dbs broly follows anime or manga?

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dbs broly follows anime or manga?

Post by Nokra » Fri Sep 20, 2019 11:29 am

seems like it follows the manga since kaioken and evolution are never brought up. also toei anime will probably start following toyo manga when the anime returns.

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Re: dbs broly follows anime or manga?

Post by Desassina » Fri Sep 20, 2019 1:14 pm

It considers both at a glance, but I'm willing to say that it's closer to the manga, because Kale was telegraphing Broly's concept as a golden SSJ, not necessarily green since that was from the anime, while Vegeta returned SSJB to its aura when he had SSJG already. The movie inherited some of the anime fighting quirks though, such as the characters not going full power from the get go, and moves that go with the flow instead of being handpicked as panels.

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Re: dbs broly follows anime or manga?

Post by Tai Lung » Fri Sep 20, 2019 7:11 pm

Nokra wrote:
Fri Sep 20, 2019 11:29 am
seems like it follows the manga since kaioken and evolution are never brought up. also toei anime will probably start following toyo manga when the anime returns.
neither does have the SSB 100% of manga ...

for me it is clear with the message of the movie

"there are strong opponents in other universes" to show the opponents that goku faced and influenced him.

Image

Image

Universe 2 with ribrianne, kefla and the big three of U11 all that only makes sense in the anime version

Broly also has the green transformation just like Kale

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Re: dbs broly follows anime or manga?

Post by Grimlock » Fri Sep 20, 2019 7:27 pm

None. Dragon Ball Super Broly follows Toriyama's continuity (the movies), There is no Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Kaio-ken or Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Evolution (all stuff from Toei) but there isn't "Completed Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan" from Toyotaro either.

There is also another mention of Tarble that only happened in Movie 14, while both Toei and Toyotaro erroneously preferred to ignore.
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Re: dbs broly follows anime or manga?

Post by Skar » Fri Sep 20, 2019 7:50 pm

Grimlock wrote:
Fri Sep 20, 2019 7:27 pm
None. Dragon Ball Super Broly follows Toriyama's continuity (the movies), There is no Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Kaio-ken or Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Evolution (all stuff from Toei) but there isn't "Completed Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan" from Toyotaro either.

There is also another mention of Tarble that only happened in Movie 14, while both Toei and Toyotaro erroneously preferred to ignore.
There's also the fact that Freeza didn't know what fusion was when Gogeta explained it even though Freeza already saw Gotenks and Kefla in the anime. Kefla also appeared in the manga but I'm pretty sure she was originally Toei's idea. Also, there's no reference to Kale's berserker form which looked identical to LSSJ in the anime. It seems that Toriyama only follows his own outline continuity and doesn't take into account any anime or manga exclusive content.

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Re: dbs broly follows anime or manga?

Post by Desassina » Sat Sep 21, 2019 4:10 am

Do you know what it's like to put things in a blender and then try to separate them from the end result based on flavour? That's how Toriyama considered things from the manga and the anime when he tasted both. He's not oblivious to the events that were, but he wants to detach himself from the details that Toyotaro and Toei studios introduced, to make the movie as iconic as it should be. This is why the simplest forms were kept in their natural progression just like Toriyama insisted that manga Goku Black had them.

They all knew Kale from the Tournament of Power, and yet nobody commented on Broly's similarity to her, since this is supposed to be his event with Toriyama's corrections to the form, as well as to the character of previous Toei animated movies, from which the anime drew to make an original Saiyan girl fan service-y. The movie was prone to this kind of service through Gogeta though. The character looked more like Toriyama's sketch, but his moves were throwbacks to the old version, and that's a Toei animation thing to do.

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Re: dbs broly follows anime or manga?

Post by Miracles » Sat Sep 21, 2019 4:32 pm

Broly follows Toriyama's plot lines. Toriyama doesn't have MSSB or BlueXKK/SSBE Vegeta. Just regular Blue.
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Re: dbs broly follows anime or manga?

Post by emperior » Wed Oct 16, 2019 4:26 pm

Well the movie was said to be the next story of the events happening on the anime by Toriyama himself.
The fact Goku didn’t use Kaioken doesn’t really change things, considering how it’s a technique. Does Goku not using the Genkidama also make it not canon?

