Gohan vs. Dyspo or Gohan vs. Kefla: Who was the better final opponent for Gohan in the ToP?

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Gohan vs. Dyspo or Gohan vs. Kefla: Who was the better final opponent for Gohan in the ToP?

Post by Rebel_Yeh » Mon Aug 26, 2019 9:05 am

For those of you who’ve seen both versions of Super, who was the better final opponent for Gohan in the Tournament of Power, Dyspo or Kefla?

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Re: Gohan vs. Dyspo or Gohan vs. Kefla: Who was the better final opponent for Gohan in the ToP?

Post by TobyS » Mon Aug 26, 2019 10:20 am

Kefla. Gohan is a super prodigy with potential far outside goku and geets. He has the most precedent for random power ups and he's had a ritual done which is supposed to make him max power all the time.

Kale and Cauli are not overly buffed in the manga, they are new young saiyans. Freeza was confident he could solo Kale on his own.

She's a fusion but so was Gotenks and Gohan was stronger than him as SS3. So SS1/2 Kale being weaker than Gohan makes total sense.

Dypso is just a random purple rabbit.

Also narratively it was much better done that Goku doesn't but into every single fight. By Gohan taking her on he's able to prevent Goku losing to Jiren because he's too tired after fighting her and others.

It would have been a bit better with a few more pages but such is life.
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Re: Gohan vs. Dyspo or Gohan vs. Kefla: Who was the better final opponent for Gohan in the ToP?

Post by Koitsukai » Mon Aug 26, 2019 1:57 pm

Kefla, too bad Toyo showed nothing of that fight. So is hard for me to not prefer the fight against Dyspo where Gohan displayed strategy, teamwork and the determination to do whatever it takes to win.

Better opponent: Kefla
Better fight: vs Dyspo, can't speak of Kefla's fight, never seen it. No one has.

So, I'll go with the idea of the manga but with the execution of the anime. If we could blend them together(along with manga's gi) that'd be great.

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Re: Gohan vs. Dyspo or Gohan vs. Kefla: Who was the better final opponent for Gohan in the ToP?

Post by Lord Beerus » Mon Aug 26, 2019 2:02 pm

I would have said Kefla, if Toyotaro actually bothered to provide the context that Gohan could actually take on her and not get squashed like bug. This is one of the few instances where Toyotaro unfortunately went Toei fan-wank and placed Gohan in combative scenario he had no right to be in but placed him there anyway because he wanted him to have his moment in the sun... which in the end, never happened, ironically.

Dyspo may not have been shown as the strongest warrior Gohan could have gone up against, but his speed led to (nearly) every conflict involving him having to use some form of ingenuity being necessary to overcome him battle.

So, Kefla would have been the better opponent in principle, while Dyspo was the better final opponent in practice.

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Re: Gohan vs. Dyspo or Gohan vs. Kefla: Who was the better final opponent for Gohan in the ToP?

Post by Tai Lung » Mon Aug 26, 2019 4:19 pm

Rebel_Yeh wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 9:05 am
For those of you who’ve seen both versions of Super, who was the better final opponent for Gohan in the Tournament of Power, Dyspo or Kefla?

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The fight of Gohan vs Kefla was off panel, ones few strokes and they were already tired, the opponents have nothing in common and therefore there is no chemistry, they have a Gohan denying their Saiyan heritage as well as being quite inconsistent.

dyspo had in common with Gohan that both are heroes of justice who fulfilled the role of strategist. the alliance with frieza made it more interesting, putting the risk in a physical battle where everything was resolved between technique and skill
and although the sacrifice of gohan can be criticized it was really necessary and he defeat one of the most powerful, pride troopers

I like much more gohan vs dyspo

and goku vs kefla has the best kamehameha ever

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TobyS wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 10:20 am
Kefla. Gohan is a super prodigy with potential far outside goku and geets. He has the most precedent for random power ups and he's had a ritual done which is supposed to make him max power all the time.

Kale and Cauli are not overly buffed in the manga, they are new young saiyans. Freeza was confident he could solo Kale on his own.

She's a fusion but so was Gotenks and Gohan was stronger than him as SS3. So SS1/2 Kale being weaker than Gohan makes total sense.
the frieza thing is dabtible because kale made him bleed and goku thought it necessary to help him
it makes no sense because of the comments of vados that kefla could beat everyone in the tournament (except jiren) gives gohan an overly exaggerated and undeserved power
TobyS wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 10:20 am
Dypso is just a random purple rabbit.

