Why is it Kefla and not Kafla

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Why is it Kefla and not Kafla

Post by nickzambuto » Sat May 04, 2019 9:19 am

If it is pronounced Kafla, it should just be spelled that way.

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Re: Why is it Kefla and not Kafla

Post by VegettoEX » Sat May 04, 2019 9:33 am

It should be.

Kanzenshuu style guide is indeed "Kafla".

Yes, the raw romanization of ケーフラ is Kēfura, but it's a merging of two "English" word-sources: "Kale" (as-is) and "Caulifla" (from "cauliflower"). It makes absolutely no sense to keep the raw "ke-" transliteration in the spelling if you're already adapting "Kale" properly as "Kale" and not some "Keru" nonsense. Swing and a miss / lack of any critical thinking by the official companies.
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Re: Why is it Kefla and not Kafla

Post by Grimlock » Sat May 04, 2019 10:06 am

Oh, it must definitely is "Kafla". As well as it is "Cabba" and not "Kyabe" as I've heard some official dubs went with it. Official entities can make mistakes unfortunately.

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Re: Why is it Kefla and not Kafla

Post by Baggie_Saiyan » Sat May 04, 2019 1:24 pm

Bandai went even stupider and spells her as Kefula...

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Re: Why is it Kefla and not Kafla

Post by Melee_Sovereign » Sat May 04, 2019 2:25 pm

Kefla sounds better, honestly.

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Re: Why is it Kefla and not Kafla

Post by VegettoEX » Sat May 04, 2019 3:53 pm

Melee_Sovereign wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 2:25 pm
Kefla sounds better, honestly.
What does "sounds better" even mean here, though? It's a really super obvious miss of a spelling. See also: "Dabura". Some might argue that "duhBOORa" (or even, dare I say, "Doubler") "sounds better", but what are you even saying and why with that? Why do that? Why purposefully miss the point?
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Re: Why is it Kefla and not Kafla

Post by Melee_Sovereign » Sat May 04, 2019 4:52 pm

VegettoEX wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 3:53 pm
Melee_Sovereign wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 2:25 pm
Kefla sounds better, honestly.
What does "sounds better" even mean here, though? It's a really super obvious miss of a spelling. See also: "Dabura". Some might argue that "duhBOORa" (or even, dare I say, "Doubler") "sounds better", but what are you even saying and why with that? Why do that? Why purposefully miss the point?
I'm confused. Isn't it pronounced as "Kefla"? That's how Kefla herself says it in the Japanese version. So what is wrong with the spelling?

And what I said is what I mean. Kefla sounds better than Kafla to me.

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Re: Why is it Kefla and not Kafla

Post by Kataphrut » Sat May 04, 2019 6:41 pm

I get around this by pronouncing it with a Pokémon-esque accented 'é'. Because that's how we've adopted the pronunciation in English- "Kay-fla," which fits the English pronunciation of 'Kale'. The problem with 'Kafla' is that it reads like "Kaf-la."

Look, let's just hope they eventually get a Metamoran version called 'Caulale' (and optional botched fusion dance version called 'Caulifail') that becomes more used and we won't have to worry about it.

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Re: Why is it Kefla and not Kafla

Post by Akamay » Sat May 04, 2019 6:50 pm

Wasn't this the same issue that they had with Vegetto? The name makes sense is Japanese but the moment you translate it, it all goes to hell?

Logically, Kafla makes more sense than Kefla, but I feel like keeping the original name would be better rather than renaming the character for the international release.
It is not as confusing as the whole "Vegerot"/"Vegito"/"Vegetto" thing.
If it makes all of the releases more consistent, I'd prefer to have "Kefla" as the official spelling.
But that's just my opinion.

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Re: Why is it Kefla and not Kafla

Post by Alruneia » Sat May 04, 2019 7:10 pm

Kefla is a direct translation from Japanese and is pretty much just how you pronounce it. It's like writing Vegitto instead of Vegetto, basically. Writing it as "Kafla" when it's pronounced "Kefla" could lead to confusion (realistically, people will just not pronounce it right, not a terribly big deal), so that may be a reason why they didn't go with it. Another possible reason is that they just do this stuff sometimes (see Klilyn and Mye).
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Re: Why is it Kefla and not Kafla

Post by Rakurai » Sat May 04, 2019 8:10 pm

Melee_Sovereign wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 4:52 pm
VegettoEX wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 3:53 pm
Melee_Sovereign wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 2:25 pm
Kefla sounds better, honestly.
What does "sounds better" even mean here, though? It's a really super obvious miss of a spelling. See also: "Dabura". Some might argue that "duhBOORa" (or even, dare I say, "Doubler") "sounds better", but what are you even saying and why with that? Why do that? Why purposefully miss the point?
I'm confused. Isn't it pronounced as "Kefla"? That's how Kefla herself says it in the Japanese version. So what is wrong with the spelling?

