Would you guys like a “canon” Shadow Dragon Arc?

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GodVegetto91
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Would you guys like a “canon” Shadow Dragon Arc?

Post by GodVegetto91 » Wed Apr 10, 2019 1:04 am

I think it would be pretty dope to finally have another “Omega Shenron” in Super. But than with a totally different design ofcourse. It will be a whole new character.

The concept of the Shadow Dragons was the only “concept” that i liked from GT. It just makes sense that the final villain of the show is going to be some kind of evil Dragon. And when you have 7 dragons, than simply have 1 of them absorb the other 6 to achieve ultimate power like Omega Shenron did.

What do you guys think? You down for it?

This time they could do it right. I mean, the show itself is literally called ”DRAGON” Ball.

I suspect a new design. That said, i‘ve always loved the design of the original Omega Shenron too!

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Re: Would you guys like a “canon” Shadow Dragon Arc?

Post by Nokra » Wed Apr 10, 2019 1:26 am

No because the shadow dragons were all lame except nova. Also what would be the point of reusing a concept that made no sense anyway?

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Re: Would you guys like a “canon” Shadow Dragon Arc?

Post by sintzu » Wed Apr 10, 2019 1:38 am

As good as the concept was, what made it work was the end results, Goku "dying" and the dragon balls being taken away for 100 years. Modern DB is being made to last forever so it won't have much weight behind it without those consequences.
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Re: Would you guys like a “canon” Shadow Dragon Arc?

Post by Lionel » Wed Apr 10, 2019 1:44 am

sintzu wrote: Wed Apr 10, 2019 1:38 am As good as the concept was, what made it work was the end results, Goku "dying" and the dragon balls being taken away for 100 years. Modern DB is being made to last forever so it won't have much weight behind it without those consequences.
Have to agree with this assessment. Dragon Ball is currently in the midst of a revival. Taking away the iconic items that give the series its name wouldn't be very prudent -- not Earth's Dragon Balls anyway. Maybe they could do something with the Super Dragon Balls? They've only been used twice, to our knowledge, in the main timeline. It might be better to finally use the "Zarama" card and expand upon his role in everything. You could hopefully make a Dragon Ball consequence related arc that way.

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Re: Would you guys like a “canon” Shadow Dragon Arc?

Post by sintzu » Wed Apr 10, 2019 2:42 am

Lionel wrote: Wed Apr 10, 2019 1:44 amMaybe they could do something with the Super Dragon Balls? They've only been used twice, to our knowledge, in the main timeline. It might be better to finally use the "Zarama" card and expand upon his role in everything. You could hopefully make a Dragon Ball consequence related arc that way.
The problem with modern DB is that there are no consequences for anything. Even things that had small consequences were changed such as the potara fusion. I do agree that they should eventually do something with Zarama but I doubt it'll have anywhere near the same impact on the lore as GT's shadow dragons arc had.
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Re: Would you guys like a “canon” Shadow Dragon Arc?

Post by louisascommie » Wed Apr 10, 2019 6:56 pm

Instead of the shadow dragons be a consequence of misusing dragon balls

Have it be a curse that some forbidden spell does that corrupts dragon balls.

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Re: Would you guys like a “canon” Shadow Dragon Arc?

Post by Spencer_23 » Thu Apr 11, 2019 4:46 pm

I’d for sure be fine with it. In fact Super should really do a Bebi & Shadow Dragon type arc as long as it’s serious in tone

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Re: Would you guys like a “canon” Shadow Dragon Arc?

Post by GodVegetto91 » Thu Apr 11, 2019 11:28 pm

Nokra wrote: Wed Apr 10, 2019 1:26 am No because the shadow dragons were all lame except nova. Also what would be the point of reusing a concept that made no sense anyway?
Aren’t you.. “banned”?!

Anyways, it DID make sense! Perfect sense in fact. Way more sense than a random tuffle or an android fusion. It’s the only concept of GT that made any sense.

The show itself is literally called DRAGON ball. So it would make sense that the final villain of the show is going to be some kind of pissed off and/or evil Dragon. And since they have been abusing the dragonballs for years, it seems like the perfect excuse to bring them in.

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Re: Would you guys like a “canon” Shadow Dragon Arc?

Post by Gokitalo » Thu Apr 11, 2019 11:40 pm

I agree that making the final villain Shenron-- well, several evil versions of him-- was a very thematic way to close out the series (and ties in well with the Elder Kaiōshin's warnings during the Buu Saga). A canon Shadow Dragon Arc could definitely be fun, sure: maybe this time, the dragons could be evil versions of SUPER Shenron!

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Re: Would you guys like a “canon” Shadow Dragon Arc?

