Is DBS: Broly overrated?

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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wolflonnie
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Re: Is DBS: Broly overrated?

Post by wolflonnie » Thu Apr 11, 2019 2:58 pm

I honestly don't think OG Broly was that bad.
You have to read between lines. He was a psychopath born with raw monstrous strenght and PTSD because of King Vegeta attempting to kill him and his father.
His psychotic tendencies plus his PTSD were triggered with an irritating sound Broly kept hearing over and over, Goku's crying.
The crying motivation actually adds to the "psychotic monster" flavour if you see it this way.
I mean it's not "best character ever" material, like at all, but it's somehow intriguing, even disturbing.

New Broly is... what? A dude with unexplained massive power who is very gentle, but forced to wear a shock collar because his father has some honestly understandable reasons to make him wear that. The movie threats these motivations as nothing but abuse.
He has anger issues and has never seen the world or interacted with anybody. Ok.
I can relate with the "pureness" side, but the rest seems awfully generic, constructed in a way to make you artificially sympathize with the character.

I would've preferred new Broly if he had the qualities of the new one + the psychotic tendencies of the old one. A greyer character, a much more compelling one.

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Re: Is DBS: Broly overrated?

Post by DragonBallFan » Fri Apr 12, 2019 6:35 am

sintzu wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 9:59 am
DragonBallFan wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 7:47 am
If you can come up with a few valid reasons why the old movies can stand against this one, I'll listen.
Bardock : I'm not a fan of the nice version of the character or how Goku escaped planet Vegeta's destruction. It just makes his origin closer to Superman's which it already was to begin with. I like how in the original Goku's survival and turning good was pure coincedence. He wasn't meant to be saved or anything, he was just another random saiyan sent to destroy another random planet who just got lucky. Goku turning good was also pure luck which was him falling and hitting his head. Although that's still part of the story, an argument can be made that having good parents played a role in his shift. It also doesn't help that they marketed the movie as exploring the history of the Saiyans only for it to just be things we've already known and have.

Broly : I do like the changes made to his personality and backstory. The Goku crying thing was always a downside in his original movie and I like that there's more to his past and character than just violence. What I'm not a fan of is Broly losing his main trait, his unstoppable nature. In the original movie you had Broly destroying 4 Saiyans and one Namakian at their full strength, nothing they did was enough to slow him down let alone hurt him. In this movie however, he's kind of a push over. Vegeta was in full control for most of their fight and even when Broly took on his Ozaru state and managed to push him back, we knew Vegeta was nowhere near his full power as he still had not one but TWO transformations he didn't use. I'm happy Vegeta wasn't on the floor waiting to die like in the original but I think they could've done that without making Broly look bad. He fought evenly with Goku Blue but Goku still had Kaioken and UI so we knew he, like Vegeta, wasn't at a disadvantage. Broly's best showing was against Golden Freeza who at that point was nothing compared to the 2 Saiyans so beating him up was nothing to write home about. When he went Ssj and seemed to push back Goku and Vegeta, they fused before he could even touch them and went on to make him look even worse than before.

Like I said, this is by no means a bad story as my points above are completely subjective but for me personally, I think the movie would've been better if it was something completely new instead of remaking older stories.
SSBE is anime exclusive which is why it never appeared, I'm assuming your talking about that when you say he had two more transformations.

The Superman part I partially agree with, Toriyama has taken things from all kinds of movies and incorporated them into DB, it's not like the whole Superman back story is a template that is copyrighted. As far as I know it uses the template but it's still different more or less, not all the Kryptonian's were bad people, most of the Saiyan's were rough and harsh, Superman's parents were 'good', like the rest of their race, Bardock and Gine were 'good', unlike the rest of their race. There are similarities but I feel it's not that big a deal.

I respect your opinions though.

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Re: Is DBS: Broly overrated?

Post by sintzu » Fri Apr 12, 2019 6:45 am

DragonBallFan wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 6:35 am
SSBE is anime exclusive which is why it never appeared, I'm assuming your talking about that when you say he had two more transformations.
Toriyama said this was following the evnets of the anime. I guess it could show up with Kaioken if it gets a retelling once the anime's back.
July 9th 2018 will be remembered as the day Broly became canon.

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Re: Is DBS: Broly overrated?

Post by DragonBallFan » Fri Apr 12, 2019 6:59 am

sintzu wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 6:45 am
DragonBallFan wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 6:35 am
SSBE is anime exclusive which is why it never appeared, I'm assuming your talking about that when you say he had two more transformations.
Toriyama said this was following the evnets of the anime. I guess it could show up with Kaioken if it gets a retelling once the anime's back.
I doubt it, but if it does, so be it. Though I'd rather they just go with the manga, it makes my head hurt having no distinct canon.

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Re: Is DBS: Broly overrated?

