Zamasu's arc -- anime vs manga

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Zamasu's arc -- anime vs manga

Post by ahill1 » Tue Sep 03, 2019 2:30 am

Since we have a ToP comparison between both mediums, figured would do one for Zamasu.

Speaking about the Zamasu's arc, the one most people consider to be Super's strong suite, which medium did portray it better in your opinion?

Honestly, I think this arc the only one in which the anime excels in comparison to the manga.

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Re: Zamasu's arc -- anime vs manga

Post by wolflonnie » Tue Sep 03, 2019 3:06 am

Good question. I think they're more or less equal. I don't think I have a preference.
Let's break it down:

Plot:

Almost the same.
The anime has the mystery on its side, the manga has better pacing and structure.
I also feel like the manga follows better lines of logic, whereas the the anime is more spectacular. So preference is personal here.

Secondary details of the plot:

About the same.
The manga has a much more memorable Dabura fight, while the anime has tons of nice dialogues for Future Trunks.

Characters:

Black is definitely better in the anime, more elegant, more cryptic and keeps his cool, such a delight.

Present Zamasu is more or less the same: in the anime he has slightly better motivations, in the manga he's evil-er from the beginning. Just a different interpretation.

Gowasu is the same but more helpful in the manga.

Shin is WAY better in the manga, giving help left and right.

Future Trunks is way better in the manga, has a more realistic role and overall better dialogues. Still the anime has the death of Bulma scene which helps connecting to him.

Future Mei is the exact same, really no differences. Maybe she reacts a bit more in the manga, while in the anime she seems the typical stoic action woman.

Goku is about the same but maybe a little better in the anime because of his "rage moment" against Black and Zamasu.

Vegeta is better in the anime, he shines against Black and his speech couldn't have had a better timing.

Pilaf Gang is WAY less annoying in the manga, which is a nitpick but still is one less problem in the story.

Merged Zamasu has better lines in the anime and better presence, but has that unneeded Corrupted form, which the manga hasn't. The anime version is still better though.

Vegetto has a MUCH better fight in the anime, making him a lot more memorable. The manga version is not memorable at all.

Themes:

I think they're better presented in the anime but not by much, it's still good vs evil. Still one can understand Zamasu's motivations a little better in the anime, making the contrast with Trunks better in return.

Ending:

I prefer the manga's ending by a slight. The anime's feels a bit more rushed and sweeps the sadness of the moment a bit too quickly.
Last edited by wolflonnie on Tue Sep 03, 2019 3:11 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Zamasu's arc -- anime vs manga

Post by SupremeKai25 » Tue Sep 03, 2019 3:07 am

As far as Zamasu is concerned, I much prefer the anime version. By a long mile. To begin with, and this is my biggest issue with Zamasu's characterization in the manga, I really hate how they cut his fight with Goku. That was the turning point for him. When he was defeated in combat by a mortal, he realized just how dangerous mortals could be. This is also the reason why it became personal between Zamasu and Goku. Removing that fight and just having Zamasu "snap" when he sees the video of Goku vs. Hit does no favour to his character and actually removes a pretty important aspect of him: his specific hatred for Goku, which became a personal matter after he was defeated in combat by him. You can't just remove such an integral part of his character.

I also think the anime handled much better Zamasu's final descent into madness. This is mostly due to the amazing work of the voice actors though. When Zamasu is losing it, you can feel it in his cracking voice and this is further reinforced by the thematical change in Zamasu's appearance. He was losing it both mentally and physically, in fact his body was literally falling apart. I also found it touching when he started crying. It shows just how deranged and petty he was, because he genuinely believed he was doing the right thing, but at the same time he cried because he realized both his mind and his body were falling apart. So the calm and confident behaviour he always had shattered and he cried. I did not feel even a fraction of that emotion in the manga. Maybe the moment when he goes apeshit and tries to blow up the universe comes close, but meh.

That's not to say I think the manga did nothing right. I really like how in the manga Fused Zamasu is completely immortal. It should have been the same thing in the anime. Future Zamasu was very clearly the dominant personality in the fusion, so his immortality should have carried over in full. In addition, I also liked that tidbit with Gowasu and Black hugging, only for Black to then stab him. It was a perfect scene that conveyed just how far gone he was. That he was beyond any redemption. And that he himself did not feel like he needed to atone for anything. If there is one scene I wanted the anime to have, it's this one. A scene where Zamasu comes close to Gowasu, hugs him, only to then stab him. Plus obviously the manga cut Trunks' asspull transformation, which in my opinion was a very good thing.

