The Anime's ToP or the Manga's ToP? Which one did you prefer?

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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The Anime's ToP or the Manga's ToP? Which one did you prefer?

Post by DestructoDisc » Wed Jul 31, 2019 6:00 am

A lot of people on other forums consider the manga's ToP to be better since they think it didn't drag anything out, while a lot of other people think the anime's ToP is better because they consider the manga's ToP to be rushed.

What do you guys think? Which one was better, the manga's ToP or the anime's ToP?

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Re: The Anime's ToP or the Manga's ToP? Which one did you prefer?

Post by Alruneia » Wed Jul 31, 2019 7:24 am

Personally I'm undecided but leaning towards the manga. In general I prefer the manga ToP, since it doesn't drag on and on, it doesn't give everyone and their dog new transformations, and it treats Ultra Instinct better. However, it's also missing many of the great character interactions and moments that the anime provided. Katopesla, for example, was a treat in the anime and a waste in the manga.

I'll just go into a few topics:
- Kefla and the U6 saiyans. I vastly prefer the manga iterations of the U6 saiyans, and I wish I had the ability to say I prefer manga Kefla as well, but I just can't. Toyotaro had a great idea in giving us Gohan vs Kefla, but then he barely showed us any of it. It should have been expanded upon. I don't like anime Kefla too much, especially not how she was powered into the heavens but then just used to give Goku UI Sign again, but on its end, the manga just really doesn't show us enough, so I have to go with "undecided".

- Ultra Instinct. While the anime may have the "hype moments" and whatnot, Ultra Instinct is treated like some kind of powerup ("Goku Blanco") when it's really just supposed to be a martial arts technique. In the manga, Ultra Instinct is treated much more like the technique it's supposed to be. ("Attacks that exploit openings are not true strength!" - Jiren) The way UI is achieved in the manga is strange to some people, since it's inspired by Master Roshi, but personally I find it more acceptable than the whole Spirit Bomb scene. For me, the manga wins here.

- Minor characters. While the anime did set up a kind of "everyone waits their turn to fight Universe 7" formula, which is a really bad format when it's supposed to be a battle royale, it did manage to give almost every character their time in the spotlight. The manga didn't use that kind of format, and that's good, but by not doing so it instead threw a lot of characters out of the fight without giving them anything. The question is if the format is more important than the characters, and in this case, in my opinion, the characters win out. For me, the anime wins here.
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Re: The Anime's ToP or the Manga's ToP? Which one did you prefer?

Post by Lord Beerus » Wed Jul 31, 2019 11:59 am

I really liked Toyotaro's introduction of Jiren, Caulifla, Kale, and the power scaling was more tolerable, but that's about it. I find the Toei interpenetration of the Tournament Of Power far better nearly every aspect. That being said, both mediums suffer from horrendous pacing issues, terrible character writing and horrible misuse the concept of the battle royal.

So it's really more of a case of picking which version has less fuck ups.

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Re: The Anime's ToP or the Manga's ToP? Which one did you prefer?

Post by Grimlock » Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:51 pm

I'd prefer the tournament not to exist at all but if I have to pick one... Toei's version, as it gave Super Saiyan 2 more screentime and it brought more wonderful images/scenes of said form.

It really sucks that Cabba, Caulifla and Kafla don't have Super Saiyan 2 in the manga.

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Re: The Anime's ToP or the Manga's ToP? Which one did you prefer?

Post by Koitsukai » Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:14 am

I prefer the anime, but I re-read the manga not too long ago and I've found it to be quite better than what I remembered from reading it once a month. I still prefer Toei's as a whole, even though the manga's first part and maybe the middle part too of the ToP are better than the anime IMO.
The manga's final showdown is my problem, it just failed for me, Jiren ends up taking the win against MUI Goku, I was not satisfied with it and with the way Freeza ended up taking the win. Android 17's fake death was much better done, the plan they came up with was actually sort of good, Goku and Vegeta had some teamwork that was nice to see but I don't know, it just falls flat next to MUI Goku destroying Jiren like a boss, anime Jiren was so goddamn strong, he was asking for a bashing so bad, I mean people around the world actually gathered to watch this fight live... Freeza teaming up with Goku, that also was just mindblowing, Vegeta dying inside a little, everyone cheering for Freeza like it was the World Cup Final's last minute, I'm reliving it while writing it down, it was so good it overcomes the lousy parts. Toyo had no chance, Toei put the bar too high with those last 3 episodes.

