Am I The Only DB Fan Who Likes Jiren?

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

Moderators: Kanzenshuu Staff, General Help

User avatar
Nokra
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 253
Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2018 8:39 pm
Location: Transcendent Realm

Am I The Only DB Fan Who Likes Jiren?

Post by Nokra » Mon May 13, 2019 12:04 am

I think I may be the only person in this entire fandom who thinks Jiren "The Grey" is a cool character. It seems no one else likes him besides me which is fine because I always seem to like things everyone hates like DB: Evolution, Spiderman 3 and Zamasu. So my question is am I the lone Jiren fan or are there others? :?:

User avatar
Tian
OMG CRAZY REG
Posts: 831
Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2015 10:21 pm
Location: Buenos Aires

Re: Am I The Only DB Fan Who Likes Jiren?

Post by Tian » Mon May 13, 2019 12:23 am

Not really.

I mean, even the most boring character has its own fair share of fans. I'm pretty sure there are other Jiren fans out there. It's just you haven't found them yet.

And this is being said by a guy who totally sees Jiren as boring and not interesting (well, his past may have been kinda interesting to further explore).
[Enter a cool signature here]

Kataphrut
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1314
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2017 8:12 pm

Re: Am I The Only DB Fan Who Likes Jiren?

Post by Kataphrut » Mon May 13, 2019 12:40 am

I like him, I think plenty of people do. It's a classic situation where the critical wing of the fanbase will tear a character to shreds, but the general audience loves them for their cool factor. A good comparison would be the original Broly who was divisive for a lot of the same reasons as Jiren, right down to the dodgy backstory. And yet he was popular enough to get multiple appearances, a lifetime membership on every video game roster and merchandise line, a female expy and eventually a "canon" version.

He works well as an intimidating brick wall, and while many felt the decision to make him "about" something near the end was handled poorly, I think it bore fruit in the end. I thought I'd written him off along with everyone else when we got the backstory dump, but somehow just a few episodes later when we got the final episode and his talk with Toppo, I came away thinking "you know, I wouldn't mind seeing this guy again."

The other criticism people have is that being a simple brute-force fighter with few interesting techniques was a let-down after the likes of Hit and Zamasu. Personally, I think that helps him stand out from the rest of the series' villain gallery. Super didn't have the same linear progression of threats that the original DB-DBZ-GT did. You got the strongest villain, Beerus, introduced at the very start, then the next few villains (Freeza, Hit, Black, Zamasu) are all in roughly the same "tier" of strength, and the threat comes from other attributes like Hit's techniques, Zamasu's immortality and his teamwork with Black. So when Jiren comes along and he's just every classic DBZ strength trope rolled into one, it actually has impact. Moreso than say, the Android saga where we're just meant to accept that these machine people built in a garage can take a punch better than the Emperor of the Universe.

User avatar
MozillaVulpix
Regular
Posts: 663
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2014 11:01 pm
Contact:

Re: Am I The Only DB Fan Who Likes Jiren?

Post by MozillaVulpix » Mon May 13, 2019 2:37 am

I like him.

Maybe just because of the idea that his cold, stoic, generic strong-guy persona is just a facade he made to hide the fact that he's really just scared and lonely inside. There's this almost metatextual element to his character, where they use the lone stoic strong guy to discuss the very idea of being a lone stoic strong guy.
I could have gotten into anything...and yet I chose the story aimed at young Japanese boys about martial arts, and later about super-powerful aliens punching each other really hard.

https://www.youtube.com/c/MozillaVulpix

User avatar
KuririnNoKotoKa
Newbie
Posts: 47
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2017 4:51 pm

Re: Am I The Only DB Fan Who Likes Jiren?

Post by KuririnNoKotoKa » Mon May 13, 2019 6:23 am

He has unique iconography to him (even if not always executed properly due to Super's schedule), his visual motif, and parts of the scripting around him like how he refers to ki as heat before other characters, bar notably Goku, get in on it as well because it sounds cool, play off his name pun in a rather subtle, but still silly, way.

