around 2016 saying that he made changes for the Kanzenban release to show that it was truly the end of Goku's journey or something like that.

I think he intends for DBS to remain entirely an interquel between the Buu saga and EoZ. After each saga of DBS, we have fans speculated that the next one will finally jump ahead past EoZ but it becomes more unlikely with every passing saga. BoG, RoF, U6 vs U7, Zamasu, the ToP, Broly, and Moro all take place within the span of around two years in-universe which is almost as many sagas as the entire original series. DB/Z covered Goku's training and growth from age 12 to age 47 while DBS only covers a small part of his life from age 41 to age 43. In my opinion, Toriyama might be trying to cram in as much content into these last few years left in the time skip before ending the series for good and retiring.

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