Is Spirit Control now the "catch-all" for the strange unexplained DB techniques?

[Hulk10]

What it means.
Blue in manga and Blue in anime, don't they work according to the same principle?
If there is a difference, what exactly is that difference?

I see, as I recall in the manga Blue loses power after a certain amount of time whereas in the anime it does not.

I should think it would work according to the same principle: SSJ mixed with God-Ki.
The mechanism seems the same, in the manga however there seems to be different levels of control within Blue (casual vs Mastered).
In the anime there is only one Blue form who seems to have less stamina issues from time to time, but shouldn't he have those issues too if they were to be consistent?
During TOP the mixing between Blue and SSG was introduced, but not as extreme as in the manga.

SSJ mixed with God Ki is probably the same I agree. But levels of control are different. I don't know why.

[HeroR]

What it means.
Blue in manga and Blue in anime, don't they work according to the same principle?
If there is a difference, what exactly is that difference?

I see, as I recall in the manga Blue loses power after a certain amount of time whereas in the anime it does not.

I should think it would work according to the same principle: SSJ mixed with God-Ki.
The mechanism seems the same, in the manga however there seems to be different levels of control within Blue (casual vs Mastered).
In the anime there is only one Blue form who seems to have less stamina issues from time to time, but shouldn't he have those issues too if they were to be consistent?
During TOP the mixing between Blue and SSG was introduced, but not as extreme as in the manga.

I think you mean switching, not mixing.

[Mister_Popo]

I see, as I recall in the manga Blue loses power after a certain amount of time whereas in the anime it does not.

I should think it would work according to the same principle: SSJ mixed with God-Ki.
The mechanism seems the same, in the manga however there seems to be different levels of control within Blue (casual vs Mastered).
In the anime there is only one Blue form who seems to have less stamina issues from time to time, but shouldn't he have those issues too if they were to be consistent?
During TOP the mixing between Blue and SSG was introduced, but not as extreme as in the manga.

I think you mean switching, not mixing.

Correct.

[ankokudaishogun]

Blue is SSGod going Super Saiyan in both anime and manga.

in manga, this results in an explosive peak in power in the first few moments after the transformation.
This issue is "resolved" by keeping the Ki from overflow the body, resulting in the aura-less Complete Blue

in the anime, no such peak is stated. In there, Blue is attributed "perfect Ki Control" which Goku uses to add the explosive power of Kaiohken on top of Blue.

It's easy to headcanon that the transformation peak exists in both media, but Goku goes through different methods to deal with it: in the manga by not letting the "explosive power" die keeping it inside, in the anime by using a technique that basically replicate it continuously(Kaiohken)
Vegeta, otherwise, follows the same road of Goku in the manga with Complete Blue, but utterly ignore it in the anime by preferring "just" increasing his own power via Saiyan traits.

(Blue Evolution is quite obviously the end-result of Vegeta going Full Saiyan Way on Blue. It's arguable Manga Vegeta did the exact same thing, but as reaction to the events of ToP instead of a regular thing)

[Mister_Popo]

Blue is SSGod going Super Saiyan in both anime and manga.

in manga, this results in an explosive peak in power in the first few moments after the transformation.
This issue is "resolved" by keeping the Ki from overflow the body, resulting in the aura-less Complete Blue

All right, I've always seen MSSB as the equal of perfected Ki-control in the manga, a state that's comparable as such with casual Blue in the anime, which 'should' have it always in check. If no Ki leaks out, one should consider the Ki-management / level of control is higher than casual Blue in the manga.The visual presentation of having no aura could have been the reason we haven't really seen MSSB in the anime, it's just visually not as appealing, where as in the manga this might be less of an issue?

[ankokudaishogun]

Blue is SSGod going Super Saiyan in both anime and manga.

in manga, this results in an explosive peak in power in the first few moments after the transformation.
This issue is "resolved" by keeping the Ki from overflow the body, resulting in the aura-less Complete Blue

All right, I've always seen MSSB as the equal of perfected Ki-control in the manga, a state that's comparable as such with casual Blue in the anime, which 'should' have it always in check. If no Ki leaks out, one should consider the Ki-management / level of control is higher than casual Blue in the manga.The visual presentation of having no aura could have been the reason we haven't really seen MSSB in the anime, it's just visually not as appealing, where as in the manga this might be less of an issue?

IIRC it was stated in a Toyo interview Mastered Blue was about the same as Kaiohken Blue

Maybe Perfect Ki Control results into the ability of sealing the [s]Wi[/s]Ki Leaks in the manga.

Basically:

Blue=Explosive Peak and Perfect Ki Control
Manga: use Ki Control to avoid the explosive power to disperde after the first few moments of the transformation(Complete Blue)
Anime: use Ki Control to replicate the Explosive Peak at will(Kaiohken Blue)

Makes sense?

[Mister_Popo]

Blue is SSGod going Super Saiyan in both anime and manga.

in manga, this results in an explosive peak in power in the first few moments after the transformation.
This issue is "resolved" by keeping the Ki from overflow the body, resulting in the aura-less Complete Blue

All right, I've always seen MSSB as the equal of perfected Ki-control in the manga, a state that's comparable as such with casual Blue in the anime, which 'should' have it always in check. If no Ki leaks out, one should consider the Ki-management / level of control is higher than casual Blue in the manga.The visual presentation of having no aura could have been the reason we haven't really seen MSSB in the anime, it's just visually not as appealing, where as in the manga this might be less of an issue?

