Why isn't Piccolo as strong or even stronger than Android 17 currently is?

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Tai Lung
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Re: Why isn't Piccolo as strong or even stronger than Android 17 currently is?

Post by Tai Lung » Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:15 pm

well piccolo is currently superior to SSB are all happy now?

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Re: Why isn't Piccolo as strong or even stronger than Android 17 currently is?

Post by Kiyoharu » Tue Mar 31, 2020 7:06 pm

Because Dragon Ball Super is shit.

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In DBS Trunks became stronger than Vegetto because power of love.

No Power-Up in DBS makes sense, Android 17 is a great example of that.

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Re: Why isn't Piccolo as strong or even stronger than Android 17 currently is?

Post by The Monkey King » Thu Apr 02, 2020 3:55 pm

Kiyoharu wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 7:06 pm
Because Dragon Ball Super is shit.

Image

In DBS Trunks became stronger than Vegetto because power of love.

No Power-Up in DBS makes sense, Android 17 is a great example of that.
I agree with you completely. The moment Kaioken x20 SSJB Goku was still weaker than Beerus was the moment logical power scaling went out the window entirely.

There is no logical reason for anything anymore. Piccolo could've went from SSJ2 level to SSJB level in the space of 2 panels but who cares anymore.

But to be fair, the manga's power scaling is much more consistent than the anime's.
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Tai Lung
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Re: Why isn't Piccolo as strong or even stronger than Android 17 currently is?

Post by Tai Lung » Thu Apr 02, 2020 4:08 pm

The Monkey King wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 3:55 pm
Kiyoharu wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 7:06 pm
Because Dragon Ball Super is shit.

Image

In DBS Trunks became stronger than Vegetto because power of love.

No Power-Up in DBS makes sense, Android 17 is a great example of that.
I agree with you completely. The moment Kaioken x20 SSJB Goku was still weaker than Beerus was the moment logical power scaling went out the window entirely.

There is no logical reason for anything anymore. Piccolo could've went from SSJ2 level to SSJB level in the space of 2 panels but who cares anymore.

But to be fair, the manga's power scaling is much more consistent than the anime's.
and that's false because piccolo is stronger than ssb currently in manga

the kaioken does not have to be illogical ... frieza was about 20 times stronger than "goku base" in the manga and so the fight worked well because he was contained

and the other user is wrong because vegito is stronger than trunks rage

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Re: Why isn't Piccolo as strong or even stronger than Android 17 currently is?

Post by Kiyoharu » Thu Apr 02, 2020 7:14 pm

The Monkey King wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 3:55 pm
Kiyoharu wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 7:06 pm
Because Dragon Ball Super is shit.

Image

In DBS Trunks became stronger than Vegetto because power of love.

No Power-Up in DBS makes sense, Android 17 is a great example of that.
I agree with you completely. The moment Kaioken x20 SSJB Goku was still weaker than Beerus was the moment logical power scaling went out the window entirely.
Since the Resurrection of F arc was obvious that Dragon Ball Super is trash.

Tagoma went in 4 months from having the same strength as Dodoria to being stronger than Piccolo.

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Krillin and Roshi Surviving the attack of a guy who is stronger than Gohan and Piccolo.

Freeza's increase in 4 months was absurd, but that was even worse.

Trunks is weaker than Base Black.
Image

Trunks fighting Rosé Black.
Image

Why? Because nothing on DBS makes sense.

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Re: Why isn't Piccolo as strong or even stronger than Android 17 currently is?

Post by Dragon Wukong » Thu Apr 02, 2020 10:22 pm

Tai Lung wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 4:08 pm
and that's false because piccolo is stronger than ssb currently in manga

the kaioken does not have to be illogical ... frieza was about 20 times stronger than "goku base" in the manga and so the fight worked well because he was contained

and the other user is wrong because vegito is stronger than trunks rage
Where is suggested Piccolo is stronger than SSB in the manga right now?

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Tai Lung
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Re: Why isn't Piccolo as strong or even stronger than Android 17 currently is?

Post by Tai Lung » Thu Apr 02, 2020 10:29 pm

Dragon Wukong wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 10:22 pm
Tai Lung wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 4:08 pm
and that's false because piccolo is stronger than ssb currently in manga

the kaioken does not have to be illogical ... frieza was about 20 times stronger than "goku base" in the manga and so the fight worked well because he was contained

and the other user is wrong because vegito is stronger than trunks rage
Where is suggested Piccolo is stronger than SSB in the manga right now?
Gohan and piccolo fighting together against sagambo (Power up) using all their power is enough. that taking into account the enormous increase that gohan in the Top (manga), piccolo can now feel the energy of the gods and even mentions that goku has surpassed them again giving the understanding that he had already reached that level etc etc

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Re: Why isn't Piccolo as strong or even stronger than Android 17 currently is?

