I really like your way of thinking about this. This is probably the single best way to view the content without too many contradictions flowing in.ruler9871 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 16, 2019 5:22 pm Literally everything made by Toriyama, Toei and Shueisha is canon. Only stuff like DB Evolution (which was not made by either of these 3) is non-canon.
The real question is which media belongs to which continuity. And the way I say it, there are 4 official major continuities in the franchise:
1. Jaco/DB Minus -> Original Manga -> DBS Manga
2. Bardock FoG -> Early DB anime -> DBZ (90s TV series, including all filler) -> DBGT
3. Early DB Anime -> DB Kai -> DBS Anime.
4. DB Heroes (where literally everything from all DB anime/manga/video games is canon). Plus, it has its own unique timelines with the "Xeno" characters.
The DBS Broly film is canon to #1, 3 & 4, and The History of Trunks special is canon to #2 & 4.
The 13 Z movies each form about 4 different continuities among themselves.
DB Online seems to have been completely retconned away from history, since it contradicts Super (both versions) and has been completely overridden by Xenoverse. The same can be said for the BoG and RoF movies, being overridden by their DBS adaptions.
What's canon?
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Re: What's canon?
- Tylerman29
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Re: What's canon?
#3 is my preferred way of looking at the series now with everything else being nostalgia trip or what-if/side stories. Although Kai still seems to take the Bardock special as canon so I guess you just have to close your eyes for the Kai prologue and TFC hell scenes....nato25 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:24 pmI really like your way of thinking about this. This is probably the single best way to view the content without too many contradictions flowing in.ruler9871 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 16, 2019 5:22 pm Literally everything made by Toriyama, Toei and Shueisha is canon. Only stuff like DB Evolution (which was not made by either of these 3) is non-canon.
The real question is which media belongs to which continuity. And the way I say it, there are 4 official major continuities in the franchise:
1. Jaco/DB Minus -> Original Manga -> DBS Manga
2. Bardock FoG -> Early DB anime -> DBZ (90s TV series, including all filler) -> DBGT
3. Early DB Anime -> DB Kai -> DBS Anime.
4. DB Heroes (where literally everything from all DB anime/manga/video games is canon). Plus, it has its own unique timelines with the "Xeno" characters.
The DBS Broly film is canon to #1, 3 & 4, and The History of Trunks special is canon to #2 & 4.
The 13 Z movies each form about 4 different continuities among themselves.
DB Online seems to have been completely retconned away from history, since it contradicts Super (both versions) and has been completely overridden by Xenoverse. The same can be said for the BoG and RoF movies, being overridden by their DBS adaptions.
Also why exactly does the trunks special not fit with Kai? It might be a dumb question but I seem to be missing something obvious.
DB, Z, and GT subbed are my "canon".
SSJ4 > Any transformation in Super.
SSJ4 > Any transformation in Super.
- AnimeNation101
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Re: What's canon?
Dragon ball Super anime is canon.
Dragon Ball Super manga is canon.
DBS: Broly is canon until it is retconned by a possible retelling when DBS comes back provided that said retelling is from Toriyama or has added things from Toriyama.
Dragon Ball Super manga is canon.
DBS: Broly is canon until it is retconned by a possible retelling when DBS comes back provided that said retelling is from Toriyama or has added things from Toriyama.
I called it that Gogeta, Bardock, and something Broly related would be in the movie before it was even announced that it was a Broly movie.
"I don't think I'm a hero of justice or anythin'. But those who'd hurt my friends... I won't forgive!"
"I don't think I'm a hero of justice or anythin'. But those who'd hurt my friends... I won't forgive!"
Re: What's canon?
You can fit them within Z's story if you try hard enough (and look past some inconsistencies).
Dead Zone takes place between the 23rd Tenkaichi and the Saiyan arc.
World's strongest, Tree of Might, Lord Slug, Cooler's Revenge, and Return of Cooler take place within the 3 year time skip between Trunks' arrival and the fight between Goku and #19.
Super Android #13 takes place slightly before Goku and Vegeta use the time room.
Broly takes Place before the Cell games.
Bojack Unbound takes place after the Cell games.
Broly's second movie takes place before the 25th Tenkaichi.
Bio Broly was a bad dream Goku had when Vegeta knocked him out.
Fusion Reborn and wrath of the dragon take place after the battle with Kid Buu.
July 9th 2018 will be remembered as the day Broly became canon.
- PsionicWarrior
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Re: What's canon?
The original manga is canon, Jaco and a few specials are canon, Super is canon (all three medias, which is confusing as ****), and that's it. Everyone who tells you otherwise like GT or other similar stuff is wrong, period.
Re: What's canon?