Post by Nokra » Fri Apr 12, 2019 9:53 am

GodVegetto91 wrote: Thu Apr 11, 2019 11:28 pm
Nokra wrote: Wed Apr 10, 2019 1:26 am No because the shadow dragons were all lame except nova. Also what would be the point of reusing a concept that made no sense anyway?
Aren’t you.. “banned”?!

Anyways, it DID make sense! Perfect sense in fact. Way more sense than a random tuffle or an android fusion. It’s the only concept of GT that made any sense.

The show itself is literally called DRAGON ball. So it would make sense that the final villain of the show is going to be some kind of pissed off and/or evil Dragon. And since they have been abusing the dragonballs for years, it seems like the perfect excuse to bring them in.
I was temporarily banned but I don't see how that's relevant? Just because the show is called one thing doesn't mean anything. The show could be called "Amazing hair color changing showdown deathbattles" which would make sense considering that's all dragonballz is. I stand by the fact that the shadow dragons were lame except Nova and changing something the heroes depended on to help them into a punishment is DUMB.

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Re: Would you guys like a “canon” Shadow Dragon Arc?

Post by Saturnine » Fri Apr 12, 2019 2:46 pm

This concept never made sense in the first place, considering that Earth's Dragonballs were weak and limited, Shenron himself was killed by King Piccolo etc.

I have no idea how they could justify making these dragons a relevant threat by this point. The only way they could would be if it were the Super DBs right now, in the era of universe busters.

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Re: Would you guys like a “canon” Shadow Dragon Arc?

Post by sintzu » Fri Apr 12, 2019 3:08 pm

Saturnine wrote: Fri Apr 12, 2019 2:46 pmThis concept never made sense in the first place, considering that Earth's Dragonballs were weak and limited.

I have no idea how they could justify making these dragons a relevant threat by this point.
It had to do with the amount of times they were used, not shenron's strength. It may not be perfect but it was better than bringing Broly back.

The same way they justified Freeza getting as strong as Goku and Vegeta in 4 months or Future Trunks getting as strong as them through being insulted by Zamasu.
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Re: Would you guys like a “canon” Shadow Dragon Arc?

Post by Saturnine » Fri Apr 12, 2019 4:37 pm

sintzu wrote: Fri Apr 12, 2019 3:08 pm
It had to do with the amount of times they were used, not shenron's strength. It may not be perfect but it was better than bringing Broly back.
Still bad. Shenron's power of granting wishes couldn't exceed his creator's power, which as we know, was rather miserable. It's really hard to swallow that negative energy from only 7+ wishes could create entities as powerful as it somehow did. Even if it's considered a good move from a narrative perspective because it plays straight the "Book Ends" trope. But yeah - I find this whole premise extremely flawed. Not to mention what Shenron did after it was all over (it was never his thing to decide, as he has no agency except to grant wishes).

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Re: Would you guys like a “canon” Shadow Dragon Arc?

Post by Jack Bz » Sat Apr 13, 2019 12:56 am

I have no idea why anyone thinks this is a cool or interesting concept. I especially hate when people say it's good because old kaioshin foreshadowed the dangers that come with using the dragon balls too much. What a boring realisation of that idea. You get a sense from old kai that using the dragon balls to alter reality could be messing with the natural order of the universe or something like that, not just "it'll make really strong evil humanoid dragons". It's especially funny considering the dragon balls were just made by a namekian but using a few wishes creates super saiyan 4 level intelligent monsters.

It really seems like a fan fiction concept, the most basic interpretation possible of the dragon balls turning against the heroes (which I don't like much as an idea anyway).

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Re: Would you guys like a “canon” Shadow Dragon Arc?

Post by sintzu » Sat Apr 13, 2019 1:06 am

Jack Bz wrote: Sat Apr 13, 2019 12:56 amIt really seems like a fan fiction concept, the most basic interpretation possible of the dragon balls turning against the heroes (which I don't like much as an idea anyway).
If that's fan fiction then what do you call what we've been getting in Super ? Golden Freeza, female Broly, etc. ?
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Re: Would you guys like a “canon” Shadow Dragon Arc?

Post by Jack Bz » Sat Apr 13, 2019 1:13 am

sintzu wrote: Sat Apr 13, 2019 1:06 am
Jack Bz wrote: Sat Apr 13, 2019 12:56 amIt really seems like a fan fiction concept, the most basic interpretation possible of the dragon balls turning against the heroes (which I don't like much as an idea anyway).
If that's fan fiction then what do you call what we've been getting in Super ? Golden Freeza, female Broly, etc. ?
Yes, I am not a fan of those rehashes either, and am very concerned that they are the future of dragon ball

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Re: Would you guys like a “canon” Shadow Dragon Arc?

