A state higher than Ultra Instinct?

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Super Murjin
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A state higher than Ultra Instinct?

Post by Super Murjin » Mon Jun 24, 2019 4:44 pm

Will there be a higher level beyond Ultra Instinct?

The Angels, Grand Priest, Zeno and Zarama may have ki beyond god.
If that is the case then there is a good chance that Goku and Vegeta will try to attain it as well.

I hope there is nothing but Ultra Instinct and that it will be the last form/state/technique that has a huge huge level of potential. Similar to the first Super Saiyan form. Goku SSJ on Namek is way weaker than Goku SSJ (full power) in the Cell Games. He had lots of room to improve and strengthen the form. Hopefully Ultra Instinct works the same way.

But knowing how marketing works, most likely they will not keep Ultra Instinct as the final form. There will probably be another form, maybe a canon version of Super Saiyan 4, etc :shock:

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Re: A state higher than Ultra Instinct?

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Mon Jun 24, 2019 6:03 pm

Just being able to use MUI at will with no time limit or dangerous side effects would be good as a final powerup.
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Re: A state higher than Ultra Instinct?

Post by Lord Beerus » Mon Jun 24, 2019 9:22 pm

Polyphase Avatron wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 6:03 pm Just being able to use MUI at will with no time limit or dangerous side effects would be good as a final powerup.
Agreed.

We really don't need anything above Ultra Instinct. Let that be the apex ability/form that every martial artist in Dragon Ball strives to attain.

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Re: A state higher than Ultra Instinct?

Post by Simere » Mon Jun 24, 2019 9:58 pm

Ultra Instinct ruins what makes fighting interesting, so I hope to see a way to nullify or cancel it out. I'd have it be the baseline for a whole new world of mastery. This would preserve the achievement of mastering it, but two masters fighting each other would take things back to the normal elements of fighting.

Plus I'm highly opposed to the highest level being a thing we've already seen. As far as I'm concerned, there's little potential for progression until UI returns and is surpassed.

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Re: A state higher than Ultra Instinct?

Post by Akamay » Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:59 pm

As long as things don't devolve into having something like "Ultra Instinct 2" it should be fine.
Honestly, at this point, I would say the most likely thing to happen would be to have Super Saiyan with UI, kinda like how SSJ Blue is SSJ God with Super Saiyan.

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Re: A state higher than Ultra Instinct?

Post by SupremeKai25 » Tue Jun 25, 2019 3:28 am

Super Murjin wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 4:44 pm Will there be a higher level beyond Ultra Instinct?

The Angels, Grand Priest, Zeno and Zarama may have ki beyond god.
If that is the case then there is a good chance that Goku and Vegeta will try to attain it as well.

I hope there is nothing but Ultra Instinct and that it will be the last form/state/technique that has a huge huge level of potential. Similar to the first Super Saiyan form. Goku SSJ on Namek is way weaker than Goku SSJ (full power) in the Cell Games. He had lots of room to improve and strengthen the form. Hopefully Ultra Instinct works the same way.

But knowing how marketing works, most likely they will not keep Ultra Instinct as the final form. There will probably be another form, maybe a canon version of Super Saiyan 4, etc :shock:
I mean, No, why would those -Gods- have a ki beyond God? It doesn't make sense. Especially when you also consider that the Angels train the Destroyers, it just wouldn't make sense if those people did not share the same ki.

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Re: A state higher than Ultra Instinct?

Post by Super Saiyan God » Tue Jun 25, 2019 5:47 am

Akamay wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:59 pm As long as things don't devolve into having something like "Ultra Instinct 2" it should be fine.
Honestly, at this point, I would say the most likely thing to happen would be to have Super Saiyan with UI, kinda like how SSJ Blue is SSJ God with Super Saiyan.
I think so, Ultra Instinct 2 is fine too. However for that form we need at least 4-5 series to watch, because if we talk about anime after ToP arc there would be broly arc then moro then planet salad (in this arc vegeta might learned MUI form) So after this arc is probably universe 11 saga which were jirens teacher killed by evil door (whis's equal). So i think UI 2 would be used here for the 1st time.
But this wont be last long, after this saga in my theory we might get great priest as a main villain then they might fuse into UI 2 gogeta to defeat great priest however he might absorb two zeno then they defuse... So Son Goku might gather multiverse spirit bomb.
Then i guess after this point we will get probably dbs 2.0 ova i think its a zalama saga then goku would be UI 3 only. then this dbs series complety finish but for EoZ i think they might tell in the OVA replaced as dragon ball ultra then our actually new series starts here so no need UI anymore but ofc for the 1st threat of that Dragon ball Ultra he might use UI 3 just like he used regular SSJ 3 1st threat (beerus) of beginning dragon ball super.
Now after this there might be new form for them idk name but we will wait and see.