IIRC it was stated in a Toyo interview Mastered Blue was about the same as Kaiohken Blue

Maybe Perfect Ki Control results into the ability of sealing the [s]Wi[/s]Ki Leaks in the manga.

Basically:

Blue=Explosive Peak and Perfect Ki Control
Manga: use Ki Control to avoid the explosive power to disperde after the first few moments of the transformation(Complete Blue)
Anime: use Ki Control to replicate the Explosive Peak at will(Kaiohken Blue)

Makes sense?

It makes sense. It should however be noted casual Blue in the manga seems to have less 'control' than casual Blue in the anime.
It should also be stated MSSB and Kaioken Blue appear to be only possible by even more advanced Ki-control, as it makes sense it takes more 'control' to continiously tap in to the explosive power-output of Blue without completely straining oneself. It's not when one has achieved Blue, one automatically achieves MSSB or Kaioken Blue as well. It takes more training.
So the control 'could' be nearly perfect in casual Blue, but may still be not as perfected as when successfully used with Kaioken or in MSSB. 'Perfected' Ki-control appears to be 'somehow relative', although the same mechanism is clearly shared in both anime and manga.

[ankokudaishogun]

So the control 'could' be nearly perfect in casual Blue, but may still be not as perfected as when successfully used with Kaioken or in MSSB. 'Perfected' Ki-control appears to be 'somehow relative', although the same mechanism is clearly shared in both anime and manga.

IMHO "perfect ki control" should be interpreted as "Blue does not interferes with ki control"

Like: the SS transformation is based on rage, so while transformed the Ki is naturally in an excited stated.
The whole point of Grade-4 is reducing said Ki-excitation to the minimum, but it's not possible to remove it fully when using Ki.

Blue, otherwise, doesn't causes Ki being excited. Using Ki in Blue is exactly the same as using Ki while in Base.

That doesn't mean Mastered Blue and Kaiohken Blue can be used as soon as somebody gets Blue: they are still difficult techniques\abilities requiring a lot of practice and training.

[Mister_Popo]

So the control 'could' be nearly perfect in casual Blue, but may still be not as perfected as when successfully used with Kaioken or in MSSB. 'Perfected' Ki-control appears to be 'somehow relative', although the same mechanism is clearly shared in both anime and manga.

IMHO "perfect ki control" should be interpreted as "Blue does not interferes with ki control"

Like: the SS transformation is based on rage, so while transformed the Ki is naturally in an excited stated.
The whole point of Grade-4 is reducing said Ki-excitation to the minimum, but it's not possible to remove it fully when using Ki.

Blue, otherwise, doesn't causes Ki being excited. Using Ki in Blue is exactly the same as using Ki while in Base.

That doesn't mean Mastered Blue and Kaiohken Blue can be used as soon as somebody gets Blue: they are still difficult techniques\abilities requiring a lot of practice and training.

I see perfected Ki-control and excitation as different things. When being in Blue, a power enhancement through excitement is still possible (fe against Zamasu and Goku Black), while it should always operate under the same circumstances of perfected or nearly perfected Ki-control, no matter if the extra stimulus is applied. If this wouldn't be the case, the continuation of the Blue transformation should simply not be possible, as this balance is required.
The Ki-management however seems more advanced compared to the casual SSJ-forms, even grade 4 IMHO. In Blue for instance Goku is able to fight opponents that are much weaker than the maximal power output that Blue represents. Why did he otherwise use Blue for instance against Krillin in Super? Clearly because he wouldn't obliterate him.

Couldn't the perfected Ki-control have more to do with the application of God-Ki than with the 'mastered SSJ grade 4-component' as such?
Or a combination of God-Ki and mastered SSJ1, but not uniquely driven by the mastered SSJ1-application? This makes sense, as in the manga, when Goku obtains MSSB, he can do things that only Gods can, apart from perfected Ki-control, he can even use the Hakai etc.

[Tai Lung]

I just can't see them being the same. If so, Vegeta wouldn't need to retrain from scratch to learn mastery of Spirit Control if he already reached a high level in Ki Control. They simply cannot be the same if he is struggling this much with it unless Yardrat techniques are more advanced than Angelic ones and I just don't believe that to be the case. Although, it could be since IT is so good even compared to the likes of Whis' teleportation. But most of the techniques shown such as cloning and gigantification are just DB techniques that could be mastered by Tien and Piccolo. So if this stuff is the same, Tien and Piccolo are also masters of Ki Control. At this point they should be, but that's just not what the story is displaying to us. So, I believe it is time to stop believing they are the same instead

because for the logic in dragon ball super manga goku and vegeta are only 2 types that transform and have no technique or skill, a lie but is this writing crap ... goku and vegeta just try attack moro with hits and attacks of energy .. but they don't try the taioken or hakai with which they could overcome him.

anyway the Yardrat say that goku knows "spirit control" when I've learned teleportation

well vegeta has been chosen to learn new techniques because it lacks special techniques .. such as teleport
there is no other reason
so the spirit control = Ki