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Re: The Anime's ToP or the Manga's ToP? Which one did you prefer?

Post by RandomGuy96 » Thu Aug 01, 2019 8:12 pm

The manga's by far. Mainly for four reasons:

1. It's nowhere near as long and droning, a flaw that rendered the anime ToP borderline unwatchable. This probably matters more than all other factors combined.

2. As a result of the above, the manga's ToP actually feels like a chaotic, 48-minute free-for-all, a tone that's entirely missing in the anime, where everyone drags out their fights as long as humanly possible, and characters change both battle powers and motivations between episodes in order to facilitate as much filler as can be crammed into the time frame.

3. Because it cut the chaff of the fodder universes, the new characters who the story actually somewhat focuses on are either far improved (e.g. Jiren) or, at the very least, much less insufferably annoying (e.g. Kale).

4. Continuing on the above: the main antagonist is just flat-out better characterized, in less screen time too.

All the anime really has going for it are a few good fight scenes (which are pointless and without tension if the circumstances dictating them are entirely arbitrary), a few good tracks, and Goku's first MUI 'transformation.'
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Re: The Anime's ToP or the Manga's ToP? Which one did you prefer?

Post by Miracles » Thu Aug 01, 2019 8:37 pm

Story wise and flow, the manga's.

Fight scenes wise, the anime's.

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Re: The Anime's ToP or the Manga's ToP? Which one did you prefer?

Post by Nightbane » Thu Aug 01, 2019 9:22 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 11:59 am
I really liked Toyotaro's introduction of Jiren, Caulifla, Kale, and the power scaling was more tolerable, but that's about it. I find the Toei interpenetration of the Tournament Of Power far better nearly every aspect. That being said, both mediums suffer from horrendous pacing issues, terrible character writing and horrible misuse the concept of the battle royal.

So it's really more of a case of picking which version has less fuck ups.
Man I'm really confused, you used to praise the ToP to high heavens and back, and you used to consider it one of the best arcs in all of DB, I remember seeing you place it in the top 3. Now all I see you is crap on it these days lol, I'm not really sure what happened but oh well I guess.

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Re: The Anime's ToP or the Manga's ToP? Which one did you prefer?

Post by Kataphrut » Fri Aug 02, 2019 5:01 am

Anine takes it by a country mile for me. It set a standard for the concept that Toyotaro failed to live up to, and the manga ended up feeling like the cliff-notes version as a result.

What says it all is that people are going to "remember" the iconography of the anime Tournament more. The debut of Ultra Instinct, Goku vs Kefla, most of the universes' last stand (4 need not apply), MUI Goku v Jiren and the finale. Those are all big, memorable sequences that the manga just didn't live up to, and its replacements for those moments felt hollow by comparison.

The anime version was padded to high hell, that's it's biggest flaw. But Toyotaro rushing through everything, skipping most of the recruitment and minor battles didn't *fix* the problem, it just created a different one. When two of the big draws of the arc are out-of-focus characters like Gohan, Piccolo, the Androids and the humans getting to shine, and meeting lots of different quirky fighters from other universes, I'll take the one that spends too much time on them over the one that skips through all that to get to Goku and Vegeta vs the big bad. If all I wanted was Goku and Vegeta vs the big bad, I could watch literally any other story arc of Super.

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Re: The Anime's ToP or the Manga's ToP? Which one did you prefer?