But aside from that, I just prefer the anime version, like for me it's not even a contest. Just look at Fused Zamasu. From a purely aesthetic standpoint, in the anime he feels like an actual God. He always hovers above the ground with a divine halo, because in his mentality he is a towering god who must watch over the universe. Plus his attacks are all very unique and creative, especially the Blades of Judgement and Lightning of Absolution. I don't like at all how the manga version is so grounded and uses such lame attacks. His only interesting ability is the portal thing, which he used sporadically. And yes you can make the argument that in the manga it makes more sense that he uses estabilished Kai abilities like the telekinesis and the katchin cubes, but in my opinion they are boring attacks. So even if his attacks in the anime where kind of pulled out of nowhere (which I don't really agree with, many of them show similarities with attacks that Black and Zamasu had before fusing), I still prefer the anime version of Fused Zamasu.
Last edited by SupremeKai25 on Tue Sep 03, 2019 3:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Zamasu's arc -- anime vs manga

Post by wolflonnie » Tue Sep 03, 2019 3:13 am

SupremeKai25 wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 3:07 am
As far as Zamasu is concerned, I much prefer the anime version. By a long mile. To begin with, and this is my biggest issue with Zamasu's characterization in the manga, I really hate how they cut his fight with Goku. That was the turning point for him. When he was defeated in combat by a mortal, he realized just how dangerous mortals could be. This is also the reason why it became personal between Zamasu and Goku. Removing that fight and just having Zamasu "snap" when he sees the video of Goku vs. Hit does no favour to his character and actually removes a pretty important aspect of him: his specific hatred for Goku, which became a personal matter after he was defeated in combat by him.
My impression is that, in the manga, Zamasu is evil from the beginning and just needed some sort of push, while the anime Zamasu has some distorted thoughts and he snaps after the Goku fight, the Babarian scene, etc..
I think both views are valid for his character, maybe the anime version is a bit better because he's a greyer character.

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Re: Zamasu's arc -- anime vs manga

Post by SupremeKai25 » Tue Sep 03, 2019 3:15 am

wolflonnie wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 3:13 am
SupremeKai25 wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 3:07 am
As far as Zamasu is concerned, I much prefer the anime version. By a long mile. To begin with, and this is my biggest issue with Zamasu's characterization in the manga, I really hate how they cut his fight with Goku. That was the turning point for him. When he was defeated in combat by a mortal, he realized just how dangerous mortals could be. This is also the reason why it became personal between Zamasu and Goku. Removing that fight and just having Zamasu "snap" when he sees the video of Goku vs. Hit does no favour to his character and actually removes a pretty important aspect of him: his specific hatred for Goku, which became a personal matter after he was defeated in combat by him.
My impression is that, in the manga, Zamasu is evil from the beginning and just needed some sort of push, while the anime Zamasu has some distorted thoughts and he snaps after the Goku fight, the Babarian scene, etc..
I think both views are valid for his character, maybe the anime version is a bit better because he's a greyer character.
Yeah. I just prefer the anime version. His change of heart feels more real than him just being evil all along and snapping when he sees that fight on Godtube. I mean, as real as it can feel. I'm not pretending it was perfect, and I think there could have been a few more episodes where we saw Zamasu under a more positive light (I also think he should have been introduced earlier in Super, like in the Universe 6 arc, but that's another topic)... But it's much better than the manga version.

I don't think the manga always viewed him as evil to be honest.There's one panel that I really like. Remember that panel when Gowasu shows up to recruit Zamasu and he is all smiling and claims that he would do everything he can to uphold multiversal peace? And he even has a pet with him? He didn't look evil to me. I don't think the manga wanted Zamasu to be evil from the beginning. I think it wanted him to be conflicted but still pure of heart, like the in anime. It just did a worse job at portraying his fall from grace.