Also narratively it was much better done that Goku doesn't but into every single fight. By Gohan taking her on he's able to prevent Goku losing to Jiren because he's too tired after fighting her and others.

It would have been a bit better with a few more pages but such is life.
I would agree with dyspo and toppo in the manga
in the anime it was not the case, jiren, toppo and dyspo were the 3 strongest pride troopers besides dyso had fought with several opponents god level

Again, the problem was everything that had been established before, Kale eminating 4 universes and beating Golden Frieza, comments of vados /champa, comments of piccolo and the fusion pothala, all make understand that Gohan must have been humiliated in that fight.

I still think that Kefla shouldn't have existed in the manga for the final fight to be Gohan vs. Kale Lengendary

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Re: Gohan vs. Dyspo or Gohan vs. Kefla: Who was the better final opponent for Gohan in the ToP?

Post by infermon » Tue Aug 27, 2019 8:48 pm

Of the two, Kefla by far. The anime's depiction of Dyspo as one of Universe 11's big three was all tell and no show; he was simply never an intimidating presence, nor an effective foil for Gohan. He was, to his very end, a nothing character. With Kefla, there was at least promise in the idea of her, a Super Saiyan 2 Potara fusion representing the franchise's transformation bloat, going up against an untransformed-and-reconciled-with-his-human-heritage Son Gohan. Just a shame the manga did nothing to earn that idea, and off-screened the majority of it.

To my dying breath I will retain the notion that Toppo was the perfect foil for Gohan and that haphazardly pairing him with Vegeta because "uhhh they're both the second fiddles I guess haha?" was one of the biggest missteps of both mediums' take on the arc, though.

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Re: Gohan vs. Dyspo or Gohan vs. Kefla: Who was the better final opponent for Gohan in the ToP?

Post by Jackalope89 » Tue Aug 27, 2019 11:01 pm

If anything had been done with the Kefla vs Gohan fight, as well as at least half of the character dynamic that the anime showed between Kale and Caulifla, it would have won. Instead, it was a big "meh".

Gohan vs Dyspo, as ragtag as it sounds just from naming them, worked far better. Dyspo's speed was a major issue for the U7 Fighters, and being essentially the Flash for the Pride Troopers (Flash from DC Comics is MUCH more than just running real fast, seriously). The fight, and subsequent team up with Freeza of all people (Gohan also has little reason to like such a thing, remember), make it far better.

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Re: Gohan vs. Dyspo or Gohan vs. Kefla: Who was the better final opponent for Gohan in the ToP?

Post by Kataphrut » Wed Aug 28, 2019 4:22 am

Dyspo was better. Gohan didn't have the connection with Kale and Caulifla that made Goku's fight with them so enjoyable. Defeating Dyspo gave him an opportunity to show his strength and battle strategy against an opponent that wouldn't push the friendship with the power-scalers like it would if he'd beaten Toppo or Jiren. His relationship with Freeza throughout the arc was an underrated gem as well. He was the only one of the major U7 fighters who respected Gohan's leadership, albeit in a slimy sarcastic way, so having the two of them work together was a nice capper for that.

Plus, you know...they actually showed the fight with Dyspo. It wasn't a particularly good fight, an off-day episode for the animators, but Toyotaro couldn't even clear that low bar.

I still wish there was a version of the tournament which followed through on the 'Haruka' ending promise and actually had Gohan carry it all the way to the end with Goku. It would have been appropriate for the focus he received in the recruitment arc. But in the end, the surprise Freeza/17 finale was too good to pass up.

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Re: Gohan vs. Dyspo or Gohan vs. Kefla: Who was the better final opponent for Gohan in the ToP?

Post by HeroR » Wed Aug 28, 2019 12:31 pm

infermon wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 8:48 pm
Of the two, Kefla by far. The anime's depiction of Dyspo as one of Universe 11's big three was all tell and no show; he was simply never an intimidating presence, nor an effective foil for Gohan. He was, to his very end, a nothing character. With Kefla, there was at least promise in the idea of her, a Super Saiyan 2 Potara fusion representing the franchise's transformation bloat, going up against an untransformed-and-reconciled-with-his-human-heritage Son Gohan. Just a shame the manga did nothing to earn that idea, and off-screened the majority of it.