Post by Gokitalo » Sat Apr 13, 2019 9:03 am

Jack Bz wrote: Sat Apr 13, 2019 1:13 am Yes, I am not a fan of those rehashes either, and am very concerned that they are the future of dragon ball
Even though Dragon Ball has "looked back" a bit with Super and its preceding films, we've gotten a lot of new things too, like Beerus, Whis, the Omni-Kings, Zamasu, the Great Priest, a multiverse and various angels, destroyers and fighters from those new universes. I think Toriyama typically enjoys making new things unless he has a new idea for an old concept (e.g. Freeza) or is asked to bring back older concepts by the other people working on Super. Using Broli wasn't Toriyama's idea, for example, but he went with it because he was asked and he saw potential in it. It's worth noting too that his version of Broli has a lot of differences from the original.

So I don't think you need to worry. I wouldn't mind more older concepts like the Shadow Dragons being made canon, for example, but knowing Toriyama, he's far more likely to introduce something new.

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Re: Would you guys like a “canon” Shadow Dragon Arc?

Post by GodVegetto91 » Sat Apr 13, 2019 12:47 pm

Gokitalo wrote: Sat Apr 13, 2019 9:03 am
Jack Bz wrote: Sat Apr 13, 2019 1:13 am Yes, I am not a fan of those rehashes either, and am very concerned that they are the future of dragon ball
Even though Dragon Ball has "looked back" a bit with Super and its preceding films, we've gotten a lot of new things too, like Beerus, Whis, the Omni-Kings, Zamasu, the Great Priest, a multiverse and various angels, destroyers and fighters from those new universes. I think Toriyama typically enjoys making new things unless he has a new idea for an old concept (e.g. Freeza) or is asked to bring back older concepts by the other people working on Super. Using Broli wasn't Toriyama's idea, for example, but he went with it because he was asked and he saw potential in it. It's worth noting too that his version of Broli has a lot of differences from the original.

So I don't think you need to worry. I wouldn't mind more older concepts like the Shadow Dragons being made canon, for example, but knowing Toriyama, he's far more likely to introduce something new.
And don’t forget about Jiren and Moro.

Well i’m fine with rehashes as long as they don’t make Cooler canon.

That said, Janemba had a truly awesome design, so he’s more than welcome in my book. Oh, and if there is ever ONE character that i want them to reintroduce, it’s Cell!

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Re: Would you guys like a “canon” Shadow Dragon Arc?

Post by anubisj » Sat Apr 13, 2019 1:19 pm

To be honest, my own canon is the original anime trilogy (db, dbz, dbgt). I pray to Kami/Piccolo/whoever is listening that broly super is the last recycled stuff we see going forward. i mean, aside from the term canon (which we all know is a delicate topic), I just don´t see the point in re-adding past characters to the new series, or plot devices or anything at all. I´d much rather they create new stuff (as the original anime trilogy did), of course there are going to be scenes similar to previous ones, you can only do so much with DB´s framework of punching the next big bad guy and power levels...but, and this is a big but, basically cloning scenes from past sagas lessens the impact of both the new and the original (yes, I´m looking at you, Resurrection of Frieza saga).
And to be completely honest, I actually hate it when they reuse concepts (and I could go into a rant explaining why). But I know that´s mainly my perspective, I´m pretty sure few people share this hate. Still, I don´t think it works, generally speaking.

Yes, I know about the recent movie´s success. No, I don´t enjoy watching saiyans with guns (though that´s kind of ehm original), shoe-horning the ginyu force and more Frieza (I see him everywhere , at this point I wouldn´t be surprised to see him in a cereal brand commercial), but I guess the movie was well made. I just wouldn´t like the next movie to feature a yellow and green Janemba joining forces with a black goku 2.0 that eats apples to boost his power.

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Re: Would you guys like a “canon” Shadow Dragon Arc?

Post by sunsetshimmer » Sat Apr 13, 2019 1:51 pm

No.

Despite this saga lacking some explanation and having some flaws i'm 100% sure DBS would completely ruin it.
And since this saga already happened, you can't replicate its feeling of characters facing consequences of their own actions since Goku met Bulma. Or feeling of 4-star dragon being good. Let alone this saga being the last saga of DB and connecting well with amazing ending about characters deciding to live without dragon balls and 100 year time skip showing us that dragon balls turned into a fairytail again.

DBS still takes place before end of Z, so it's pointless.
In Super this saga would be just another arc full of fights and nothing more. Dragons would appear, Goku and other would beat them and move onto another arc. This saga is basically impossible to replicate without ruining what made it unique. You could make cooler dragons, better fights, give more screentime to Vegeta and others, but it would still be worse than original for reasons stated above.

Also...

What is with all you people that want old things becoming canon so much? What difference does it make for you?
You really prefer too see the same thing for a second time only to know it's canon instead of something new, no matter if canon or not?
When did canon (that was never even stated by anyone) become so important that people stopped caring about new stuff? Let DBS Broly be the best example of this. Even Battle of Gods, the most original DB movie, is so underrated and got a lot of hate back then.
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