Beyond that, he is probably the only character in Super whom we learn more about through body language and the general storyboarding of the episodes rather than the text. His fight with Goku in 109 and 110 has notably little dialogue, just some brief words at the start, some spectator commentary and the Genki Dama scene. Obviously he gets more talkative later on as he takes the center stage in the final fight, but it's just a rather unique take on characterization that we haven't really had in Super. Hit would be closest, but his beats are much more straightforward: Dude is just bored because no one else measured up to him in years, then Goku does and he begins to enjoy fighting again.

I just wish there was less fat around his fight with Goku, but oh well, it is what it is.

User avatar
SupremeKai25
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1080
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:40 am

Re: Am I The Only DB Fan Who Likes Jiren?

Post by SupremeKai25 » Mon May 13, 2019 8:28 am

because I always seem to like things everyone hates like DB: Evolution, Spiderman 3 and Zamasu.
I'm pretty sure that Zamasu is the most popular character introduced in Super by far. Why are you saying that everyone hates him? I am not asking for a source, I'm just curious that you had this impression, because frankly I have seen the opposite on the internet.
"Behold this ultimate vessel. The sword and shield made one. Its strength knows no limits. The power coursing through me is exceptional, glorious, absolute. Stare in awe, I AM JUSTICE INCARNATE!!!"

Zamasu/Fused Zamasu fan.

User avatar
Lord Beerus
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 20469
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2014 5:20 pm
Location: A temple on a giant tree
Contact:

Re: Am I The Only DB Fan Who Likes Jiren?

Post by Lord Beerus » Mon May 13, 2019 10:03 am

I find mediums take on Jiren's characterisation and backstory work well for what they were going for. In the anime, he's a man deeply broken by his past and uses strength to paper over the cracks. In the manga, Jiren is far more morally upstanding but has never come to terms with understanding the concept of working in a team.
SupremeKai25 wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 8:28 am
because I always seem to like things everyone hates like DB: Evolution, Spiderman 3 and Zamasu.
I'm pretty sure that Zamasu is the most popular character introduced in Super by far. Why are you saying that everyone hates him? I am not asking for a source, I'm just curious that you had this impression, because frankly I have seen the opposite on the internet.
No. I'm pretty sure that honour belongs to Goku Black.

User avatar
SupremeKai25
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1080
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:40 am

Re: Am I The Only DB Fan Who Likes Jiren?

Post by SupremeKai25 » Mon May 13, 2019 12:04 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 10:03 am
I find mediums take on Jiren's characterisation and backstory work well for what they were going for. In the anime, he's a man deeply broken by his past and uses strength to paper over the cracks. In the manga, Jiren is far more morally upstanding but has never come to terms with understanding the concept of working in a team.
SupremeKai25 wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 8:28 am
because I always seem to like things everyone hates like DB: Evolution, Spiderman 3 and Zamasu.
I'm pretty sure that Zamasu is the most popular character introduced in Super by far. Why are you saying that everyone hates him? I am not asking for a source, I'm just curious that you had this impression, because frankly I have seen the opposite on the internet.
No. I'm pretty sure that honour belongs to Goku Black.
It's pointless to make a distinction between Zamasu and Goku Black. Sure, Goku Black was starting to get affected by Goku's dull mentality, he had a different design, yada yada yada, but he never denied that he still had the heart of Zamasu. Which means that Zamasu is even more popular because many people also love Fused Zamasu. It's just normal Zamasu who is often overshadowed because he just served as Black's meatshield.
"Behold this ultimate vessel. The sword and shield made one. Its strength knows no limits. The power coursing through me is exceptional, glorious, absolute. Stare in awe, I AM JUSTICE INCARNATE!!!"

Zamasu/Fused Zamasu fan.

Thani
Not-So-Newbie
Posts: 78
Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2016 8:52 pm

Re: Am I The Only DB Fan Who Likes Jiren?

Post by Thani » Mon May 13, 2019 12:46 pm

Yeah, normal Zamasu feels kind of overlooked, but I adore Black and M. Zamasu, they're awesome. Zamasu in comparison have very little variarion in techniques. Despite being a god, he fights just like every single fighter out there, only using in the manga the telekinesis so commom amongst deities (and even then, that's bland as hell for a divine being). I like Zamasu, but I can't fault him, the gods of DB are overall very bland as well.