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Re: A state higher than Ultra Instinct?

Post by Alruneia » Tue Jun 25, 2019 9:54 am

As long as Super keeps going, surpassing Ultra Instinct is pretty much inevitable. New forms and powers means new merch, after all, and merch sales tend to be a pretty important factor.
Story-wise, though, it might be a good while until we get that far. Before the characters can surpass UI, they need to master using it. Goku slipped into UI once in the ToP (not counting UI Sign) and that's it so far. No UI in the Broly arc, no UI so far in the Moro arc. The next goal would be to reach UI again and actually get a grasp on how to use it at will. If the Moro arc also doesn't have any UI usage, Tori/Toyo/Toei may be planning to go through many story arcs before reaching that point.

Of course, once you've given your character(s) full access to UI, you then need to make up something that it can't beat if you want to have something that surpasses it. I'd imagine we'd end up seeing a UI vs UI match to kinda take UI to its limit, and after that, in a later arc, someone would appear that can counter UI as a concept, making it useless. That's when the heroes would go beyond UI and gain something new. It's like Cell surpassing Super Saiyan 1, and then Super Saiyan 2 appearing and surpassing Cell.
Personally I'm partial to UI being bested by the ability to plan ahead to such a degree that everything UI does can be predicted and countered, like playing chess 15 moves ahead, but I'm sure there are other ways to render UI useless too.
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Re: A state higher than Ultra Instinct?

Post by Akamay » Tue Jun 25, 2019 11:18 am

Super Saiyan God wrote: Tue Jun 25, 2019 5:47 am I think so, Ultra Instinct 2 is fine too. However for that form we need at least 4-5 series to watch, because if we talk about anime after ToP arc there would be broly arc then moro then planet salad (in this arc vegeta might learned MUI form) So after this arc is probably universe 11 saga which were jirens teacher killed by evil door (whis's equal). So i think UI 2 would be used here for the 1st time.
But this wont be last long, after this saga in my theory we might get great priest as a main villain then they might fuse into UI 2 gogeta to defeat great priest however he might absorb two zeno then they defuse... So Son Goku might gather multiverse spirit bomb.
Then i guess after this point we will get probably dbs 2.0 ova i think its a zalama saga then goku would be UI 3 only. then this dbs series complety finish but for EoZ i think they might tell in the OVA replaced as dragon ball ultra then our actually new series starts here so no need UI anymore but ofc for the 1st threat of that Dragon ball Ultra he might use UI 3 just like he used regular SSJ 3 1st threat (beerus) of beginning dragon ball super.
Now after this there might be new form for them idk name but we will wait and see.
This is assuming that UI works like SSJ. On the plus side, this would possibly allow other characters to get power boosts besides the Saiyans. Jiren and Hit could get UI in theory, but they would never be able to use Super Saiyan. If a UI2 or 3 ever happen, it would be cool if they didn't limit it to Goku and Vegeta.

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Re: A state higher than Ultra Instinct?

Post by Super Murjin » Tue Jun 25, 2019 1:12 pm

I can see it happening ..... Perfect Instinct! Calling it now. :lolno:

What dragon ball needs in general is to focus more on new techniques instead of just new forms.

I'm happy that Super Saiyan Blue has pretty well stuck around for many arcs:

Resurrection F, Universe 6, Copy-Vegeta, Future Trunks, Universal Survival, Broly & Galactic Prisoner Arcs

I remember when the Future Trunks arc came out, i was 100% sure we'd be seeing a brand new form, glad that didn't happen.

Toriyama/Toei/Toyotaro did the right thing introducing UI and not over using it and still having SSB still around.

Hopeful for how they handle the future of the franchise. :thumbup:

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Re: A state higher than Ultra Instinct?

Post by Tai Lung » Tue Jun 25, 2019 7:01 pm

Super Murjin wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 4:44 pm maybe a canon version of Super Saiyan 4, etc :shock:
there is already the ikari that has similarity
toei are not going to "sell" an old transformation that many still remember and make it go through the strongest even more when they has created a kind of rivalry between SSB and SS4.
the only way to make it canon is by creating another version of goku from another timeline like DB heroes has done.

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Re: A state higher than Ultra Instinct?

Post by GodVegetto91 » Wed Jun 26, 2019 6:33 am

There shouldn’t be for a very, very long time. UI should remain the pinnacle for now for Goku and Vegeta. Only after a dozen years can they introduce an Omni-God form where Goku will have Zeno’s powers with a rainbow colored aura and hair.