To my dying breath I will retain the notion that Toppo was the perfect foil for Gohan and that haphazardly pairing him with Vegeta because "uhhh they're both the second fiddles I guess haha?" was one of the biggest missteps of both mediums' take on the arc, though.
Kelfa in the manga never got Super Saiyan 2. She was only a Super Saiyan.


As for which fight was better, Dypso vs Gohan and Freeza wins by default since the anime, even with recycled animation, at least bothered showed us the dang fight. Gohan's fight was not only off-paneled and it wasn't even the main focused of the chapter that gave us UI Roshi and Omen Goku.

That and anime showed a rare time of Gohan using his brain and found a way to disabled Dypso's extreme speed. Gohan was only blown out of the ring because Freeza messed up. Which is another thing, the dynamic between Goku and Freeza was A+.

The final nail in the coffin is Gohan's 'I want to train as a human', which makes no sense since Gohan is as strong as he is because he's a Hybrid. And him getting his power unlocked had nothing to do with him training as a human.
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Re: Gohan vs. Dyspo or Gohan vs. Kefla: Who was the better final opponent for Gohan in the ToP?

Post by wolflonnie » Wed Aug 28, 2019 12:56 pm

infermon wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 8:48 pm
Of the two, Kefla by far. The anime's depiction of Dyspo as one of Universe 11's big three was all tell and no show; he was simply never an intimidating presence, nor an effective foil for Gohan. He was, to his very end, a nothing character. With Kefla, there was at least promise in the idea of her, a Super Saiyan 2 Potara fusion representing the franchise's transformation bloat, going up against an untransformed-and-reconciled-with-his-human-heritage Son Gohan. Just a shame the manga did nothing to earn that idea, and off-screened the majority of it.

To my dying breath I will retain the notion that Toppo was the perfect foil for Gohan and that haphazardly pairing him with Vegeta because "uhhh they're both the second fiddles I guess haha?" was one of the biggest missteps of both mediums' take on the arc, though.
Right. Then Dyspo blitzing people left and right was just Belmod telling us he's fast. We didn't see a thing of it.

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Re: Gohan vs. Dyspo or Gohan vs. Kefla: Who was the better final opponent for Gohan in the ToP?

Post by sunsetshimmer » Wed Aug 28, 2019 1:23 pm

Kefla all the way, even though with her power level she should beat Gohan with single punch in face. Gohan being able to fight against her is huge bs and one of the very few thing manga did worse than anime.
Dyspo is boring character with boring design. He doesn't work as part of top 3 fighters from Jiren's universe and never felt like a formidable opponent.
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Re: Gohan vs. Dyspo or Gohan vs. Kefla: Who was the better final opponent for Gohan in the ToP?

Post by Tai Lung » Wed Aug 28, 2019 2:53 pm

infermon wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 8:48 pm
Of the two, Kefla by far. The anime's depiction of Dyspo as one of Universe 11's big three was all tell and no show; he was simply never an intimidating presence, nor an effective foil for Gohan. He was, to his very end, a nothing character. With Kefla, there was at least promise in the idea of her, a Super Saiyan 2 Potara fusion representing the franchise's transformation bloat, going up against an untransformed-and-reconciled-with-his-human-heritage Son Gohan. Just a shame the manga did nothing to earn that idea, and off-screened the majority of it.

To my dying breath I will retain the notion that Toppo was the perfect foil for Gohan and that haphazardly pairing him with Vegeta because "uhhh they're both the second fiddles I guess haha?" was one of the biggest missteps of both mediums' take on the arc, though.
wolflonnie wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 12:56 pm
Right. Then Dyspo blitzing people left and right was just Belmod telling us he's fast. We didn't see a thing of it.
goku SSG recognizes his power in facing him ...
dyspo almost eliminates frieza, in addition to damaging it.
dyspo managed to damage to hit

dyspo fight against several god level opponents

so we would also have to set foot on the ground ... gohan had not trained enough to face someone superior to the SSG.
he was the most suitable opponent for the current gohan.

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Re: Gohan vs. Dyspo or Gohan vs. Kefla: Who was the better final opponent for Gohan in the ToP?

Post by Kataphrut » Thu Aug 29, 2019 11:16 am

People really sleep on Dyspo. Of course he's going to look bad compared to Jiren and Toppo, but the dude was still a serious threat to Freeza and Hit, and even Goku acknowledged his abilities. He's actually pretty effective- certainly a better example of a speed focused warrior than Burter, who didn't do anything with his speed in combat, and was all talk.