I think we should already be beyond the point of stating our opinion as if it was a fact.
- PsionicWarrior
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Re: What's canon?
Well, I'm still waiting for anyone here to provide the official canon established in this franchise. If it has, I'm pretty sure someone will be able to prove it and post it here.
Re: What's canon?
None of things introduced by BoG, RoF & Super (Hakaishin, Angels God ki, the new transformations, the Multiverse, Galactic Patrol, etc.) are in DB Online.
zarmack wrote:The whole "Dragonball is only supposed to be light and funny" mentality that exist in a lot of the fandom is in many ways even dumber than the "edgeload" side of the fandom. You know, the contrarians who think DB should be a Slice-of-Life series, the folks who worship Pre-Raditz Dragonball uncritically, the folks who downplay and often flat-out deny that Dragonball is an action series, the folks who try to push that false argument that none of the serious moments in the series were mean't to be taken seriously, etc.
Dragonball doesn't have a single tone. It has both silly and serious moments, both humor and drama, just like real life. The idea that a work of fiction should be only all-comedy or all-serious is unnatural and frankly, retarded.
Re: What's canon?
Now that I think of it, The History of Trunks could also fit in #3. It has no contradictions with it.Tylerman29 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:54 pm#3 is my preferred way of looking at the series now with everything else being nostalgia trip or what-if/side stories. Although Kai still seems to take the Bardock special as canon so I guess you just have to close your eyes for the Kai prologue and TFC hell scenes....nato25 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:24 pmI really like your way of thinking about this. This is probably the single best way to view the content without too many contradictions flowing in.ruler9871 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 16, 2019 5:22 pm Literally everything made by Toriyama, Toei and Shueisha is canon. Only stuff like DB Evolution (which was not made by either of these 3) is non-canon.
The real question is which media belongs to which continuity. And the way I say it, there are 4 official major continuities in the franchise:
1. Jaco/DB Minus -> Original Manga -> DBS Manga
2. Bardock FoG -> Early DB anime -> DBZ (90s TV series, including all filler) -> DBGT
3. Early DB Anime -> DB Kai -> DBS Anime.
4. DB Heroes (where literally everything from all DB anime/manga/video games is canon). Plus, it has its own unique timelines with the "Xeno" characters.
The DBS Broly film is canon to #1, 3 & 4, and The History of Trunks special is canon to #2 & 4.
The 13 Z movies each form about 4 different continuities among themselves.
DB Online seems to have been completely retconned away from history, since it contradicts Super (both versions) and has been completely overridden by Xenoverse. The same can be said for the BoG and RoF movies, being overridden by their DBS adaptions.
Also why exactly does the trunks special not fit with Kai? It might be a dumb question but I seem to be missing something obvious.
zarmack wrote:The whole "Dragonball is only supposed to be light and funny" mentality that exist in a lot of the fandom is in many ways even dumber than the "edgeload" side of the fandom. You know, the contrarians who think DB should be a Slice-of-Life series, the folks who worship Pre-Raditz Dragonball uncritically, the folks who downplay and often flat-out deny that Dragonball is an action series, the folks who try to push that false argument that none of the serious moments in the series were mean't to be taken seriously, etc.
Dragonball doesn't have a single tone. It has both silly and serious moments, both humor and drama, just like real life. The idea that a work of fiction should be only all-comedy or all-serious is unnatural and frankly, retarded.
Re: What's canon?
The only Z movie that can fit into the main continuities is Bojack Unbound. Everything else doesn't fit either because of power levels, characters being alive when they shouldn't or both.sintzu wrote: ↑Wed Apr 17, 2019 12:25 amYou can fit them within Z's story if you try hard enough (and look past some inconsistencies).
Dead Zone takes place between the 23rd Tenkaichi and the Saiyan arc.
World's strongest, Tree of Might, Lord Slug, Cooler's Revenge, and Return of Cooler take place within the 3 year time skip between Trunks' arrival and the fight between Goku and #19.
Super Android #13 takes place slightly before Goku and Vegeta use the time room.
Broly takes Place before the Cell games.
Bojack Unbound takes place after the Cell games.
Broly's second movie takes place before the 25th Tenkaichi.
Bio Broly was a bad dream Goku had when Vegeta knocked him out.
Fusion Reborn and wrath of the dragon take place after the battle with Kid Buu.
zarmack wrote:The whole "Dragonball is only supposed to be light and funny" mentality that exist in a lot of the fandom is in many ways even dumber than the "edgeload" side of the fandom. You know, the contrarians who think DB should be a Slice-of-Life series, the folks who worship Pre-Raditz Dragonball uncritically, the folks who downplay and often flat-out deny that Dragonball is an action series, the folks who try to push that false argument that none of the serious moments in the series were mean't to be taken seriously, etc.