Post by Lord Beerus » Fri Aug 02, 2019 6:59 am

Nightbane wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 9:22 pm
Lord Beerus wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 11:59 am
I really liked Toyotaro's introduction of Jiren, Caulifla, Kale, and the power scaling was more tolerable, but that's about it. I find the Toei interpenetration of the Tournament Of Power far better nearly every aspect. That being said, both mediums suffer from horrendous pacing issues, terrible character writing and horrible misuse the concept of the battle royal.

So it's really more of a case of picking which version has less fuck ups.
Man I'm really confused, you used to praise the ToP to high heavens and back, and you used to consider it one of the best arcs in all of DB, I remember seeing you place it in the top 3. Now all I see you is crap on it these days lol, I'm not really sure what happened but oh well I guess.
Rewatches of that arc have not done it any favors. It's the same situation I had with the Cell arc a while back. If you asked me 10 years ago which arc was my favorite from the "Z" portion of the story, I would have said the Cell arc in a heartbeat. Now I think it's the worst part of the story after watching it over again with a far greater eye for detail.

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Re: The Anime's ToP or the Manga's ToP? Which one did you prefer?

Post by wolflonnie » Fri Aug 02, 2019 7:51 am

Anime but it's not even a comparison.
The manga version is a rushed, boring, unsatisfing mess, of which I can only remember the Jiren vs Roshi battle because of how ridicolous the idea is.
The anime version is entertaining and interesting overall, with interesting dialogues and chit-chats here and there, nice battles and strategy, plus many glorious moments.

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Re: The Anime's ToP or the Manga's ToP? Which one did you prefer?

Post by TobyS » Fri Aug 02, 2019 11:08 am

Far prefer the manga.

While the humans get less to do they actually look less negligent and stupid. They are just victims of freezas strategy.

Everyone elses fights don't wait for goku to arrive and butt in for no reason, which is what totally stopped the anime version being even possible to speed up to forty whatever minutes.

Vegetas a nicer cooler more mature guy in the manga.

Jiren isn't needlessy overhyped breaking out of the time cage, Goku just doesn't team up with Hit to beat him.

Hit has improved as a martial artist in his own right probably inspired by Goku.

No mafuuba which requires an outside item which is supposed to be against the rules and should kill Roshi to use on a top tier guy.

Gohan is ToP tier, ultimate state brings out his potential and as a hybrid he has more potential than Goku or Geets who are now stronger than old Ultimate Gohan...

New u6 saiyans aren't too over hyped and over powered. Freeza maintains he was sandbagging and could beat Kale and she tires and gets owned by fodder.

Keflas lower as she realistically should be and Gohans higher as he should be and they meet in the middle. Gohans contribution means Goku doesn't have to get tired fighting both of them...

Goku doesn't have the immersion breaking magically restoring stamina and Jiren doesn't look like a complete dumbass letting Goku gradually grow strong enough to fight him.

I just prefer it. Not so much fucking noise from the stands either from Kuririn and others...
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Re: The Anime's ToP or the Manga's ToP? Which one did you prefer?

Post by omegacwa » Fri Aug 02, 2019 11:18 am

My only real gripes with the Manga ToP is some characters get wasted way too quickly. The bond between Cabba and Vegeta is not touched upon at all and Vegeta's evolution transformation doesn't look distinct enough (and people complain the anime version doesn't look unique :think: ) Also no GoD Toppo.

That's pretty much it. Otherwise I thought it was ok.

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Re: The Anime's ToP or the Manga's ToP? Which one did you prefer?

Post by Dragon Wukong » Sat Aug 03, 2019 2:20 pm

Alruneia wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 7:24 am
Personally I'm undecided but leaning towards the manga. In general I prefer the manga ToP, since it doesn't drag on and on, it doesn't give everyone and their dog new transformations, and it treats Ultra Instinct better. However, it's also missing many of the great character interactions and moments that the anime provided. Katopesla, for example, was a treat in the anime and a waste in the manga.

