Gohan vs. Dyspo or Gohan vs. Kefla: Who was the better final opponent for Gohan in the ToP?

[Tai Lung]

Dyspo was better. Gohan didn't have the connection with Kale and Caulifla that made Goku's fight with them so enjoyable. Defeating Dyspo gave him an opportunity to show his strength and battle strategy against an opponent that wouldn't push the friendship with the power-scalers like it would if he'd beaten Toppo or Jiren. His relationship with Freeza throughout the arc was an underrated gem as well. He was the only one of the major U7 fighters who respected Gohan's leadership, albeit in a slimy sarcastic way, so having the two of them work together was a nice capper for that.

Plus, you know...they actually showed the fight with Dyspo. It wasn't a particularly good fight, an off-day episode for the animators, but Toyotaro couldn't even clear that low bar.

I still wish there was a version of the tournament which followed through on the 'Haruka' ending promise and actually had Gohan carry it all the way to the end with Goku. It would have been appropriate for the focus he received in the recruitment arc. But in the end, the surprise Freeza/17 finale was too good to pass up.

Gohan had more connection with Kefla than with Dyspo. At least in the manga they talked briefly and seemed to have created some kind of relationship in the end before they were eliminated. The biggest problem is that we saw almost nothing of the fight between the two, so it doesn't seem like a really big opponent to Gohan (though it's the merger of two Saiyans, and one of them defeated most of the ToP warriors)

just talking doesn't give you a connection with someone
and that Kefla accepts her defeat is very out her personality and feels unreal
gohan and dyspo have more common being both heroes, kefla is more like goku, vegeta and the pure saiyans in general

Gohan has more in common with Kale and has nothing in common with Caulifla or kefla.
the fight must have been gohan and kale SSL

[Kataphrut]

Gohan had more connection with Kefla than with Dyspo. At least in the manga they talked briefly and seemed to have created some kind of relationship in the end before they were eliminated. The biggest problem is that we saw almost nothing of the fight between the two, so it doesn't seem like a really big opponent to Gohan (though it's the merger of two Saiyans, and one of them defeated most of the ToP warriors)

He did, but it was nowhere near as interesting as Goku's relationship with her in the anime. They talked briefly but it was this inorganic "I am human, you are Saiyan" battle of ideals thing, and it ended with her giving this very OOC speech about how she couldn't compare to the oh-so-amazing Universe 7 Saiyans. I'll take Goku's natural fun chemistry with Caulifla, which then transferred over to Kefla, over that. At least with Dyspo they didn't try to make him anything other than a foe that needed to be outwitted.

Toppo v Vegeta in the anime had the same problem - they acted like it was bigger than it really was. The only exchange they'd had prior to the fight in 126 was Top needling Vegeta over them both being second strongest, which just goes to show how weak Vegeta's presence was in the anime. I agree with what infermon said- they should have had Toppo be Gohan's opponent, there was potential for genuine chemistry between them if they built it up. Two altruistic heroes trying to do the right thing while having to sacrifice other universes to save their own. That's way better than "I am human, you are Saiyan" or "I am second strongest, so are you haha also I give up ideals for power while you don't and are strong for some reason".

I don't really agree. While that was true of Toppo before he went all God of Destruction, it doesn't hold true afterwards. Toppo basically pulled a Majin Vegeta when he sacrificed his ideas and convictions for power and then called them meaningless. Yeah, Toppo was far more sympathetic than Majin Vegeta since he was just a mid-life crisis, but I can see why Vegeta would see Toppo as being offensive at that point since he reminded him of himself at his absolute lowest.

So it was never a battle of 'second fiddle' with Toppo and Vegeta. It was a battle of one who threw away his ideals for power and one who wouldn't bend because they did the same thing in the past and it wasn't worth it.

Yeah, but how did Vegeta know about that? He was off fighting Jiren when Toppo transformed, and their only interaction prior to that was just "I am second strongest so are you". He got his new form fighting Jiren, he vowed heroically to defeat him. They tried to force a big moment for Vegeta when the script didn't call for it, then settled for Toppo as a second string and pulled the battle of ideals out of nowhere. That's why I dislike that sequence so much.