What are people talking about when they say better final opponent anyway? Is it which one is stronger, which would obviously be Kefla, or which one is more appropriate for Gohan to be able to beat? Cos if it's the latter, Dyspo is less egregious considering Gohan had only just come back from being a weakling the last time he fought in Res F. I thought the power-scaling mob was more Team Manga- when the Toyo Tournament of Power first started, there was praise for Tien and Krillin's quick anti-climactic eliminations because obviously weaklings like them had no place being there. But then he did a 180 on that with Gohan defeating a much stronger opponent with even less buildup than he got in the anime, in the same chapter that had UI Roshi vs Jiren no less, and that was apparently fine?

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Re: Gohan vs. Dyspo or Gohan vs. Kefla: Who was the better final opponent for Gohan in the ToP?

Post by Lord Beerus » Thu Aug 29, 2019 3:03 pm

Kataphrut wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 11:16 am
People really sleep on Dyspo. Of course he's going to look bad compared to Jiren and Toppo, but the dude was still a serious threat to Freeza and Hit, and even Goku acknowledged his abilities. He's actually pretty effective- certainly a better example of a speed focused warrior than Burter, who didn't do anything with his speed in combat, and was all talk.
Dyspo, at least in the anime, is one of the aspects of the TOP I look back on with much more fondness than before. He shown to be a major threat to some of the heavy hitters in the tournament, but still has a reasonable amount of vulnerability that allows for him to be defeated without feeling like you have to go over the top with him. You just have to approach his style of combat with right amount savvy and you can defeat him. It's a wonderful balance of strength and strategy with that guy.

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Re: Gohan vs. Dyspo or Gohan vs. Kefla: Who was the better final opponent for Gohan in the ToP?

Post by TheSaiyanGod » Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:56 pm

Kataphrut wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 4:22 am
Dyspo was better. Gohan didn't have the connection with Kale and Caulifla that made Goku's fight with them so enjoyable. Defeating Dyspo gave him an opportunity to show his strength and battle strategy against an opponent that wouldn't push the friendship with the power-scalers like it would if he'd beaten Toppo or Jiren. His relationship with Freeza throughout the arc was an underrated gem as well. He was the only one of the major U7 fighters who respected Gohan's leadership, albeit in a slimy sarcastic way, so having the two of them work together was a nice capper for that.

Plus, you know...they actually showed the fight with Dyspo. It wasn't a particularly good fight, an off-day episode for the animators, but Toyotaro couldn't even clear that low bar.

I still wish there was a version of the tournament which followed through on the 'Haruka' ending promise and actually had Gohan carry it all the way to the end with Goku. It would have been appropriate for the focus he received in the recruitment arc. But in the end, the surprise Freeza/17 finale was too good to pass up.
Gohan had more connection with Kefla than with Dyspo. At least in the manga they talked briefly and seemed to have created some kind of relationship in the end before they were eliminated. The biggest problem is that we saw almost nothing of the fight between the two, so it doesn't seem like a really big opponent to Gohan (though it's the merger of two Saiyans, and one of them defeated most of the ToP warriors)
HeroR wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 12:31 pm
That and anime showed a rare time of Gohan using his brain and found a way to disabled Dypso's extreme speed. Gohan was only blown out of the ring because Freeza messed up. Which is another thing, the dynamic between Goku and Freeza was A+.

The final nail in the coffin is Gohan's 'I want to train as a human', which makes no sense since Gohan is as strong as he is because he's a Hybrid. And him getting his power unlocked had nothing to do with him training as a human.
Gohan in the anime said he would not turn into SSJ because he wanted to evolve in a different way from Goku (ie, in a different way than a Saiyan). This is basically what the manga showed, but in other words.

And in the end, what that means is just that Gohan won't turn into SSJ because he has his power fully unlocked and there's no need for it.

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Re: Gohan vs. Dyspo or Gohan vs. Kefla: Who was the better final opponent for Gohan in the ToP?

Post by Helios518 » Thu Aug 29, 2019 9:42 pm

If we're talking about the fight itself then Dyspo vs Gohan is far better. For an opponent, I much prefer Kafla. In my ideal situation, Gohan and Kafla (both nerfed to SSG Level) fighting each other because the former is preventing the latter from trying to fight a stamina-less Goku would be way better than what happened in the manga and anime.
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Re: Gohan vs. Dyspo or Gohan vs. Kefla: Who was the better final opponent for Gohan in the ToP?