And what I said is what I mean. Kefla sounds better than Kafla to me.
English: Kale + Caulifla = Kafla.

Japanese: Keru + Karifura = Kefura.

Kafla is the right way to translate the name portmanteaus in English based on their name puns. Kefla, while the more correct way to pronounce it in Japanese, is just plain wrong. It's like using 'Bejita' instead of 'Vegeta' (where the only real difference comes from the pronounciation of V).

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Re: Why is it Kefla and not Kafla

Post by Melee_Sovereign » Sat May 04, 2019 8:52 pm

Rakurai wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 8:10 pm


English: Kale + Caulifla = Kafla.

Japanese: Keru + Karifura = Kefura.

Kafla is the right way to translate the name portmanteaus in English based on their name puns. Kefla, while the more correct way to pronounce it in Japanese, is just plain wrong. It's like using 'Bejita' instead of 'Vegeta' (where the only real difference comes from the pronounciation of V).
But by that same token, Vegito is also wrong in English. But no one bats an eye.

Also is Kafla prounced with a long 'a' or a short 'a'? Is it Kah-fla or Kay-fla?

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Re: Why is it Kefla and not Kafla

Post by Rakurai » Sun May 05, 2019 1:46 am

Melee_Sovereign wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 8:52 pm

But by that same token, Vegito is also wrong in English. But no one bats an eye.

Also is Kafla prounced with a long 'a' or a short 'a'? Is it Kah-fla or Kay-fla?
I've called this out before too. Vegito (I prefer 'Vegetto' myself which is closer to the original romanization) is also just plain wrong. Given the English translation of 'Kakarotto' to 'Kakarot,' it should be 'Vegerot.' And it is like that in VIZ with the manga, but not with the anime. It's about consistency in the translation and name puns. From what I've seen, the Crunchyroll dub in general has been bad about this.

Just because people are fine with it doesn't mean the translation makes sense and is reasonable.

The Ka-sound comes from Kale, so it should be Kay-fla.

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Re: Why is it Kefla and not Kafla

Post by Desassina » Sun May 05, 2019 5:10 am

It's because Kale cares, Caulifla's carefree, while Kafla is careful.

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Re: Why is it Kefla and not Kafla

Post by Melee_Sovereign » Sun May 05, 2019 2:02 pm

Rakurai wrote:
Sun May 05, 2019 1:46 am

Just because people are fine with it doesn't mean the translation makes sense and is reasonable.
Thing is, these are names. Names are something you don't necessarily "translate". Rather, you say them how they are natively said. Granted pronounciation might vary, but this isn't necessarily the same as a separate translation.

For example, Kale is not a translation of Keru, or vice versa. It's a different pronounciation. And Keru is based of an English word to begin with.

The Ka-sound comes from Kale, so it should be Kay-fla.
That's the other thing. The spelling of Kafla doesn't necessarily read "Kay-fla" for an English speaker.

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Re: Why is it Kefla and not Kafla

Post by Rakurai » Sun May 05, 2019 2:13 pm

Melee_Sovereign wrote:
Sun May 05, 2019 2:02 pm
Rakurai wrote:
Sun May 05, 2019 1:46 am

Just because people are fine with it doesn't mean the translation makes sense and is reasonable.
Thing is, these are names. Names are something you don't necessarily "translate". Rather, you say them how they are natively said. Granted pronounciation might vary, but this isn't necessarily the same as a separate translation.

The Ka-sound comes from Kale, so it should be Kay-fla.
That's the other thing. The spelling of Kafla doesn't necessarily read "Kay-fla" for an English speaker.
It depends on the name and context surrounding it.

Saiyan names in the most literal sense like Kakarotto, Bejiita, Burori, Burdokku, Kanba, Keru, Karifura will not resonate or sound familiar with a foreign audience. The job of a dub is to convey the meanings of words, sentences, and phrases as accurately as possible. This includes names. The great thing about Saiyan names, however, is that they are based after puns so it becomes much easier to translate these names based on a common convention of being named after vegetables.