[HeroR]

He did, but it was nowhere near as interesting as Goku's relationship with her in the anime. They talked briefly but it was this inorganic "I am human, you are Saiyan" battle of ideals thing, and it ended with her giving this very OOC speech about how she couldn't compare to the oh-so-amazing Universe 7 Saiyans. I'll take Goku's natural fun chemistry with Caulifla, which then transferred over to Kefla, over that. At least with Dyspo they didn't try to make him anything other than a foe that needed to be outwitted.

Toppo v Vegeta in the anime had the same problem - they acted like it was bigger than it really was. The only exchange they'd had prior to the fight in 126 was Top needling Vegeta over them both being second strongest, which just goes to show how weak Vegeta's presence was in the anime. I agree with what infermon said- they should have had Toppo be Gohan's opponent, there was potential for genuine chemistry between them if they built it up. Two altruistic heroes trying to do the right thing while having to sacrifice other universes to save their own. That's way better than "I am human, you are Saiyan" or "I am second strongest, so are you haha also I give up ideals for power while you don't and are strong for some reason".

I don't really agree. While that was true of Toppo before he went all God of Destruction, it doesn't hold true afterwards. Toppo basically pulled a Majin Vegeta when he sacrificed his ideas and convictions for power and then called them meaningless. Yeah, Toppo was far more sympathetic than Majin Vegeta since he was just a mid-life crisis, but I can see why Vegeta would see Toppo as being offensive at that point since he reminded him of himself at his absolute lowest.

So it was never a battle of 'second fiddle' with Toppo and Vegeta. It was a battle of one who threw away his ideals for power and one who wouldn't bend because they did the same thing in the past and it wasn't worth it.

Yeah, but how did Vegeta know about that? He was off fighting Jiren when Toppo transformed, and their only interaction prior to that was just "I am second strongest so are you". He got his new form fighting Jiren, he vowed heroically to defeat him. They tried to force a big moment for Vegeta when the script didn't call for it, then settled for Toppo as a second string and pulled the battle of ideals out of nowhere. That's why I dislike that sequence so much.

He knows because Toppo outright told him this during their fight in 126.

[MozillaVulpix]

Neither of them really make much sense for his final opponent, but Dyspo felt more appropriate for both Gohan's strength-level and narrative purpose. At very most he was maybe #3 in terms of relevance in that group, #2 maybe if you took every recruitment episode very seriously. Makes sense his final opponent would be basically #3 in Universe 11.

Also I feel letting him even tie with Kefla implies a pretty absurd power boost. Maybe I'm tying Kefla's power too much with how the anime portrayed her, but I couldn't imagine Gohan taking on a Potara fusion by himself, even if he was already stronger than the two girls individually.

[Yuli Ban]

Also I feel letting him even tie with Kefla implies a pretty absurd power boost. Maybe I'm tying Kefla's power too much with how the anime portrayed her, but I couldn't imagine Gohan taking on a Potara fusion by himself, even if he was already stronger than the two girls individually.

I think the root of the problem is that we're basing Manga Kefla off Anime Kefla. The anime gave us Super Saiyan 2 Caulifla (able to at least keep up with Goku) and showed that Kale could conceivably no-sell Super Saiyan Blue Goku. Fusing the two would conceivably put Kefla at least near the Top 5 ToP fighters in terms of strength. In the manga, Kale could still handle Golden Freeza and looked as if she was growing even stronger, possibly up to Broly tiers of power, but Caulifla was nerfed hard— she has yet to surpass Super Saiyan and could just hold her own against regular Freeza. Not only that, but the powers in the manga also feel a bit more muted. I don't think we ever got something like Super Kaioken Blue x20 in the manga, for example, while Ultra Instinct was treated more purely as a hyper-movement technique.

Or in other words, Dragon Ball Super is stupid and they should've let the manga run for a couple years first and then adapted it.