Post by Dragon Wukong » Thu Apr 02, 2020 10:57 pm

Tai Lung wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 10:29 pm
Gohan and piccolo fighting together against sagambo (Power up) using all their power is enough. that taking into account the enormous increase that gohan in the Top (manga), piccolo can now feel the energy of the gods and even mentions that goku has surpassed them again giving the understanding that he had already reached that level etc etc
Yes Piccolo teamed up with Gohan, but Piccolo fails to do anything to Saganbo. I fail to see how the past two chapters showed him to be at SSB's level. And at no point is it suggested he can sense god ki, quite the opposite in the latest chapter in fact. Piccolo fails to sense Goku's presence and it's all but stated that it's because he's using Ultra Instinct.

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Re: Why isn't Piccolo as strong or even stronger than Android 17 currently is?

Post by Hugo Boss » Fri Apr 03, 2020 12:11 am

I’m not sure about it, but Piccolo hanging in there against Saganbo while 17 is left aside might be a hint that he powered-up to that SSBlue level of Goku and Vegeta in the Jiren Arc, if not surpassed it, which helps to understand why he assumes SSBlue Goku got stronger.

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Re: Why isn't Piccolo as strong or even stronger than Android 17 currently is?

Post by Tai Lung » Fri Apr 03, 2020 12:31 am

Dragon Wukong wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 10:57 pm
Tai Lung wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 10:29 pm
Gohan and piccolo fighting together against sagambo (Power up) using all their power is enough. that taking into account the enormous increase that gohan in the Top (manga), piccolo can now feel the energy of the gods and even mentions that goku has surpassed them again giving the understanding that he had already reached that level etc etc
Yes Piccolo teamed up with Gohan, but Piccolo fails to do anything to Saganbo. I fail to see how the past two chapters showed him to be at SSB's level. And at no point is it suggested he can sense god ki, quite the opposite in the latest chapter in fact. Piccolo fails to sense Goku's presence and it's all but stated that it's because he's using Ultra Instinct.
Anyway, keeping up with Gohan is enough as Goku and Piccolo did against Raditz.again gohan is not holding back he is using all his power

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at first everyone is fighting ... then saganbo focuses on the strongest ... piccolo and gohan

after 17 and 18 they are observing because they cannot keep up but piccolo and gohan can do

Image
Image
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it is not said directly but it is what is observed

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Re: Why isn't Piccolo as strong or even stronger than Android 17 currently is?

Post by Kiyoharu » Fri Apr 03, 2020 12:42 am

Dragon Wukong wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 10:57 pm
I fail to see how the past two chapters showed him to be at SSB's level.
I agree, I doubt Piccolo has reached that level.

Showing teamwork between characters with very distant levels is one of the usual nonsense in Dragon Ball Super.

Krillin has the same level as Android 18 for teaming up with her.

Image
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Android 18 has the same level as Android 17 for teaming up with him.
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Android 17 has the same level as SSGSS Evo. Vegeta for teaming up with him.
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conclusion.

Krillin has the same level as SSGSS Evo. Vegeta...

The teamwork scenes are just absurd fanservice.

If we used those scenes to say what level the characters have, all Z-warriors would have the same strength in DBS.
Last edited by Kiyoharu on Fri Apr 03, 2020 1:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Why isn't Piccolo as strong or even stronger than Android 17 currently is?

Post by Dragon Wukong » Fri Apr 03, 2020 1:23 am

Tai Lung wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 12:31 am
Anyway, keeping up with Gohan is enough as Goku and Piccolo did against Raditz.again gohan is not holding back he is using all his power
Piccolo is just serving a supporting role in the fight in a classic team-up. At no point during this fight is it implied Piccolo is anywhere near Gohan's strength just for fighting alongside him.

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Re: Why isn't Piccolo as strong or even stronger than Android 17 currently is?

Post by Matches Malone » Fri Apr 03, 2020 1:32 am

I think a better question would be, why is 17 anywhere near his current level ? How on earth did he go from being equal to Cell arc Piccolo to now being on Blue's level, which is trillions of times stronger ? Then again, Krilin can somehow hold his own for a bit against Blue Goku, so I guess they've done worse.