Post by Kataphrut » Fri Aug 30, 2019 3:54 am

TheSaiyanGod wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:56 pm
Kataphrut wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 4:22 am
Dyspo was better. Gohan didn't have the connection with Kale and Caulifla that made Goku's fight with them so enjoyable. Defeating Dyspo gave him an opportunity to show his strength and battle strategy against an opponent that wouldn't push the friendship with the power-scalers like it would if he'd beaten Toppo or Jiren. His relationship with Freeza throughout the arc was an underrated gem as well. He was the only one of the major U7 fighters who respected Gohan's leadership, albeit in a slimy sarcastic way, so having the two of them work together was a nice capper for that.

Plus, you know...they actually showed the fight with Dyspo. It wasn't a particularly good fight, an off-day episode for the animators, but Toyotaro couldn't even clear that low bar.

I still wish there was a version of the tournament which followed through on the 'Haruka' ending promise and actually had Gohan carry it all the way to the end with Goku. It would have been appropriate for the focus he received in the recruitment arc. But in the end, the surprise Freeza/17 finale was too good to pass up.
Gohan had more connection with Kefla than with Dyspo. At least in the manga they talked briefly and seemed to have created some kind of relationship in the end before they were eliminated. The biggest problem is that we saw almost nothing of the fight between the two, so it doesn't seem like a really big opponent to Gohan (though it's the merger of two Saiyans, and one of them defeated most of the ToP warriors)
He did, but it was nowhere near as interesting as Goku's relationship with her in the anime. They talked briefly but it was this inorganic "I am human, you are Saiyan" battle of ideals thing, and it ended with her giving this very OOC speech about how she couldn't compare to the oh-so-amazing Universe 7 Saiyans. I'll take Goku's natural fun chemistry with Caulifla, which then transferred over to Kefla, over that. At least with Dyspo they didn't try to make him anything other than a foe that needed to be outwitted.

Toppo v Vegeta in the anime had the same problem - they acted like it was bigger than it really was. The only exchange they'd had prior to the fight in 126 was Top needling Vegeta over them both being second strongest, which just goes to show how weak Vegeta's presence was in the anime. I agree with what infermon said- they should have had Toppo be Gohan's opponent, there was potential for genuine chemistry between them if they built it up. Two altruistic heroes trying to do the right thing while having to sacrifice other universes to save their own. That's way better than "I am human, you are Saiyan" or "I am second strongest, so are you haha also I give up ideals for power while you don't and are strong for some reason".

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Re: Gohan vs. Dyspo or Gohan vs. Kefla: Who was the better final opponent for Gohan in the ToP?

Post by HeroR » Sat Aug 31, 2019 12:12 pm

TheSaiyanGod wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:56 pm
Kataphrut wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 4:22 am
Dyspo was better. Gohan didn't have the connection with Kale and Caulifla that made Goku's fight with them so enjoyable. Defeating Dyspo gave him an opportunity to show his strength and battle strategy against an opponent that wouldn't push the friendship with the power-scalers like it would if he'd beaten Toppo or Jiren. His relationship with Freeza throughout the arc was an underrated gem as well. He was the only one of the major U7 fighters who respected Gohan's leadership, albeit in a slimy sarcastic way, so having the two of them work together was a nice capper for that.

Plus, you know...they actually showed the fight with Dyspo. It wasn't a particularly good fight, an off-day episode for the animators, but Toyotaro couldn't even clear that low bar.

I still wish there was a version of the tournament which followed through on the 'Haruka' ending promise and actually had Gohan carry it all the way to the end with Goku. It would have been appropriate for the focus he received in the recruitment arc. But in the end, the surprise Freeza/17 finale was too good to pass up.
Gohan had more connection with Kefla than with Dyspo. At least in the manga they talked briefly and seemed to have created some kind of relationship in the end before they were eliminated. The biggest problem is that we saw almost nothing of the fight between the two, so it doesn't seem like a really big opponent to Gohan (though it's the merger of two Saiyans, and one of them defeated most of the ToP warriors)
HeroR wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 12:31 pm
That and anime showed a rare time of Gohan using his brain and found a way to disabled Dypso's extreme speed. Gohan was only blown out of the ring because Freeza messed up. Which is another thing, the dynamic between Goku and Freeza was A+.