Also Toyotaro, when depicting Broly’s events in his manga, purposefully made the events visually different from the movie, such as Freeza being in his first form, which also kinda contradicts the 5 centimeter dialogue, or Goku and Vegeta both fighting Broly in the undestroyed arctic scenario and both fusing in perfectly undamaged clothes - this, imo, means that Broly’s events are slightly different in the manga.

Of course there’s the argument that Toriyama just bases his stories on his own movies and outlines, which again shows the biggest problem of Super of not having a clearly defined continuity.
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Re: dbs broly follows anime or manga?

Post by Miracles » Wed Oct 16, 2019 5:47 pm

When Toriyama said the movie follows the anime, it was in regards to the anime already being finished. Not that it canonically follows TOEI's version of Super.

You'd think people understand that KK Blue or SSBE [Anime only forms] not being in the film is a clear factual indication that Toriyama wasn't following the anime's plot. Especially when these forms are the most powerful for Goku and Vegeta in TOEI's version of Super. Yet wasn't used even when Toriayma had Goku and Vegeta use their full power against Broly in his plot.
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Re: dbs broly follows anime or manga?

Post by Tai Lung » Wed Oct 16, 2019 6:37 pm

Miracles wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 5:47 pm
When Toriyama said the movie follows the anime, it was in regards to the anime already being finished. Not that it canonically follows TOEI's version of Super.

You'd think people understand that KK Blue or SSBE [Anime only forms] not being in the film is a clear factual indication that Toriyama wasn't following the anime's plot. Especially when these forms are the most powerful for Goku and Vegeta in TOEI's version of Super. Yet wasn't used even when Toriayma had Goku and Vegeta use their full power against Broly in his plot.
it really wouldn't be an indicative, they barely fight in SSB
literally that part feels rushed because obviously they have to appear "gogeta" in all forms important part of the movie ...

the ikari transformation seems to be the work of toei ... similar to the SSJ4.

they have to tell a story but at the same time you have to promotion broly, gogeta, ikari form and other transformations.
what does not leave room for the other transformations did not even appear the SSJ3

even more if the characters were very tired for it they would have to wait 30 minutes to merge again + 1 hour to become SSB

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Re: dbs broly follows anime or manga?

Post by Miracles » Wed Oct 16, 2019 7:37 pm

Tai Lung wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 6:37 pm
Miracles wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 5:47 pm
When Toriyama said the movie follows the anime, it was in regards to the anime already being finished. Not that it canonically follows TOEI's version of Super.

You'd think people understand that KK Blue or SSBE [Anime only forms] not being in the film is a clear factual indication that Toriyama wasn't following the anime's plot. Especially when these forms are the most powerful for Goku and Vegeta in TOEI's version of Super. Yet wasn't used even when Toriayma had Goku and Vegeta use their full power against Broly in his plot.
it really wouldn't be an indicative, they barely fight in SSB
literally that part feels rushed because obviously they have to appear "gogeta" in all forms important part of the movie ...

the ikari transformation seems to be the work of toei ... similar to the SSJ4.

they have to tell a story but at the same time you have to promotion broly, gogeta, ikari form and other transformations.
what does not leave room for the other transformations did not even appear the SSJ3

even more if the characters were very tired for it they would have to wait 30 minutes to merge again + 1 hour to become SSB
It doesn't matter. The point is Toriyam's plot had Goku/Vegeta run away from Broly after failing with their full power. For TOEI it's KKBlue and SSBE [stated to be ANIME ONLY] and for Toriyama, regular Blue. Toriyama didn't use either manga/anime version of Super but his own. Since he is the authority.
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Re: dbs broly follows anime or manga?

Post by Tai Lung » Wed Oct 16, 2019 7:48 pm

Miracles wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 7:37 pm
Tai Lung wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 6:37 pm
Miracles wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 5:47 pm
When Toriyama said the movie follows the anime, it was in regards to the anime already being finished. Not that it canonically follows TOEI's version of Super.