Post by sintzu » Fri Apr 12, 2019 9:30 am

DragonBallFan wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 6:59 am
I doubt it, but if it does, so be it. Though I'd rather they just go with the manga, it makes my head hurt having no distinct canon.
"The Dragon Ball Super movie this time will be the next story in the series currently airing on TV. It will be an episode after catching our breath from the climax of the Tournament of Power."

I do agree that it would be better if there was one clear story path instead of 2.
July 9th 2018 will be remembered as the day Broly became canon.

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Re: Is DBS: Broly overrated?

Post by kemuri07 » Fri Apr 12, 2019 10:00 am

Baggie_Saiyan wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 8:42 am
Precisely this film wasn't about our heroes, beyond the fight they were barely in the film other than minor set up to get to the ice continent. This was Broly's film. The tension was for him, especially towards the end when Gogeta was just owning him, I had no idea if Broly was gonna survive and felt genuinely concerned for him.

I agree also regarding Bardock. He was unlikeable in the old special (and the whole stupid physic powers) but here he did things on a whim and honestly was sooooo much cooler as a result than his old counterpart.

Compared to the recent shit we've been served in films like BoG and RF. Broly just felt so perfect, pacing was excellent, humor was done just right, characters and interactions were great and the techinal aspects lile animation, music were phenomenal and the Japanese & English cast more than brought their A game too.

Great f**king film.
But if that's the case, then Broly isn't that great of a character in his own movie. As much as it makes for a decent header on a blog post, it only feels like "Broly" is the main character is that he's the only one who gets even a modicum (of admittedly not that great) character development: Every other character pretty much goes through the story as they always have, and Goku and Vegeta are basically Goku and Vegeta.

If Akira Toriyama was actually committed in making Broly an engaging character, he'd do more than simply make him a slightly sympathetic version of himself. Because aside from that, it's just the same old Broly.

Again, I think the movie is really good--but it's good for what it is: A spectacle. And that's fine. But it's in no way the best thing that Dragon Ball has produced, because it completely relies on that history to succeed.

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Re: Is DBS: Broly overrated?

Post by Toxin45 » Sat Apr 13, 2019 9:10 am

sintzu wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 5:50 am
Baggie_Saiyan wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 5:09 am
No. Broly is easily the best thing the franchise has ever produced. It's phenomenal in every category.
Is it in the story category ? All it did was take 2 older movies and a TV special and mix them into one movie. It wasn't bad by any means but was that the best they could've done ? Wouldn't this kind of production and the franchise as a while benefit more from new stories instead ? It doesn't help that aspects of Bardock and Broly were worse here.
Nah that is your own opinion broly movie is way more popular you are just in the small minority about this.

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Re: Is DBS: Broly overrated?

Post by DragonBallFan » Sat Apr 13, 2019 9:19 am

sintzu wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 9:30 am
DragonBallFan wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 6:59 am
I doubt it, but if it does, so be it. Though I'd rather they just go with the manga, it makes my head hurt having no distinct canon.
"The Dragon Ball Super movie this time will be the next story in the series currently airing on TV. It will be an episode after catching our breath from the climax of the Tournament of Power."

I do agree that it would be better if there was one clear story path instead of 2.
We all know to take a lot of the things the producers say with a pinch of salt, now they are apparently following the manga, good lord they should have just waited instead of being greedy money pigs and jumping into things back into 2015.

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Re: Is DBS: Broly overrated?

Post by sintzu » Sat Apr 13, 2019 9:27 am

Toxin45 wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 9:10 am
Nah that is your own opinion broly movie is way more popular you are just in the small minority about this.
I'm not talking about popularity. Broly made nearly 120 million $ at the box office so it's without question very popular. I'm saying that instead of just giving us the same thing we had in the 90's, wouldn't it have been better from a creative point of view to give us something new ?
July 9th 2018 will be remembered as the day Broly became canon.

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Re: Is DBS: Broly overrated?

Post by Toxin45 » Sat Apr 13, 2019 10:18 am

sintzu wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 9:27 am
Toxin45 wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 9:10 am
Nah that is your own opinion broly movie is way more popular you are just in the small minority about this.
I'm not talking about popularity. Broly made nearly 120 million $ at the box office so it's without question very popular. I'm saying that instead of just giving us the same thing we had in the 90's, wouldn't it have been better from a creative point of view to give us something new ?
Like Battle of gods and Moro arc is still a bit stall

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Re: Is DBS: Broly overrated?

Post by PFM18 » Sat Apr 13, 2019 10:00 pm

sintzu wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 6:45 am
DragonBallFan wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 6:35 am
SSBE is anime exclusive which is why it never appeared, I'm assuming your talking about that when you say he had two more transformations.
Toriyama said this was following the evnets of the anime. I guess it could show up with Kaioken if it gets a retelling once the anime's back.
No, he didn't. He just mentioned the anime he didnt specifically claim it was following the anime continuity. This also isn't true because the manga is literally using it as part of it's continuity, if it wasn't already obvious by the lack of SSBE/SSBKK.