Dragonball doesn't have a single tone. It has both silly and serious moments, both humor and drama, just like real life. The idea that a work of fiction should be only all-comedy or all-serious is unnatural and frankly, retarded.
Re: What's canon?
Did you take a look at when Dragon Ball Online, Movie 14, Movie 15 and Dragon Ball Super were released? Also, how any of those things contradict one another?
Re: What's canon?
History of Trunks’ scene of Trunks transforming into ssj from Gohan’s death is re animated in Super, it kinda has to fit with 3ruler9871 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:00 pmNow that I think of it, The History of Trunks could also fit in #3. It has no contradictions with it.Tylerman29 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:54 pm#3 is my preferred way of looking at the series now with everything else being nostalgia trip or what-if/side stories. Although Kai still seems to take the Bardock special as canon so I guess you just have to close your eyes for the Kai prologue and TFC hell scenes....
Also why exactly does the trunks special not fit with Kai? It might be a dumb question but I seem to be missing something obvious.
Re: What's canon?
Nope, DBS anime has Gregory, History of Trunks special, Ultimate Gohan being a transformation, Bulma remembering Ginyu frog. All from Z/Kai.
You can believe whatever you want, but those are the facts. Toei will tend to be influenced by Toei.
Super Dragon Ball Heroes Universe Mission translation compilation here. All translations are done and owned by me.
SDBH 9th anniversary the secret development interview here. Learn how original SDBH characters such as SS3 Raditz, SS4 Bardock, Robel, & more were conceived!
SDBH 9th anniversary the secret development interview here. Learn how original SDBH characters such as SS3 Raditz, SS4 Bardock, Robel, & more were conceived!
Re: What's canon?
Ultimate Gohan wasn't handled any differently in the manga than in the anime. It isn't as though it was a transformation in the anime but not the manga.
The facts are that:
-Kai depicts the old Hell in which Freeza is chilling with all the other villains and not in a cocoon, and literally watches Buu get defeated by Goku. In Super, Freeza is in a cocoon, not hanging out and interacting with all the other villains, and had no clue that Goku had defeated Buu. Both of these notions are extremely important to the plot in Super, and neither exist in Kai.
-Kai opens with the Episode of Bardock, but Super follows Minus is Toriyama's manga that supplements the original manga. Goku's back story as a character is sort of important.
-Gohan recognizes robbers that NEVER appear in Kai/Z at any point, and only appear in the manga.
Kai is heavily contradicted when aligned with Super, and the manga simply isn't. You can believe whatever you want, but the facts are that enormously important plot points like Freeza's entire existence for the past 40 years, and Goku's back story are more vital to the continuity than a grass hopper that hangs out with Kaio and Bulma being a frog at one point.
I agree with this.PsionicWarrior wrote: ↑Wed Apr 17, 2019 12:39 pm The original manga is canon, Jaco and a few specials are canon, Super is canon (all three medias, which is confusing as ****), and that's it. Everyone who tells you otherwise like GT or other similar stuff is wrong, period.
Spoiler:
Re: What's canon?
That's why there's an if. You can't fit any of them without looking past some issues. Dead Zone for example fits between the Piccolo Jr and Saiyan arcs IF you look past Krillin meeting Gohan during the movie and forgetting about him in the Saiyan arc. That's of course assuming you don't take any of Super's events into account as those completely destroy the movies such as Broly's.
July 9th 2018 will be remembered as the day Broly became canon.
Re: What's canon?
That "If" to me sounds like "pretend that the inconsistencies aren't there", and that doesn't feel like a sound argument since it requires you to essentially reject the reality of the movie's design. It's flimsy logic.sintzu wrote: ↑Thu Apr 18, 2019 12:48 pm That's why there's an if. You can't fit any of them without looking past some issues. Dead Zone for example fits between the Piccolo Jr and Saiyan arcs IF you look past Krillin meeting Gohan during the movie and forgetting about him in the Saiyan arc. That's of course assuming you don't take any of Super's events into account as those completely destroy the movies such as Broly's.
Taking it to its logical extreme, you can use that to make the case that GT fits with Super. It would be a flimsy argument though, just like this is.
Re: What's canon?
I agree. It's just something you can do if you like the movies enough. Obviously it won't hold much ground in a serious discussion.
July 9th 2018 will be remembered as the day Broly became canon.
Re: What's canon?
I like quite a few of the movies a lot, but that doesn't mean I need them to exist in the story proper, and I've never really understood this desire many fans have to force them to work as such when they clearly weren't designed to. What's wrong with just letting them be their own thing that exists outside of the story proper?