I'll just go into a few topics:
- Kefla and the U6 saiyans. I vastly prefer the manga iterations of the U6 saiyans, and I wish I had the ability to say I prefer manga Kefla as well, but I just can't. Toyotaro had a great idea in giving us Gohan vs Kefla, but then he barely showed us any of it. It should have been expanded upon. I don't like anime Kefla too much, especially not how she was powered into the heavens but then just used to give Goku UI Sign again, but on its end, the manga just really doesn't show us enough, so I have to go with "undecided".

- Ultra Instinct. While the anime may have the "hype moments" and whatnot, Ultra Instinct is treated like some kind of powerup ("Goku Blanco") when it's really just supposed to be a martial arts technique. In the manga, Ultra Instinct is treated much more like the technique it's supposed to be. ("Attacks that exploit openings are not true strength!" - Jiren) The way UI is achieved in the manga is strange to some people, since it's inspired by Master Roshi, but personally I find it more acceptable than the whole Spirit Bomb scene. For me, the manga wins here.

- Minor characters. While the anime did set up a kind of "everyone waits their turn to fight Universe 7" formula, which is a really bad format when it's supposed to be a battle royale, it did manage to give almost every character their time in the spotlight. The manga didn't use that kind of format, and that's good, but by not doing so it instead threw a lot of characters out of the fight without giving them anything. The question is if the format is more important than the characters, and in this case, in my opinion, the characters win out. For me, the anime wins here.
Summed up most of my opinions, but to add one thing, Frost and Frieza's "team up" was an actual team up in the manga, and Frost felt more like a genuine threat that Frieza helped remove. I think the manga definitely won with that.

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Re: The Anime's ToP or the Manga's ToP? Which one did you prefer?

Post by ZombieVito » Sat Aug 03, 2019 3:59 pm

Anime and it's not even a contest.

Manga is simply worse at everything. Not a single elimination is better than the anime's, characterisation is incredibly poor, especially Vegeta and I honestly don't find a single fight interesting.

The way Kuririn went out still makes me mad.

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Re: The Anime's ToP or the Manga's ToP? Which one did you prefer?

Post by Alruneia » Sat Aug 03, 2019 5:02 pm

Dragon Wukong wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 2:20 pm
Summed up most of my opinions, but to add one thing, Frost and Frieza's "team up" was an actual team up in the manga, and Frost felt more like a genuine threat that Frieza helped remove. I think the manga definitely won with that.
That's a good addition. I also prefer the manga version of the Frost/Frieza team-up. It did waste some characters, and I know a lot of people won't look past that (I did also mention character waste as a point against the manga myself), but it's a much more thorough work of deception by Frieza and it fits him well, so I can accept it.
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Re: The Anime's ToP or the Manga's ToP? Which one did you prefer?

Post by Gokitalo » Sun Sep 01, 2019 2:38 am

I'd have to say the anime, honestly. It just had way more room to breathe, and we got to learn a lot about the fighters from the other universes. The manga ToP, on the other hand, felt like Toyotaro was in a hurry to get everybody knocked off, so he picked a small handful of the more powerful or sneaker characters to pull it off (Kale, Freeza, etc). Plus having Roshi of all people be able to successfully dodge Jiren... I get Toyotaro (and I suppose Toriyama) saw it as a way to give Roshi an important role in the story, but it's just way too unbelievable. I won't deny that the Destroyer Exhibition Match was cool, however.

I also felt the anime version of the ToP was a lot stronger emotionally. You could really feel the weight and sorrow whenever a universe was eliminated: Gohan's guilt over dooming a world (and Piccolo's note-perfect reaction) is a scene my mind always goes back to. Not to mention that some of the eliminations (e.g. Kefla's and Jiren's) were pretty exhilarating to watch; the manga eliminations, not so much.