Which reminds me... Did Zamasu even go to Planet Babari in the manga? I can't remember to be honest.
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Re: Zamasu's arc -- anime vs manga

Post by wolflonnie » Tue Sep 03, 2019 4:06 am

SupremeKai25 wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 3:15 am


Yeah. I just prefer the anime version. His change of heart feels more real than him just being evil all along and snapping when he sees that fight on Godtube. I mean, as real as it can feel. I'm not pretending it was perfect, and I think there could have been a few more episodes where we saw Zamasu under a more positive light (I also think he should have been introduced earlier in Super, like in the Universe 6 arc, but that's another topic)... But it's much better than the manga version.

I don't think the manga always viewed him as evil to be honest.There's one panel that I really like. Remember that panel when Gowasu shows up to recruit Zamasu and he is all smiling and claims that he would do everything he can to uphold multiversal peace? And he even has a pet with him? He didn't look evil to me. I don't think the manga wanted Zamasu to be evil from the beginning. I think it wanted him to be conflicted but still pure of heart, like the in anime. It just did a worse job at portraying his fall from grace.

Which reminds me... Did Zamasu even go to Planet Babari in the manga? I can't remember to be honest.
Well evilness comes with time and Zamasu definitely aged. So maybe his true side emerged with time.
And yeah Zamasu visited planet Babari and even killed one of the dinosaurs.

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Re: Zamasu's arc -- anime vs manga

Post by SupremeKai25 » Tue Sep 03, 2019 6:51 am

wolflonnie wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 4:06 am
SupremeKai25 wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 3:15 am


Yeah. I just prefer the anime version. His change of heart feels more real than him just being evil all along and snapping when he sees that fight on Godtube. I mean, as real as it can feel. I'm not pretending it was perfect, and I think there could have been a few more episodes where we saw Zamasu under a more positive light (I also think he should have been introduced earlier in Super, like in the Universe 6 arc, but that's another topic)... But it's much better than the manga version.

I don't think the manga always viewed him as evil to be honest.There's one panel that I really like. Remember that panel when Gowasu shows up to recruit Zamasu and he is all smiling and claims that he would do everything he can to uphold multiversal peace? And he even has a pet with him? He didn't look evil to me. I don't think the manga wanted Zamasu to be evil from the beginning. I think it wanted him to be conflicted but still pure of heart, like the in anime. It just did a worse job at portraying his fall from grace.

Which reminds me... Did Zamasu even go to Planet Babari in the manga? I can't remember to be honest.
Well evilness comes with time and Zamasu definitely aged. So maybe his true side emerged with time.
And yeah Zamasu visited planet Babari and even killed one of the dinosaurs.
Perhaps. Still, I didn't like how he was an asshole from the beginning in the manga. What makes him unique is the fact that when he first appeared on screen he had a pure heart but was conflicted, and only later, after being beaten by a mortal in combat, he started going down the path of evil. That's why I find the anime Zamasu much better, as opposed to the manga Zamasu

Now, of course the anime Zamasu was not perfect. He suffered from the problem of "show, don't tell". We are told that he already saw many examples like that of Planet Babari, hence why he gets so angry at Babari. But we are never actually shown that, so his anger towards that primitive species might feel a little absurd. Even so, at least in the anime Zamasu initially had not made up his mind on mortals yet, he was just asking Gowasu if they were truly worthy of their protection. In the manga it's weird that Zamasu already wants all mortals destroyed, especially when you take into account the fact that his personal grudge with Goku was removed.

I'd say that is my biggest gripe with the manga. While both mediums achieved the same end goal (Zamasu turning evil), the anime at least tried to be more ambitious and show a slow but gradual descent into madness, which was shown throughout several episodes. The manga just straight up skips to the point where Zamasu is already set on exterminating all mortals. And while Zamasu going to Babari also appears in the manga, it is brushed off pretty quickly and does not have the same tension that the anime version had -- especially considering how manga Zamasu had no moral dilemma in the first place.
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Re: Zamasu's arc -- anime vs manga

Post by omegacwa » Tue Sep 03, 2019 12:52 pm

This is honestly a tough call because there are elements off both that I like better than the other, but for me the deciding factor which makes the anime superior in my eyes is that the manga had that one on one fight between Goku and Merged Zamasu which was total bullshit.

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Re: Zamasu's arc -- anime vs manga

Post by sunsetshimmer » Tue Sep 03, 2019 12:58 pm

Anime Fused Zamasu - awful half-jelly lame garbage crybaby
Manga Fused Zamasu - quite badass psycho

Answer is obvious if you ask me.