You'd think people understand that KK Blue or SSBE [Anime only forms] not being in the film is a clear factual indication that Toriyama wasn't following the anime's plot. Especially when these forms are the most powerful for Goku and Vegeta in TOEI's version of Super. Yet wasn't used even when Toriayma had Goku and Vegeta use their full power against Broly in his plot.
it really wouldn't be an indicative, they barely fight in SSB
literally that part feels rushed because obviously they have to appear "gogeta" in all forms important part of the movie ...

the ikari transformation seems to be the work of toei ... similar to the SSJ4.

they have to tell a story but at the same time you have to promotion broly, gogeta, ikari form and other transformations.
what does not leave room for the other transformations did not even appear the SSJ3

even more if the characters were very tired for it they would have to wait 30 minutes to merge again + 1 hour to become SSB
It doesn't matter. The point is Toriyam's plot had Goku/Vegeta run away from Broly after failing with their full power. For TOEI it's KKBlue and SSBE [stated to be ANIME ONLY] and for Toriyama, regular Blue. Toriyama didn't use either manga/anime version of Super but his own. Since he is the authority.
if they used all their power .. then in a mistake of the author

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Re: dbs broly follows anime or manga?

Post by Miracles » Wed Oct 16, 2019 7:54 pm

Tai Lung wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 7:48 pm
Miracles wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 7:37 pm
Tai Lung wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 6:37 pm


it really wouldn't be an indicative, they barely fight in SSB
literally that part feels rushed because obviously they have to appear "gogeta" in all forms important part of the movie ...

the ikari transformation seems to be the work of toei ... similar to the SSJ4.

they have to tell a story but at the same time you have to promotion broly, gogeta, ikari form and other transformations.
what does not leave room for the other transformations did not even appear the SSJ3

even more if the characters were very tired for it they would have to wait 30 minutes to merge again + 1 hour to become SSB
It doesn't matter. The point is Toriyam's plot had Goku/Vegeta run away from Broly after failing with their full power. For TOEI it's KKBlue and SSBE [stated to be ANIME ONLY] and for Toriyama, regular Blue. Toriyama didn't use either manga/anime version of Super but his own. Since he is the authority.
if they used all their power .. then in a mistake of the author
It's not. The author determines the limit for his characters.
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Re: dbs broly follows anime or manga?

Post by Tai Lung » Wed Oct 16, 2019 8:44 pm

Miracles wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 7:54 pm
Tai Lung wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 7:48 pm
Miracles wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 7:37 pm

It doesn't matter. The point is Toriyam's plot had Goku/Vegeta run away from Broly after failing with their full power. For TOEI it's KKBlue and SSBE [stated to be ANIME ONLY] and for Toriyama, regular Blue. Toriyama didn't use either manga/anime version of Super but his own. Since he is the authority.
if they used all their power .. then in a mistake of the author
It's not. The author determines the limit for his characters.
it is ...
goten and trunks have to wait 30 minutes to merge again and to transform into SSJ3 they have to wait 1 hour due to wear.

Of course it would not be the case if they still had reserved energy.

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Re: dbs broly follows anime or manga?

Post by Miracles » Thu Oct 17, 2019 3:30 am

Tai Lung wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 8:44 pm
Miracles wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 7:54 pm
Tai Lung wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 7:48 pm


if they used all their power .. then in a mistake of the author
It's not. The author determines the limit for his characters.
it is ...
goten and trunks have to wait 30 minutes to merge again and to transform into SSJ3 they have to wait 1 hour due to wear.

Of course it would not be the case if they still had reserved energy.
What?
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Re: dbs broly follows anime or manga?

Post by Mister_Popo » Thu Oct 24, 2019 12:44 pm

I also see that there are three versions of the main continuity: film, anime and manga.
I cannot think of another explanation why MSSB and SSBKK, for example, otherwise do not appear in Broly.

The events in Super that do not occur in the films (U6, Zamasu, TOP) have actually happened in Toriyamas universe. It is even referred to. But that version probably also differs from the version we see in the manga and anime. Toriyama only gave rough descriptions for those events, if he would have worked them out in detail, they would have looked different.
Since Toriyama no longer makes a manga himself, the films are the projects that he himself describes the most in detail in terms of content and are actually closest to what could be 'hardcore canon' (which was the original manga).

For me, the original BOG and ROF films are also the most truthful versions of those facts. Not the versions that Super brewed later. They are also main continuity but not the exact version of the author. Broly proves that Toriyama only partially recognizes the events of the anime and manga.

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Re: dbs broly follows anime or manga?