As for the pacing of the anime version, I didn't really find the the tournament itself that drawn out: just the lead up to it. Though the exhibition and practice matches were fun.
Alruneia wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 5:02 pm
That's a good addition. I also prefer the manga version of the Frost/Frieza team-up. It did waste some characters, and I know a lot of people won't look past that (I did also mention character waste as a point against the manga myself), but it's a much more thorough work of deception by Frieza and it fits him well, so I can accept it.
You know, I actually liked the anime version a little more, as it gave us one of my favorite Omni-King(s) moments. A lot of the best Zeno scenes are the ones where he reminds us just how scary he can be (there's a reason they play up his cuteness a lot: it's meant to be a diversion), and I thought the Kings' elimination of Frost was a perfect example of that. I think the earlier "scary Zeno" scenes from the Trunks saga were Toyotaro and Toriyama's idea (as the scenes appeared in both the anime AND the manga), so it was very cool to see the anime staff pick up on that and follow up with a scene of their own.

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Re: The Anime's ToP or the Manga's ToP? Which one did you prefer?

Post by Nokra » Sun Sep 01, 2019 5:32 pm

The anime. How could anyone prefer the trash mangas? They probably just don't like the anime in general so picked the manga by default?

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Re: The Anime's ToP or the Manga's ToP? Which one did you prefer?

Post by ankokudaishogun » Sun Sep 01, 2019 5:46 pm

Ii wonder: would those who like the manga version like it AS MUCH if the anime version didn't exist?

Because it's quite likely that Toyotaro eliminated many characters so fast it's because they were already given focus in the anime, so he felt he could mostly skip them

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Re: The Anime's ToP or the Manga's ToP? Which one did you prefer?

Post by Tai Lung » Sun Sep 01, 2019 8:44 pm

DestructoDisc wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 6:00 am
A lot of people on other forums consider the manga's ToP to be better since they think it didn't drag anything out, while a lot of other people think the anime's ToP is better because they consider the manga's ToP to be rushed.

What do you guys think? Which one was better, the manga's ToP or the anime's ToP?
the only thing I can recognize to toyotaro which version of the zamasu arc is superior to the animated version and that its type of comedy in general has remained better but already speaking of the tournament of power I see no comparison ... there is no reason for this so hurried because the tournament was not just complementary, it was literally the entire arc,
What was important?
1 the interactions between warriors, character development and character participation
2 battles, strategies, teamwork, rescue and elimination.
3 creative power and abilities by having a diversity of warriors from other universes


However, while the anime did well, this was not the case with manga, there is no character development and many warriors do not even have a characterization
the battles are only physical and without creative skills I'm sorry but for me that is just laziness and lack of interest.

4 universe 6, I prefer anime
Caulifla may be somewhat exaggerated but at this point there was no reason to bother (goten and trunks) and taking into account that he was a genius in combat and besides that it would be important for the formation of kefla in retrospect her level was perfectly justified
her interaction with goku was one of the most interesting due to his personalities as well as learning a lot from him

Kale didn't learn from other warriors but she achieved her goal. She wanted to be stronger to help her team and support her sister that only happened because of her interaction with Goku.

cabba got the ssj2 and thanks to his relationship with vegeta he learned more about saiyan pride

in the manga
Caulifla is weaker, he doesn't know how to feel the ki ... and he's a human punching bag is this the supposed genius?

kale is just power and without any development, her relationship with caulifla does not exist and she is more boring than jiren himself

Cabba has a forced and incoherent participation just to look good but none of the 3 won anything or learned anything and if in that version cabba have more skill than caulifla because he didn't merge with kale?

5 toppo and dyspo anime >>>> toppo and dyspo manga

6 ultra instinct


I liked that the ultra instinct is maintained as a skill in the manga but taking into account moments like Roshi vs. Jiren, the fact that he can no longer use it and the fact that with it he not got a single elimination ... I prefer the anime

7 goku and frieza defeats jiren is one of the best moments of the franchise which will be remembered for a long time is not the same in the manga.

8 finally .. the premise that goku was impressed by the warriors of other universes something that remains in the anime as in the movies makes no sense in the manga.

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