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Re: Why isn't Piccolo as strong or even stronger than Android 17 currently is?

Post by Tai Lung » Fri Apr 03, 2020 1:33 am

Dragon Wukong wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 1:23 am
Tai Lung wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 12:31 am
Anyway, keeping up with Gohan is enough as Goku and Piccolo did against Raditz.again gohan is not holding back he is using all his power
Piccolo is just serving a supporting role in the fight in a classic team-up. At no point during this fight is it implied Piccolo is anywhere near Gohan's strength just for fighting alongside him.
androids and jaco are secondary ...
gohan and piccolo are starring in a team fight and they are fighting at the same level .. another thing is that piccolo was lying on the ground while gohan fights as happened with tagoma

they have to say? because I do not see that they have done it with 17 and all already assume their power
Matches Malone wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 1:32 am
I think a better question would be, why is 17 anywhere near his current level ? How on earth did he go from being equal to Cell arc Piccolo to now being on Blue's level, which is trillions of times stronger ? Then again, Krilin can somehow hold his own for a bit against Blue Goku, so I guess they've done worse.
Filler

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Re: Why isn't Piccolo as strong or even stronger than Android 17 currently is?

Post by Matches Malone » Fri Apr 03, 2020 4:30 am

Tai Lung wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 1:33 am
Filler
Filler is used to buy time for an anime to not catch up to the manga, something Super wasn't doing, so calling it filler doesn't excuse it.

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Re: Why isn't Piccolo as strong or even stronger than Android 17 currently is?

Post by Tai Lung » Fri Apr 03, 2020 2:43 pm

Matches Malone wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 4:30 am
Tai Lung wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 1:33 am
Filler
Filler is used to buy time for an anime to not catch up to the manga, something Super wasn't doing, so calling it filler doesn't excuse it.
That is not the function of the filler, as I said before, when a script adapts to an anime format, the material has to be extended ... especially when you only have a "script" for chapters of about 30 minutes and to it doesn't feel rushed or cut much of this can be to illustrate some event .. roshi explaining the origin of the dragon balls doesn't make sense but it works to give a message or a narrative media

no different to script, manga or visual novel the content may be finished but when changing to the animated medium much can change

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Re: Why isn't Piccolo as strong or even stronger than Android 17 currently is?

Post by Matches Malone » Fri Apr 03, 2020 2:55 pm

Tai Lung wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 2:43 pm
That is not the function of the filler, as I said before, when a script adapts to an anime format, the material has to be extended.
Fair enough, but did Goku have to go Blue of all things to fight Krillin ? it creates plot holes for no reason.

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Re: Why isn't Piccolo as strong or even stronger than Android 17 currently is?

Post by Vegeta_Sama » Fri Apr 03, 2020 3:22 pm

The more time passes, the more I realize how many of these huge powerscaling problems super had. I never was much into power levels, but when analyzing the whole series now that it's been over for 2 years, so many things don't make sense, it's unreal. Some characters can train non stop for years, and still be wimps, some characters may become as strong as the latest Saiyan transformations just by fucking around for a few months, or fighting normal humans on an island. Like, whaaaat
My interpretation of the Dragon Ball Canon

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Tai Lung
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Re: Why isn't Piccolo as strong or even stronger than Android 17 currently is?

Post by Tai Lung » Fri Apr 03, 2020 3:49 pm

Matches Malone wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 2:55 pm
Tai Lung wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 2:43 pm
That is not the function of the filler, as I said before, when a script adapts to an anime format, the material has to be extended.
Fair enough, but did Goku have to go Blue of all things to fight Krillin ? it creates plot holes for no reason.
the message was krillin he will not give up even if he faces powerful enemies even if this means his defeat but not that he will be able to defeat them, krillin did not beat goku

if it makes you feel better ... the writers have clearly said that goku is contained in those battles and that is clear when he is defeated by a blow of frost

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Re: Why isn't Piccolo as strong or even stronger than Android 17 currently is?

Post by Matches Malone » Fri Apr 03, 2020 4:16 pm

Tai Lung wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 3:49 pm
If it makes you feel better ... the writers have clearly said that goku is contained in those battles...
If anything it just shows how incompetent they are. Goku in his base form is leagues ahead of Krillin, there was never a need for him to transform into anything, much less his Blue form. What's next, is he and Vegeta going to go Blue just to play a game of baseball... :lolno: Logically speaking, no amount of holding back would prevent Krillin from being turned into a stain on the ground. I'm by no means a power level person, but even I expect some form of logic to be followed.

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