[Tai Lung]

Also I feel letting him even tie with Kefla implies a pretty absurd power boost. Maybe I'm tying Kefla's power too much with how the anime portrayed her, but I couldn't imagine Gohan taking on a Potara fusion by himself, even if he was already stronger than the two girls individually.

I think the root of the problem is that we're basing Manga Kefla off Anime Kefla. The anime gave us Super Saiyan 2 Caulifla (able to at least keep up with Goku) and showed that Kale could conceivably no-sell Super Saiyan Blue Goku. Fusing the two would conceivably put Kefla at least near the Top 5 ToP fighters in terms of strength. In the manga, Kale could still handle Golden Freeza and looked as if she was growing even stronger, possibly up to Broly tiers of power, but Caulifla was nerfed hard— she has yet to surpass Super Saiyan and could just hold her own against regular Freeza. Not only that, but the powers in the manga also feel a bit more muted. I don't think we ever got something like Super Kaioken Blue x20 in the manga, for example, while Ultra Instinct was treated more purely as a hyper-movement technique.

Or in other words, Dragon Ball Super is stupid and they should've let the manga run for a couple years first and then adapted it.

that depends on what you mean .. the problem of kefla in the manga are the comments of vados, champa and kahseral which suggests that kefla could defeat all the warriors of the tournament (except jiren) and that taking into account that they saw the fight goku and toppo.

I could only agree ... if they had other screenwriters in the manga or give Toyotaro more time

[Saiga]

Neither of them really make much sense for his final opponent, but Dyspo felt more appropriate for both Gohan's strength-level and narrative purpose. At very most he was maybe #3 in terms of relevance in that group, #2 maybe if you took every recruitment episode very seriously. Makes sense his final opponent would be basically #3 in Universe 11.

Also I feel letting him even tie with Kefla implies a pretty absurd power boost. Maybe I'm tying Kefla's power too much with how the anime portrayed her, but I couldn't imagine Gohan taking on a Potara fusion by himself, even if he was already stronger than the two girls individually.

I don't think there's much of a difference in strength for Gohan in the TOP. We know he's weaker than Goku, but he's still able to fight alongside the 'God-level' fighters in either version. Gohan's weaker than Goku, who was about on par with Vegeta, who was on par with Toppo... so yeah, I think he's basically in the same place.

[The gr]

Going with Dyspo as clunky the episode was, felt it had more impact when Gohan defeated him while the manga just felt anticlimactic because how short the match was.

[OhHiRenan]

Toyotaro should have shown more of Gohan’s fight with Kafla, but it’s at least framed well (kind of) in the actual chapter, jumping from fight to fight. He still really should have shown the fight, but I like what it represents.

Gohan vs Dyspo is an actual fight on the other hand, but Dyspo has no substance as a character and anime Gohan is a mess. Manga Gohan’s at least been canonically training in the Gravity Chamber as early as the Goku Black arc. Neither fight is handled gracefully or especially well, but I prefer Gohan vs Kafla.

Plus, less Tournament of Power is always a good thing.

[Tai Lung]

Toyotaro should have shown more of Gohan’s fight with Kafla, but it’s at least framed well (kind of) in the actual chapter, jumping from fight to fight. He still really should have shown the fight, but I like what it represents.

Gohan vs Dyspo is an actual fight on the other hand, but Dyspo has no substance as a character and anime Gohan is a mess. Manga Gohan’s at least been canonically training in the Gravity Chamber as early as the Goku Black arc. Neither fight is handled gracefully or especially well, but I prefer Gohan vs Kafla.

Plus, less Tournament of Power is always a good thing.

Gohan in the anime has more real fights and chapters dedicated to him, where we gradually see his progress and his training with piccolo

in the manga we only have a vague memory of gohan that only consumes panels of the main fight and an incoherent speech of piccolo of because gohan became stronger in those seconds of fighting, without forgetting is basically his only fight occurs off-panel.

and dyspo was the third strongest in the U11, he as Gohan's opponent was fine ... for what had been said about kefla he should have faced jiren or vegeta