Uub's role after EOZ

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Muffin Man
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Re: Uub's role after EOZ

Post by Muffin Man » Sat Jul 20, 2019 12:15 pm

HeroR wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 2:25 pm
Muffin Man wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 12:44 pm
HeroR wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 1:04 pm
I take it you never watched Yu Yu Hakusho where the Dark Tournament was most of the manga and it was great. Saying that a tournament taking a place of a real arc is mind numbing. Especially when the original Dragon Ball had four tournament sagas with with two of them being low stakes.

Also, the best way to described Dragon Ball's formula in the end was that everyone acts dumb to keep the plot going.

Also, despite the Future Trunks Saga being shorter than the Dragon Ball Z arcs, it wasn't simplified since Zamasu and Black had more going for them than being evil dicks for the sake of being evil dicks.

Overall, leave the storytelling of Dragon Ball and Z in the past. If I wanted Z again, I would watched that.
A DB tournament arc is not comparable to a Yu Yu Hakusho tournament arc. DB tournament arcs are fun, but they are extremely simple and were meant to be a cool down between the main story arcs, where more diverse plot directions would occur. The two tournament arcs in DBS were written like stretched out DB tournaments, not Yu Yu Hakusho tournaments.

The Z-fighters do make a lot of stupid decisions in the Cell and Buu sagas, and that's a valid criticism, but the stupid decisions still led to lots of crazy new things happening, each event a new little mini arc basically, which keeps the audience engaged. There's a reason the Cell arc was such a popular arc despite the heroes making so many bad choices.

Zamasu having more grandiose motivations doesn't have anything to do with the complexity of the story. I'm talking about how A leads to B, which leads to C and D, while D lead to E and C leads to F, the E and F cross paths and lead to G, and so on and so forth. That's the kind of stuff we got a lot of in DB and DBZ but we only really had 12 episodes of it in Super.

No it wasn't. The three Dragon Ball tournaments were all treated as major arcs with the last one being the finale of the original Dragon Ball. Saying that they were just 'cool down arcs' just isn't true. They're no different that the Dragon Ball Super tournaments.

Crazy stuff that didn't need to happened. I prefer a shorter arc over the character acting like morons to the point that I stopped caring what happened to them. Also, the Cell Saga is far less popular in Japan than it is in the west. Probably because the west loves Cell far more than Japan ever did.

It did since it gave more to the story than 'evil asshole doing asshole things, Z-Fighters tries to stop them'. That and Super did have a lot of A goes to B.

Beerus coming to Earth led to Champa being interested in Earth which lead to the Champa Saga, the events of the Champa Saga made Zamasu jump one year into the future to used the Super Dragon Balls, which led him to murder his master. Him seeing Goku fight in the Champa's tournament also pushed him over the edge. Universal Survival Saga combine all the stories of Super together with bringing back Freeza since he got stronger in Resurrection 'F', UI being fleshed out, and the entire tournament happened because Zeno say Champa's tournament and wanted one himself. Saying it was only 12 episodes in Super shows very shallow view.
Regardless of whether or not you want to call them "cool down" arcs, the structure was still simple and straightforward. The naunce behind character interactions was nothing like Yu Yu Hakusho. It's just straight up fighting back to back until only Goku and his main opponent remain. Also, there was no division in the manga between DB and DBZ, so the 23rd WMT wasn't written to be a "finale".

The difference is the percentage of the story that they take up. The tournaments take up a huge portion of Super's story, especially if you only factor in stuff that was specifically written for Super and not a retelling of the final two DBZ movies.

I've got nothing against a shorter, more concise arc. I don't think Super was the best place to find those, though, since it only had one.

I mean, it still amounted to that, though. For all of Zamasu's talk, he was still an asshole who needed to be put into the ground. I'd say Buu was the most diverse villain in terms of how he forced the heroes to react and how they attempted to approach dealing with him.

You're talking in much more broad strokes, though. How one saga leads to another. I'm talking about how mini-arcs within a saga are structured. Like if the Zamasu saga were in DBZ, instead of ending with Zeno destroying everything, we would have gotten a new form of Zamasu, or a new villain that's even worse than he is, and the arrangement of heroes trying to stop the villain would have shifted around as the current ones were killed, went off to search for a new way to stop the villain, or left to deal with some other issue.

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Re: Uub's role after EOZ

Post by UpFromTheSkies » Sat Jul 20, 2019 5:39 pm

I really cant imagine any character taking the main role in the series other than Goku, but the implications for Uub here are interesting. I'd like to see him have a main supporting role, although I doubt it will happen until Toriyama completely retires from Dragon Ball, since he has said he has no interest in post EoZ stories

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Tai Lung
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Re: Uub's role after EOZ

Post by Tai Lung » Sat Jul 20, 2019 7:54 pm

Muffin Man wrote:
Sat Jun 29, 2019 9:33 am
The problem with Super is that it abandoned the formula without replacing it with a new one, giving it a very aimless, directionless feel. Beerus shows up and everyone sort of dicks around until Beerus fights Goku. Frieza shows up and everyone mindlessly fights a bunch of fodder until Goku and Vegeta show up to fight and defeat Frieza. A tournament arc is stretched out to take the place of a real arc. Then we get another tournament arc exept everyone fights eachother at the same time.

The only arc that followed the formula was the Zamasu arc, but it was extremely simplified and rushed due to its short length. It's like they realized ten episodes into the Zamasu arc that having an actual structured plot was too hard, so they went back to just having the characters do whatever.

So ultimately I don't think it matters if they replace Goku and Vegeta with a new generation. What needs to happen is they need to start giving the story arcs the kind of stuctured skeleton that made the original DB/Z story arcs so popular to begin with. This would, naturally, lead to more characters being relevant than just Goku and Vegeta, but whether or not it focuses mainly on Goku or mainly on Uub isn't so important as long as they're both doing something interesting that moves the plot forward.
DB OG It was much more varied than DBZ ... in reality and was not as repeated as the villain on duty ...
I would say that mainly helped the series a lot were its characters, no matter how much the formula was repeated, because I felt that the tournaments actually gave more importance to the beloved characters in the series so anyway many enjoyed their fights

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