About Jiren, I kinda like him. If he were a little more vocal about the justice he supposedly championed, and were given more characterisation troughout the tournament (instead of just at the end), plus more techniques (he just used variations of Power Impact and his eye thingies during the whole thing, even the lesser Pride Troopers were more creative!) then he would be much better. We literally only learned more about him as a person in the penultimate episode, for gods sake!

ankokudaishogun
Regular
Posts: 526
Joined: Thu Aug 24, 2017 8:07 pm

Re: Am I The Only DB Fan Who Likes Jiren?

Post by ankokudaishogun » Mon May 13, 2019 9:33 pm

As Toriyama said, Jiren is a character who doesn't speak much

And him not having much in the way of varied techniques works well to show he doesn't really NEED complex techniques because he's Just That Strong.
I mean: when your Normal Punch is enough to scare a Super Saiyan Blue to normal form and can GLARE away a Genkidama, you don't really NEED complex techniques

User avatar
Kanassa
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 5982
Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2016 6:57 am

Re: Am I The Only DB Fan Who Likes Jiren?

Post by Kanassa » Tue May 14, 2019 12:03 am

While I think he could have been done better, I do enjoy him. His design is effective (When he's not drawn to have grotesque muscles), his communication mostly through one-liners, body language and expression was well used and he has a very powerful presence. I feel like this was enhanced by just how much of an endurance test that the final fight felt like, where the remaining fighters were just managing to chip away at his stamina until the final blow.

Besides, as someone who likes to pull themes and metaphors out of their ass, he fits in wonderfully with the meta-commentary I pretend each arc of Super represents.
When Super apparently shoves Goku down our throats:


Obligitory Fan Fic Plug: Dragon Ball - Another Road
Kanassa wrote:
FoolsGil wrote:I hope Mark is dead. But chances are the dragonballs will bring his stupid ass back. :D
- FoolsGil, Out of Context, 2017

User avatar
Zamasu55
I'm pretty cozy, here...
Posts: 1598
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: Am I The Only DB Fan Who Likes Jiren?

Post by Zamasu55 » Tue May 14, 2019 11:18 am

I kinda like his techniques actually.

User avatar
supersaiyanZero
Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
Posts: 368
Joined: Sat Nov 18, 2017 4:10 am

Re: Am I The Only DB Fan Who Likes Jiren?

Post by supersaiyanZero » Tue May 14, 2019 12:26 pm

People dislike a lazy, one-note character? What a surprise.

User avatar
Koitsukai
Regular
Posts: 523
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2018 5:02 pm

Re: Am I The Only DB Fan Who Likes Jiren?

Post by Koitsukai » Tue May 14, 2019 1:30 pm

I really like Jiren, he was introduced as an unclimbable mountain and lived up to it and it'll take a lot to make him look like fodder like has happened to every other villain/rival.
Also loved how he was such a stoic character full of pride and whatnot but like Freeza said, once strenght is shattered it will never be the same... attacking the stands showcasing how broken his strenght and everything he believed was.

User avatar
Koitsukai
Regular
Posts: 523
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2018 5:02 pm

Re: Am I The Only DB Fan Who Likes Jiren?

Post by Koitsukai » Tue May 14, 2019 4:09 pm

I might even add that the idea of Jiren being boring and lame could just be part of his character arc, just the tip of the iceberg but knowing Toriyama, Jiren will not get any development at all.

HeroR
Kicks it Old-School
Posts: 7737
Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2016 11:28 pm

Re: Am I The Only DB Fan Who Likes Jiren?

Post by HeroR » Tue May 14, 2019 4:34 pm

https://imgur.com/0k7oRGl

Nope. And he's really popular in Latin American. Jiren is much like OG Broly. He has a very vocal hatedom that doesn't reflect the actual fandom.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

User avatar
PerhapsTheOtherOne
I Live Here
Posts: 2018
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2017 5:55 pm

Re: Am I The Only DB Fan Who Likes Jiren?