Post by emperior » Sun Oct 27, 2019 2:51 pm

Mister_Popo wrote:
Thu Oct 24, 2019 12:44 pm
I also see that there are three versions of the main continuity: film, anime and manga.
I cannot think of another explanation why MSSB and SSBKK, for example, otherwise do not appear in Broly.

The events in Super that do not occur in the films (U6, Zamasu, TOP) have actually happened in Toriyamas universe. It is even referred to. But that version probably also differs from the version we see in the manga and anime. Toriyama only gave rough descriptions for those events, if he would have worked them out in detail, they would have looked different.
Since Toriyama no longer makes a manga himself, the films are the projects that he himself describes the most in detail in terms of content and are actually closest to what could be 'hardcore canon' (which was the original manga).

For me, the original BOG and ROF films are also the most truthful versions of those facts. Not the versions that Super brewed later. They are also main continuity but not the exact version of the author. Broly proves that Toriyama only partially recognizes the events of the anime and manga.
Kaioken is a technique. Goku doesn’t have to use it all the time, same as he doesn’t always use the Genkidama.
The fact he used it more throughout the Tournament of Power against Jiren just indicates that, with the tournament being such a serious and dire situation, Goku was willing to risk everything to win it.

Against Broly Goku had already decided, once he started to get pummeled, that if the situation got worse he would have teleported himself and Vegeta over to Piccolo to fuse.
Also he was faring well enough with normal Super Saiyan Blue before Broly turned Super Saiyan, and at that point Goku was already low on stamina and when he saw not even teaming up with Vegeta was changing things, he probably realized Kaioken would have been useless too, and way too risky to pull off.
Either way, Kaioken not being used in the movie doesn’t make the movie suddenly part of a different continuity from the anime. And nothing in the movie contradicts the anime events.

There’s no reason as to why Goku would use the unmastered Blue version, though, had this been the strict continuation of the manga. The fact the movie was produced by Toei also is basically an indicator that if follows more their continuity.
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Re: dbs broly follows anime or manga?

Post by Grimlock » Sun Oct 27, 2019 3:38 pm

emperior wrote:
Sun Oct 27, 2019 2:51 pm
The fact the movie was produced by Toei also is basically an indicator that if follows more their continuity.
This mindset is misleading. Everything you see animated is produced by Toei obviously. If we are going to apply this logic to everything else, then we might start considering the anime version of the events as the "main" one in all media.
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Re: dbs broly follows anime or manga?

Post by Mister_Popo » Sun Oct 27, 2019 7:05 pm

emperior wrote:
Sun Oct 27, 2019 2:51 pm
Mister_Popo wrote:
Thu Oct 24, 2019 12:44 pm
I also see that there are three versions of the main continuity: film, anime and manga.
I cannot think of another explanation why MSSB and SSBKK, for example, otherwise do not appear in Broly.

The events in Super that do not occur in the films (U6, Zamasu, TOP) have actually happened in Toriyamas universe. It is even referred to. But that version probably also differs from the version we see in the manga and anime. Toriyama only gave rough descriptions for those events, if he would have worked them out in detail, they would have looked different.
Since Toriyama no longer makes a manga himself, the films are the projects that he himself describes the most in detail in terms of content and are actually closest to what could be 'hardcore canon' (which was the original manga).

For me, the original BOG and ROF films are also the most truthful versions of those facts. Not the versions that Super brewed later. They are also main continuity but not the exact version of the author. Broly proves that Toriyama only partially recognizes the events of the anime and manga.
Kaioken is a technique. Goku doesn’t have to use it all the time, same as he doesn’t always use the Genkidama.
The fact he used it more throughout the Tournament of Power against Jiren just indicates that, with the tournament being such a serious and dire situation, Goku was willing to risk everything to win it.

Against Broly Goku had already decided, once he started to get pummeled, that if the situation got worse he would have teleported himself and Vegeta over to Piccolo to fuse.
Also he was faring well enough with normal Super Saiyan Blue before Broly turned Super Saiyan, and at that point Goku was already low on stamina and when he saw not even teaming up with Vegeta was changing things, he probably realized Kaioken would have been useless too, and way too risky to pull off.
Either way, Kaioken not being used in the movie doesn’t make the movie suddenly part of a different continuity from the anime. And nothing in the movie contradicts the anime events.