Also, manga has no SSJ Rage Trunks and space wallpaper Zamasu which also makes it much better than atrocity anime version was.

I still don't like this arc at all, but manga version is acceptable to me. The same goes for ToP.
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Re: Zamasu's arc -- anime vs manga

Post by omegacwa » Tue Sep 03, 2019 1:03 pm

sunsetshimmer wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 12:58 pm
Anime Fused Zamasu - awful half-jelly lame garbage crybaby
Manga Fused Zamasu - quite badass psycho

Answer is obvious if you ask me.

Also, manga has no SSJ Rage Trunks and space wallpaper Zamasu which also makes it much better than atrocity anime version was.

I still don't like this arc at all, but manga version is acceptable to me. The same goes for ToP.
I like both versions of Zamasu. I actually like SSJ Rage Trunks and despite coming out of nowhere I personally think Trunks' Spirit sword and fight with Zamasu leading to his "defeat" is one of the most emotionally satisfying moments in all of Dragon Ball. It's a shame it got undercut by Zamasu becoming "infinite".

I do prefer how "infinite" Zamasu was handled better in the manga though.

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Re: Zamasu's arc -- anime vs manga

Post by Grimlock » Tue Sep 03, 2019 1:19 pm

While there is no Super Saiyan Rage in the manga, there is a Super Saiyan 2 power-up that also came out of nowhere in the manga. I mean, just because Trunks didn't drastically change his appearance from the regular Super Saiyan 2, doesn't make it any less of an asspull too.

Not complaining, though. Super Saiyan 2 deserves anything that can make it an even better form than it already is, and surpassing the crap Super Saiyan 3? I can only smile. :)
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Re: Zamasu's arc -- anime vs manga

Post by Tai Lung » Tue Sep 03, 2019 1:20 pm

ahill1 wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 2:30 am
Since we have a ToP comparison between both mediums, figured would do one for Zamasu.

Speaking about the Zamasu's arc, the one most people consider to be Super's strong suite, which medium did portray it better in your opinion?

Honestly, I think this arc the only one in which the anime excels in comparison to the manga.
the manga version was more boring ... but more consistent .... yes it also has its problems

the hakai of goku makes no sense ....
Trunks with powers of supreme kai is stupid ... the same author denies this fact.
the fact that goku never fights with goku black ... is disappointing
Goku Black loses part of his personality and his powers are no longer creative.
much favoritism to vegeta
There is no mystery although that is no longer the fault of that version.

however, I prefer the manga because remove unnecessary and extensive anime things that are not necessary because we already know the characters ... very different from the tournament of power where we did not know them and therefore more content was needed

Zamasu arc Anime << Zamasu arc Manga
TOP arc Anime >>>>>>>>> TOP arc Manga

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Re: Zamasu's arc -- anime vs manga

Post by sunsetshimmer » Tue Sep 03, 2019 1:28 pm

omegacwa wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 1:03 pm
sunsetshimmer wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 12:58 pm
Anime Fused Zamasu - awful half-jelly lame garbage crybaby
Manga Fused Zamasu - quite badass psycho

Answer is obvious if you ask me.

Also, manga has no SSJ Rage Trunks and space wallpaper Zamasu which also makes it much better than atrocity anime version was.

I still don't like this arc at all, but manga version is acceptable to me. The same goes for ToP.
I like both versions of Zamasu. I actually like SSJ Rage Trunks and despite coming out of nowhere I personally think Trunks' Spirit sword and fight with Zamasu leading to his "defeat" is one of the most emotionally satisfying moments in all of Dragon Ball. It's a shame it got undercut by Zamasu becoming "infinite".

I do prefer how "infinite" Zamasu was handled better in the manga though.
I absolutely hate anime version of Zamasu. Spirit sword itself wasn't bad, it was actually quite cool way to kill Zamasu (yes, kill, not turn him into that dumb wallpaper on sky). What makes it bad is how such weak character as Trunks could defeat him. And i know that Zamasu was tired and weakened at this point but still it didn't make sense. What makes it worse is a fact that Trunks got energy from like few people. This made much more sense in Xenoverse adaptation where Trunks got energy from other timelines. Of course it couldn't make it to Super but it was a lot better. Anime completely ruined feeling of spirit bomb being massive amount of energy gathered from living beings. They did the same in ToP with Goku actually believing that spirit bomb from few people could hurt Jiren when in fact it should be still weaker than the one used on Kid Buu (let's don't underestimate combined power of humans and planets itself, it really mattered a lot in Z and GT). What sucked is how they made this scene a key point in special episode of DBS and tried to make it look like a serious struggle.