The final nail in the coffin is Gohan's 'I want to train as a human', which makes no sense since Gohan is as strong as he is because he's a Hybrid. And him getting his power unlocked had nothing to do with him training as a human.
Gohan in the anime said he would not turn into SSJ because he wanted to evolve in a different way from Goku (ie, in a different way than a Saiyan). This is basically what the manga showed, but in other words.

And in the end, what that means is just that Gohan won't turn into SSJ because he has his power fully unlocked and there's no need for it.
Evolving in a different way doesn't mean, 'I'm training like a human' or whatever he meant. Just that he didn't want to go in the same direction as Goku, which is exactly Vegeta ends up doing. So while the idea maybe the same, what Gohan said in the manga makes no sense.
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Re: Gohan vs. Dyspo or Gohan vs. Kefla: Who was the better final opponent for Gohan in the ToP?

Post by HeroR » Sat Aug 31, 2019 12:22 pm

Kataphrut wrote:
Fri Aug 30, 2019 3:54 am
TheSaiyanGod wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:56 pm
Kataphrut wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 4:22 am
Dyspo was better. Gohan didn't have the connection with Kale and Caulifla that made Goku's fight with them so enjoyable. Defeating Dyspo gave him an opportunity to show his strength and battle strategy against an opponent that wouldn't push the friendship with the power-scalers like it would if he'd beaten Toppo or Jiren. His relationship with Freeza throughout the arc was an underrated gem as well. He was the only one of the major U7 fighters who respected Gohan's leadership, albeit in a slimy sarcastic way, so having the two of them work together was a nice capper for that.

Plus, you know...they actually showed the fight with Dyspo. It wasn't a particularly good fight, an off-day episode for the animators, but Toyotaro couldn't even clear that low bar.

I still wish there was a version of the tournament which followed through on the 'Haruka' ending promise and actually had Gohan carry it all the way to the end with Goku. It would have been appropriate for the focus he received in the recruitment arc. But in the end, the surprise Freeza/17 finale was too good to pass up.
Gohan had more connection with Kefla than with Dyspo. At least in the manga they talked briefly and seemed to have created some kind of relationship in the end before they were eliminated. The biggest problem is that we saw almost nothing of the fight between the two, so it doesn't seem like a really big opponent to Gohan (though it's the merger of two Saiyans, and one of them defeated most of the ToP warriors)
He did, but it was nowhere near as interesting as Goku's relationship with her in the anime. They talked briefly but it was this inorganic "I am human, you are Saiyan" battle of ideals thing, and it ended with her giving this very OOC speech about how she couldn't compare to the oh-so-amazing Universe 7 Saiyans. I'll take Goku's natural fun chemistry with Caulifla, which then transferred over to Kefla, over that. At least with Dyspo they didn't try to make him anything other than a foe that needed to be outwitted.

Toppo v Vegeta in the anime had the same problem - they acted like it was bigger than it really was. The only exchange they'd had prior to the fight in 126 was Top needling Vegeta over them both being second strongest, which just goes to show how weak Vegeta's presence was in the anime. I agree with what infermon said- they should have had Toppo be Gohan's opponent, there was potential for genuine chemistry between them if they built it up. Two altruistic heroes trying to do the right thing while having to sacrifice other universes to save their own. That's way better than "I am human, you are Saiyan" or "I am second strongest, so are you haha also I give up ideals for power while you don't and are strong for some reason".
I don't really agree. While that was true of Toppo before he went all God of Destruction, it doesn't hold true afterwards. Toppo basically pulled a Majin Vegeta when he sacrificed his ideas and convictions for power and then called them meaningless. Yeah, Toppo was far more sympathetic than Majin Vegeta since he was just a mid-life crisis, but I can see why Vegeta would see Toppo as being offensive at that point since he reminded him of himself at his absolute lowest.

So it was never a battle of 'second fiddle' with Toppo and Vegeta. It was a battle of one who threw away his ideals for power and one who wouldn't bend because they did the same thing in the past and it wasn't worth it.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: Gohan vs. Dyspo or Gohan vs. Kefla: Who was the better final opponent for Gohan in the ToP?

Post by Miracles » Sat Aug 31, 2019 3:47 pm

Better final opponent? Narration wise: Kefla; Fusion is always better and she was stronger than Dyspo in both mediums.

However, the fight in the anime against Dyspo was better because all of it was shown.
"The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God."~Psalm 14:1

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