There’s no reason as to why Goku would use the unmastered Blue version, though, had this been the strict continuation of the manga. The fact the movie was produced by Toei also is basically an indicator that if follows more their continuity.

Maybe the Tournament of Power was even more extreme because of the stakes. Complete UI and "Royal" SSB weren't standard and both forms could be considered unmastered at the time. But the battle against SSJ Broly, in which they had to learn a fusion technique they didn't know, was pretty extreme as well. I don't see a fundamental reason why Goku wouldn't have used Kaioken, which was no longer "limit-breaker" but established in battle combined with Blue at the time since U6 arc already, in the fight against Broly. Toriyama knew this, but apparently he didn't shoose to use it for a reason. The only reason i see he didn't is because he applied his own logic. And this while he overseed the movies more than the anime, in the sense he had more opportunity to control and rectify its details at the end.
Last edited by Mister_Popo on Sun Oct 27, 2019 7:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: dbs broly follows anime or manga?

Post by emperior » Sun Oct 27, 2019 7:31 pm

Mister_Popo wrote:
Sun Oct 27, 2019 7:05 pm
emperior wrote:
Sun Oct 27, 2019 2:51 pm
Mister_Popo wrote:
Thu Oct 24, 2019 12:44 pm
I also see that there are three versions of the main continuity: film, anime and manga.
I cannot think of another explanation why MSSB and SSBKK, for example, otherwise do not appear in Broly.

The events in Super that do not occur in the films (U6, Zamasu, TOP) have actually happened in Toriyamas universe. It is even referred to. But that version probably also differs from the version we see in the manga and anime. Toriyama only gave rough descriptions for those events, if he would have worked them out in detail, they would have looked different.
Since Toriyama no longer makes a manga himself, the films are the projects that he himself describes the most in detail in terms of content and are actually closest to what could be 'hardcore canon' (which was the original manga).

For me, the original BOG and ROF films are also the most truthful versions of those facts. Not the versions that Super brewed later. They are also main continuity but not the exact version of the author. Broly proves that Toriyama only partially recognizes the events of the anime and manga.
Kaioken is a technique. Goku doesn’t have to use it all the time, same as he doesn’t always use the Genkidama.
The fact he used it more throughout the Tournament of Power against Jiren just indicates that, with the tournament being such a serious and dire situation, Goku was willing to risk everything to win it.

Against Broly Goku had already decided, once he started to get pummeled, that if the situation got worse he would have teleported himself and Vegeta over to Piccolo to fuse.
Also he was faring well enough with normal Super Saiyan Blue before Broly turned Super Saiyan, and at that point Goku was already low on stamina and when he saw not even teaming up with Vegeta was changing things, he probably realized Kaioken would have been useless too, and way too risky to pull off.
Either way, Kaioken not being used in the movie doesn’t make the movie suddenly part of a different continuity from the anime. And nothing in the movie contradicts the anime events.

There’s no reason as to why Goku would use the unmastered Blue version, though, had this been the strict continuation of the manga. The fact the movie was produced by Toei also is basically an indicator that if follows more their continuity.

Maybe the Tournament of Power was even more extreme because of the stakes. MUI and "Royal" SSB weren't standard and both forms could be considered unmastered at the time. But the battle against SSJ Broly, in which they had to learn a fusion technique they didn't know, was pretty extreme as well. I don't see a fundamental reason why Goku wouldn't have used Kaioken, which was no longer "limit-breaker" but established in battle combined with Blue at the time since U6 arc already, in the fight against Broly. Toriyama knew this, but apparently he didn't shoose to use it for a reason. The only reason i see he didn't is because he applied his own logic. And this while he overseed the movies more than the anime, as he had more opportunity to control and rectify its details at the end.
The reason is quite simple: plot.
And the plot made it quite clear that Goku was stronger than Broly as a Super Saiyan Blue, and after Broly transforms Goku is so outclassed not even the help of Vegeta helps the situation. At that point it’s clear not even Kaioken would do it, so they decide to go for the fusion. Which of course happens because the plot was written in order for Gogeta to appear.
That’s all.
And Goku used Kaioken just once in the Future Trunks arc, again due to plot reasons.
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