Another problem i have with spirit sword scene is how irrelevant Vegito was. He appeared in this episode only to be completely outshined by Trunks. They could at least give Vegito entire episode like they did with Gogeta in GT. Wasting Vegito itself is another thing but that applies to both versions of this arc.
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Re: Zamasu's arc -- anime vs manga

Post by Grimlock » Tue Sep 03, 2019 1:44 pm

ahill1 wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 2:30 am
which medium did portray it better in your opinion?
May I bring a third one? There's one more that I think it did best.
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Re: Zamasu's arc -- anime vs manga

Post by SupremeKai25 » Tue Sep 03, 2019 1:51 pm

Grimlock wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 1:44 pm
ahill1 wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 2:30 am
which medium did portray it better in your opinion?
May I bring a third one? There's one more that I think it did best.
Let me guess, it's Xenoverse 2.
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Re: Zamasu's arc -- anime vs manga

Post by Tai Lung » Tue Sep 03, 2019 2:26 pm

sunsetshimmer wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 12:58 pm
Anime Fused Zamasu - awful half-jelly lame garbage crybaby
Manga Fused Zamasu - quite badass psycho
seriously because I remember him as the zamasu who had to use mai because he feared being erase.
or the zamasu who peed his pants when he saw zen-oh ...

I agree that manga is better here but let's not exaggerate ...

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Re: Zamasu's arc -- anime vs manga

Post by ankokudaishogun » Tue Sep 03, 2019 5:38 pm

it's worth to note Anime and Manga did represent Zamasu diametrically opposed:

Manga Zamasu could never accept things weren't going his way, even blaming "his other self" Black, showing he didn't really trust anybody
Anime Zamasu did "only trust himself"... which extended to "his other self" Black, they connect intuitively and instantly.

Basically they are two opposite flavor of sociopath. This should be taken in account for their portrayal in the story.



I'm probably the only one who did like the downer ending of the anime ESPECIALLY after the thematically CMOA that was the Genkidama Sword: the whole planet coming together to defeat Zamasu, who could only trust himself(literally)

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Re: Zamasu's arc -- anime vs manga

Post by ronaldnorth_03 » Tue Sep 03, 2019 6:50 pm

The anime version is better. But it is wrong to exaggerate a lack of coherence of forces, in the transformation of Trunks and as presented visually fused Zamasu. Beyond of course its horrendous version of episode 66.

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Re: Zamasu's arc -- anime vs manga

Post by TheSaiyanGod » Tue Sep 03, 2019 10:17 pm

wolflonnie wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 3:06 am
Vegeta is better in the anime, he shines against Black and his speech couldn't have had a better timing.
SSB Vegeta beating Goku Black is one of the best moments of Vegeta in DBS. But at least for me, the fact that in the next EP they again pull a power up out of nowhere for Black renders all Vegeta's training useless and greatly reduces the weight of this scene.

I think the manga got it right, since that Vegeta was primarily responsible for making Black and Zamasu merge, and actually using his intelligence in combat to create an interesting strategy for defeating the enemy (and trying to alleviate SSB's weaknesses), instead of just increasing the power.

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Re: Zamasu's arc -- anime vs manga

Post by SupremeKai25 » Wed Sep 04, 2019 1:29 am

]Manga Zamasu could never accept things weren't going his way, even blaming "his other self" Black, showing he didn't really trust anybody
Anime Zamasu did "only trust himself"... which extended to "his other self" Black, they connect intuitively and instantly.
Hm. That's interesting. I never thought of that.
I'm probably the only one who did like the downer ending of the anime ESPECIALLY after the thematically CMOA that was the Genkidama Sword: the whole planet coming together to defeat Zamasu, who could only trust himself(literally
You're not. I also really liked the ending. The problem came down to the execution.

It was painfully obvious that Zamasu wouldn't die in episode 66. Literally in that same episode Gowasu reminds the audience that Zamasu still has an immortal soul.
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