What is the difference between Kale and Broly?

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ronaldnorth_03
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What is the difference between Kale and Broly?

Post by ronaldnorth_03 » Mon Jan 27, 2020 12:13 am

Watching the Tournament of Power and Broly again, something confused me. Are Kale and Broly's uncontrolled transformations the same? Is Kale's dominated form weaker than the muscular one? Is she the transformation of Kale's Common Super Saiyan?

Is it necessary to have the common form and then the uncontrolled one? Doesn't Kale have the transformation of Common Super Saiyan or Broly who hasn't mastered the uncontrolled transformation?

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Re: What is the difference between Kale and Broly?

Post by Lollijpop » Mon Jan 27, 2020 2:17 am

I believe they are meant to be counterparts. Obviously the stories and gender are different, But because the universes differed so much, there was still meant to be a “super Saiyan of legend” in both universes

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Re: What is the difference between Kale and Broly?

Post by Thani » Mon Jan 27, 2020 7:23 pm

As lollijpop said, they're meant to be counterparts. Their transformations, therefore, are very similar in appearence and mechanics, turning them into raging killing machines. The biggest difference, I'd say, is that Broly has his "Wrathful" state stacked on his transformations, which makes him even stronger than he already is in base (strong enough to fight a SSj while having a slight edge).

Kale has actually two "dominated" forms. A Type C Super Saiyan, just like Broly's own, which is a regular Super Saiyan transformation. From there, she can go straight to Berserker, or Full Power. Then, her "Mastered" Berserker form, which is also called as her SSj2 form, is basically Kale having complete control over herself while using her Full Power, which slims her down and increases her power even further (since she's using it much more capably). If Super follow these consistencies, then Broly should be able to do the same eventually.

Maybe.

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Re: What is the difference between Kale and Broly?

Post by Kenneth La Torre » Sun Feb 02, 2020 2:44 am

Many things actually. Besides their forms and attacks looking similar, i dont see many similarities.
even their saiyan forms are not the same thing. Broly has a super saiyan form that takes in traits from oozaru, along with having an overclocked zenkai boost, and kale just has a super strong form because she is a tribute to OG broly.

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Re: What is the difference between Kale and Broly?

Post by Omgzord » Sun Feb 02, 2020 8:26 am

Well, they are each other counterparts from what I can tell.

The problem is their lore doesn't sink along with each other because Kale was made mainly by Toei's staff while the new Broly was made by Toriyama likey around the same time Toei wrote Kale as an omage for the original Broly. Vegeta comments that Kale's form is probably the original form of a Super Saiyan, they make no comparison between Kale and Broly but this is likely due to Goku and Vegeta never having the chance to actually fight Broly as his Legendry Super Saiyan state.

I am pretty sure they will touch on the Broly/Kale subject once 2uper comes back.

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Re: What is the difference between Kale and Broly?

Post by Scientist Fu » Sun Feb 02, 2020 10:50 am

In the anime :
Kale has a normal Super Saiyan form. She acquired it when Caulifla was getting beaten up by the Pride Troopers.

Her uncontrolled transformation works the same way as the old Broly's LSSJ form, overflowing Ki, very muscular, no speed loss, same hair color etc... the only difference is that DBZ Broly is pretty aware of what he is doing while Kale isn't, we can say the same thing about DBS Broly. Vegeta says that it might be the Saiyan's true form after seeing Kale in that form.

Once Kale regains consciousness with Caulifla's help she learns how to control that big bulky/berserker form, which is her strongest state.

In the manga :
We see Kale under an uncontrollable form.

Cabbe says that maybe Kale is the legendary Saiyan.

Vegeta doesn't say anything specific about her transformation except that it's just an useless form.

Now for DBS Broly, his Full Power form (big muscles) seems to be the same as Kale's uncontrollable form. He also has an enraged form, "Ikari", which is the result of the Oozaru form in a humanoid form. He also has a normal Super Saiyan form without pupils. I am not sure if Kale and Broly are exactly the same, but they seem to share the same "Berserker" form.
Last edited by Scientist Fu on Sun Feb 02, 2020 12:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: What is the difference between Kale and Broly?