Post by PerhapsTheOtherOne » Tue May 14, 2019 5:03 pm

I like him.

To me, he represents a parody of the "strongest in DBZ ever!" that has come to cause stagnation in this franchise to some degree, like how the Kamikaze Fireballs are a parody of Toei's magical girl properties.

User avatar
Rakurai
OMG CRAZY REG
Posts: 995
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2018 1:48 pm

Re: Am I The Only DB Fan Who Likes Jiren?

Post by Rakurai » Tue May 14, 2019 6:06 pm

I liked Jiren in his debut chapter in the manga. He showed a strong sense of justice to save the ppl before his talk with Toppo. And when he outright refused to get involved in the participation of other universe's destruction until the opportunity to get his wish. Conflict in one's beliefs always make for a more interesting character.

Vegeta also explained the flaws in his justice and personality very well, how seeking to be the strongest yet approval of his master was a very childish way of thinking.

I really did like the implied history between him, Belmod, and Gitcchin.

The anime made him really dull and boring, but the manga gave him a little more personality, background, and with interesting critique of his character.

I certainly did not like the Jiren who just stood there meditating and waiting for a strong opponent to come.

User avatar
PerhapsTheOtherOne
I Live Here
Posts: 2018
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2017 5:55 pm

Re: Am I The Only DB Fan Who Likes Jiren?

Post by PerhapsTheOtherOne » Tue May 14, 2019 6:38 pm

Rakurai wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 6:06 pm
I liked Jiren in his debut chapter in the manga. He showed a strong sense of justice to save the ppl before his talk with Toppo. And when he outright refused to get involved in the participation of other universe's destruction until the opportunity to get his wish. Conflict in one's beliefs always make for a more interesting character.

Vegeta also explained the flaws in his justice and personality very well, how seeking to be the strongest yet approval of his master was a very childish way of thinking.

I really did like the implied history between him, Belmod, and Gitcchin.

The anime made him really dull and boring, but the manga gave him a little more personality, background, and with interesting critique of his character.

I certainly did not like the Jiren who just stood there meditating and waiting for a strong opponent to come.
I seem to be in the minority when it comes to vocal opinions on this matter, but I entirely disagree.

I HATE the manga Jiren. I dunno, something about the "discount Superman except still an asshole" just rubs me the wrong way. The anime made strength the whole conceit of the character, driving home the theme of strength not being solely what's needed to win the tournament. I also liked his gravitas and presence more in the anime; he felt like a threat that never took our heroes seriously, but didn't have the kind of sadism or joy of previous antagonists to lighten the mood.

When anime Jiren took to the stage, you just KNEW that our heroes weren't gonna accomplish a damn thing against this monster that doesn't ever need to use anything close to his true power against them. I never got the same kind of investment from manga Jiren.

HeroR
Kicks it Old-School
Posts: 7737
Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2016 11:28 pm

Re: Am I The Only DB Fan Who Likes Jiren?

Post by HeroR » Tue May 14, 2019 7:01 pm

Rakurai wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 6:06 pm
I liked Jiren in his debut chapter in the manga. He showed a strong sense of justice to save the ppl before his talk with Toppo. And when he outright refused to get involved in the participation of other universe's destruction until the opportunity to get his wish. Conflict in one's beliefs always make for a more interesting character.

Vegeta also explained the flaws in his justice and personality very well, how seeking to be the strongest yet approval of his master was a very childish way of thinking.

I really did like the implied history between him, Belmod, and Gitcchin.

The anime made him really dull and boring, but the manga gave him a little more personality, background, and with interesting critique of his character.

I certainly did not like the Jiren who just stood there meditating and waiting for a strong opponent to come.

No, he sat down and did nothing so the rest of his team would get ring out. As 17 pointed out, Jiren was just using the Pride Troopers for his own ends, which is why he barely bothered to save them.

Which, amusingly enough Jiren did in the anime compared to the more heroic manga. Like Jiren just let Kale and later Kefla wiped out his teammates and even let Dypso and Toppo fall out of the ring, while Anime Jiren actually took Kale out after he took out one of his teammates and even saved Dypso.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

Post Reply