I'm going to give an example that doesn't have an official English translation (yet). The name Kanba is based on the vegetable (or maybe it's actually a fruit? Idk) Cucumber. The most appropriate translation to English (based on the pun from which it's derived from) is Cumber. Keeping the romanization to Kanba misses the whole point of the name's inspiration and naming lineage. And other variations like 'Cunber' which for some blasted asinine reason the DB wiki uses not only fails at conveying the clever naming scheme, but also butchers the name in general and misleads people to think this is how Japanese words should be pronounced.

And in the English dub, where Kale and Caulifla are the official English names. Kefla is absolutely wrong.

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Re: Why is it Kefla and not Kafla

Post by Melee_Sovereign » Sun May 05, 2019 2:50 pm

Rakurai wrote:
Sun May 05, 2019 2:13 pm

It depends on the name and context surrounding it.

Saiyan names in the most literal sense like Kakarotto, Bejiita, Burori, Burdokku, Kanba, Keru, Karifura will not resonate or sound familiar with a foreign audience.
Those are still pronunciations, not translations. Our way of saying those names is our way of pronouncing it, not our way of translating it. Kefla is our way of pronouncing Kefura. It doesn't make sense to say Kay-fla.

If you travel to Japan and have a non-Japanese name, the Japanese there are gonna have a tendency to pronounce your name differently. It doesn't mean your name is different in Japan. Your name is still the way it always is. It's just that their accent has a tendency to make them pronounce it differently.

Forget where Kefla derives from. Treat the name as its own entity. The character's name is Kefla. A Japanese person would have a tendency to pronounce it like "Kefura" though.

The great thing about Saiyan names, however, is that they are based after puns so it becomes much easier to translate these names based on a common convention of being named after vegetables.
We shouldn't worry about what the names are based off of, and we shouldn't worry about translating them. We should just pronounce them like we are English speakers.

The name Kanba is based on the vegetable (or maybe it's actually a fruit? Idk) Cucumber. The most appropriate translation to English (based on the pun from which it's derived from) is Cumber.
We would say Cunber. Kanba pronounciation also works for English speakers.

You're way too caught up in being proper and a purist based on the name origin, rather than simply being content with how you would naturally say the name.

And in the English dub, where Kale and Caulifla are the official English names. Kefla is absolutely wrong.
It's their official Japanese names too. The Japanese just pronounce it differently. Just like they would pronounce my name differently if I traveled there (and I have actually). It doesn't mean I suddenly have a different name in Japan. It's the same name.

"Kefla" is based on the Japanese pronounciations of Kale and Caulifla, but her name is still Kefla, because the name still exists as its own entity regardless of what it's based off of. We shouldn't try to come up with our version of a portmanteau of Kale and Caulifla. We should just worry about pronouncing "Kefura" our way, and Kefla is appropriate to an English accent.

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Re: Why is it Kefla and not Kafla

Post by Rakurai » Sun May 05, 2019 5:14 pm

Melee_Sovereign wrote:
Sun May 05, 2019 2:50 pm
We shouldn't try to come up with our version of a portmanteau of Kale and Caulifla. We should just worry about pronouncing "Kefura" our way, and Kefla is appropriate to an English accent.
I'm going to leave it with just this: that is not the point of a localization.

There is no respect or authenticity in attempting to retain the way a name is said as close as possible by butchering it. It is more appropriate to pay homage to the naming conventions from which they are derived from. Cunber is asinine and stupid, and Kefla is just plain wrong. Both Crunchyroll and Funimation are horribly inconsistent about naming conventions in general.

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Re: Why is it Kefla and not Kafla

Post by HeroR » Sun May 05, 2019 6:55 pm

Rakurai wrote:
Sun May 05, 2019 5:14 pm
Melee_Sovereign wrote:
Sun May 05, 2019 2:50 pm
We shouldn't try to come up with our version of a portmanteau of Kale and Caulifla. We should just worry about pronouncing "Kefura" our way, and Kefla is appropriate to an English accent.
I'm going to leave it with just this: that is not the point of a localization.

There is no respect or authenticity in attempting to retain the way a name is said as close as possible by butchering it. It is more appropriate to pay homage to the naming conventions from which they are derived from. Cunber is asinine and stupid, and Kefla is just plain wrong. Both Crunchyroll and Funimation are horribly inconsistent about naming conventions in general.
CR don't do subs. The subs you see on CR comes from Toei.
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Re: Why is it Kefla and not Kafla

Post by Rakurai » Sun May 05, 2019 7:47 pm

HeroR wrote:
Sun May 05, 2019 6:55 pm
CR don't do subs. The subs you see on CR comes from Toei.
Okay. Then that just simply means Toei is horribly inconsistent and wrong about the localization. Which is nothing shocking for animation companies since they don't tend to be very good with localizing to English or other languages themselves.

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