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Re: Is DBS: Broly overrated?

Post by sintzu » Sat Apr 13, 2019 11:31 pm

PFM18 wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 10:00 pm
No, he didn't. He just mentioned the anime he didnt specifically claim it was following the anime continuity.
You're just playing with words. Why would he just mention the anime for the fun of it ?

In terms of Kaioken and evolution, there are 2possible reasons why they weren't in the movie. In-Universe : Goku and Vegeta figured out that even if they took the time to transform into them, they wouldn't slow Broly down one bit which is why Goku decided on fusion right away. Out of universe : There wasn't time to use them. We didn't even get a Blue Vegeta vs Broly as Goku took over when he was still using Red.
July 9th 2018 will be remembered as the day Broly became canon.

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Re: Is DBS: Broly overrated?

Post by FortuneSSJ » Sun Apr 14, 2019 12:50 pm

It deserves all the praise it gets, because It's a fantastic movie.

The retcons don't bother me, because I don't take Toriyama serious anymore.
What I didn't like is how the art look during Broly beating Freeza and in the fusion scene, the lack of blood and the amount of CGI.

What seems to have become one of the most memorable scenes in the movie, Goku/Vegeta doing Kamehameha/Galick Gun together, was done in CGI and that is just sad.

Nagamine was the director of One Piece Film Z and most CGI scenes were totally redrew in 2D so it didn't look jarring. I don't know why they didn't do the same here.
Last edited by FortuneSSJ on Sun Apr 14, 2019 12:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Is DBS: Broly overrated?

Post by sintzu » Sun Apr 14, 2019 12:57 pm

FortuneSSJ wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 12:50 pm
Nagamine was the director of One Piece Film Z and most CGI scenes were totally redesigned in 2D so it didn't look jarring. I don't know why they didn't do the same here.
Both BOG and RF had CGI as well so maybe it's kept on purpose. Mybe someone thinks it looks good ?
July 9th 2018 will be remembered as the day Broly became canon.

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Re: Is DBS: Broly overrated?

Post by Hulk10 » Tue Apr 23, 2019 11:02 pm

I think its pretty good. I wish new Broly had paler skin like he does in his original film and I wish he still had his tail but other than that I like the film. Others can think the film is overrated but that is just opinion.


I like the dynamic between Bardock and Gine in that film. The two of them clearly respect each other. I find it sadly ironic that Bardock's decision to send Kakarot offworld was perhaps the best thing he could have done for his son...…….
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Re: Is DBS: Broly overrated?

Post by PFM18 » Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:56 am

sintzu wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 12:57 pm
FortuneSSJ wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 12:50 pm
Nagamine was the director of One Piece Film Z and most CGI scenes were totally redesigned in 2D so it didn't look jarring. I don't know why they didn't do the same here.
Both BOG and RF had CGI as well so maybe it's kept on purpose. Mybe someone thinks it looks good ?
Yeah, I believe DBS Broly to be by far the GOAT Dragon Ball movie, but I really hated the CGI especially in that scene. It just looks awful.

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Re: Is DBS: Broly overrated?

Post by Jackalope89 » Thu Apr 25, 2019 9:02 pm

Its good. And I really enjoyed it (dub even). But there are spots where it feels like it had something cut out to make run time shorter at the cost of character development and what not. Like Broly's time with Lemo and Chilye was short, if I'm being honest. It really needed more time to flesh out the three's relationship with one another leading up to the battle on Earth.

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Re: Is DBS: Broly overrated?

Post by UpFromTheSkies » Fri May 03, 2019 7:49 am

Nokra wrote:
Tue Apr 02, 2019 11:57 am
I watched the movie and thought it was okay to mediocre.The animation was average and bad in some parts especially with the Freeza/broly and fusion scene. People are praising this movie likes it the best movie ever even though it barely has any story and is just a big fight like the ToP which was a terrible boring arc. Idk maybe I just expect too much out of dbs and forget that its a mediocre show anyway. What do you all think?
You think it's mediocre compared to what? Films in general? If so, I don't think that's a fair way to judge it, it's a shonen anime and it should be compared to other shonen anime. Compared to other shonen anime movies, I think it was exceptionally good, especially so when compared to other Dragon Ball movies which are usually under an hour long and have very little to no depth.

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Re: Is DBS: Broly overrated?

Post by SaintEvolution » Sun May 05, 2019 3:51 pm

Don't think so. It makes the story of the old Broly movie better while puts it in the canon without big incoherences or troubles.

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Re: Is DBS: Broly overrated?

Post by Grimlock » Sun May 05, 2019 3:58 pm

SaintEvolution wrote:
Sun May 05, 2019 3:51 pm
Don't think so. It makes the story of the old Broly movie better while puts it in the canon without big incoherences or troubles.
You really think a mistake (namely years) in time placement is not a "big incoherences or troubles"?

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