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Re: A state higher than Ultra Instinct?

Post by emperior » Wed Jun 26, 2019 8:30 am

I honestly don’t think we will see a state higher than Ultra Instinct. We will, at best, see transformations being stacked upon it. I personally don’t think Toriyama will be able to come up with something above Ultra Instinct. And I don’t think he should. The trend set from Cell arc onwards about characters having to improve through new transformation has been overused and it’s time for Dragon Ball to be rebooted in that aspect, and finally get rid of all these transformations Goku has been given. I hope that in the future we will see more of the stuff we used to have back in DB up until Saiyan arc when Goku was getting stronger through discovering new techniques and training, and not by improving during fights because of his Saiyan genetics and achieving new forms linked to his alien heritage.
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Re: A state higher than Ultra Instinct?

Post by Lionel » Wed Jun 26, 2019 10:08 am

I didn't like the fact that they turned Ultra Instinct into a pseudo-transformation for Goku in the first place. This concept only serves to continually stack onto the already oversized pile of hair colour forms that exist. No one else besides Goku and maybe Vegeta is going to use them. I say let them take a more technical approach and shift away from the transformations. The whole "greatest fighters in the universe" shtick has been in some desperate need for a more skill oriented exhibition for some time now.

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Re: A state higher than Ultra Instinct?

Post by Super Saiyan God » Wed Jun 26, 2019 10:16 am

GodVegetto91 wrote: Wed Jun 26, 2019 6:33 am There shouldn’t be for a very, very long time. UI should remain the pinnacle for now for Goku and Vegeta. Only after a dozen years can they introduce an Omni-God form where Goku will have Zeno’s powers with a rainbow colored aura and hair.
Well UI will keep until universe 11 saga but then they will get UI 2 form and then UI 2 Gogeta might be at the same level as Zeno or maybe higher immediately before EoZ but i think UI 3 will surpass all of them.
Now i think there would be hyperverse or outverse level enemy in dragon ball ultra aka next to super.

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Re: A state higher than Ultra Instinct?

Post by PerhapsTheOtherOne » Wed Jun 26, 2019 10:29 am

I'm personally hoping that any potential new forms are derived from necessitating abilities rather than strength.

For example, maybe variations on Ultra Instinct that rely on combining it with different techniques, such as Ultra Instinct and Instantaneous Movement into a UI form based around substituting traditional high-speed movement and reactions with teleportation to increase its potency and thus free up that power and speed into greater offense; stuff along those lines that don't have to up the power level gap yet again.

I'd hate for just straight up power escalation that has permeated the series for so long.

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Re: A state higher than Ultra Instinct?

Post by GodVegetto91 » Wed Jun 26, 2019 10:41 am

Super Saiyan God wrote: Wed Jun 26, 2019 10:16 am
GodVegetto91 wrote: Wed Jun 26, 2019 6:33 am There shouldn’t be for a very, very long time. UI should remain the pinnacle for now for Goku and Vegeta. Only after a dozen years can they introduce an Omni-God form where Goku will have Zeno’s powers with a rainbow colored aura and hair.
Well UI will keep until universe 11 saga but then they will get UI 2 form and then UI 2 Gogeta might be at the same level as Zeno or maybe higher immediately before EoZ but i think UI 3 will surpass all of them.
Now i think there would be hyperverse or outverse level enemy in dragon ball ultra aka next to super.
No that’s just stupid. Ultra Instinct should remain Ultra Instinct. No different versions of it, no meddling with it. Base Ultra Instinct should be the only form of Ultra Instinct. I wouldn’t like the idea of a Super Saiyan version of it, and than a 2, and a 3, it would defeat the entire purpose of the form, which is already complete on it’s own. Furthermore, further transformations on top of it are totally unneccesary, since MUI Goku can just improve his power level through fighting, training, reaching zenkais etc. (The old fashioned way) keep in mind that over the course of Super, Goku’s SSJ Blue form got many dozens of times stronger through everything he’s been through.

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Re: A state higher than Ultra Instinct?

Post by Zamasu55 » Wed Jun 26, 2019 11:17 am

I sure hope not.

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Re: A state higher than Ultra Instinct?

Post by sintzu » Wed Jun 26, 2019 11:20 am

With how long they've gone using Blue, I believe UI will be the highest level for a very long time. There's currently no sign of Blue being replaced let alone UI.
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Re: A state higher than Ultra Instinct?

Post by Dbzfan94 » Wed Jun 26, 2019 11:48 am

Super Ultra instinct where his hair turns purple.

and then Mastered Super Ultra Instinct the hair color is green

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