Post by Psajdak » Sun Feb 02, 2020 12:29 pm

Broly has a penis, and Kale doesn't.

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Re: What is the difference between Kale and Broly?

Post by ankokudaishogun » Sun Feb 02, 2020 1:49 pm

Scientist Fu wrote:
Sun Feb 02, 2020 10:50 am
Cabbe says that maybe Kale is the legendary Saiyan.
I must point out that translation was wrong: Caulifla talks abut the legendary DEVIL Saiyan, not SUPER Saiyan.(still a Broly ref)

I am not sure if Kale and Broly are exactly the same, but they seem to share the same "Berserker" form.
I'll just add that Kale's Berserker form is never referenced as "Super Saiyan".
it's referenced as such only int he DVD bonus booklets, which uses temporary working terminology, not definitive official terminology(Vegeta's Blue Evolution is called only Blue Reinforced for example)

Also: Broly actually went quite wild(er) as Super Saiyan, as his transformation was triggered by grief for his father's death.
His Full Power didn't make him wilder. At the end, he even got back his complete sanity(eyes with pupils, just in time to see Gogeta charging a Kamehameha at him) but didn't get neither SS2 nor went down from Full Power

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Re: What is the difference between Kale and Broly?

Post by Scientist Fu » Sun Feb 02, 2020 2:47 pm

ankokudaishogun wrote:
Sun Feb 02, 2020 1:49 pm
Scientist Fu wrote:
Sun Feb 02, 2020 10:50 am
Cabbe says that maybe Kale is the legendary Saiyan.
I must point out that translation was wrong: Caulifla talks abut the legendary DEVIL Saiyan, not SUPER Saiyan.(still a Broly ref)
That's right. I couldn't find a proper translation on the internet, but I did write "legendary Saiyan" below the pictures. & I had no idea that they used the term "legendary devil Saiyan" thought it was only "legendary Saiyan". Good to know!

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Re: What is the difference between Kale and Broly?

Post by Omgzord » Sun Feb 02, 2020 3:08 pm

It's confusing cuz the movie tries to be a sequel to both anime and the manga but at the same time, it misses some elements from both media.

Kale has full control over her power in the anime but in the manga, similar to Broly's, she losses all reasons and becomes berserk. Both of their transformations have similar appearance and behavior. Is it the same transformation? Maybe but we can't say for sure.

It's not weird that Kale lacks Broly's "Ikari" form because that form draws its power from their inner Ozaru and universe 6 Saiyans has long since lost that. It's not a reach to say Kale could have likely achieved this form if she had her tail.

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Re: What is the difference between Kale and Broly?

Post by Rakurai » Sun Feb 02, 2020 8:22 pm

Just wanted to point out that both Kale & Broly have been referred to as legendary Saiyans. Kale in the manga obviously, & Broly in promotional material that I'm too lazy to look for rn, but def remember seeing it.
ankokudaishogun wrote:
Sun Feb 02, 2020 1:49 pm
Scientist Fu wrote:
Sun Feb 02, 2020 10:50 am
Cabbe says that maybe Kale is the legendary Saiyan.
I must point out that translation was wrong: Caulifla talks abut the legendary DEVIL Saiyan, not SUPER Saiyan.(still a Broly ref)
Cabba & Caulifla are talking about a legendary Saiyan who's likened to a demon/devil. No such phrase as the 'legendary devil Saiyan.'
Omgzord wrote:
Sun Feb 02, 2020 8:26 am
I am pretty sure they will touch on the Broly/Kale subject once 2uper comes back.
Or... & get this... they could touch on the subject once the DBS next arc begins after the Galactic Patrol arc?

We have a 2uper right now. It's called 'Dragon Ball Super,' it's written by Toyotarou, supervised by Toriyama, & it's being serialized in V-Jump.
Super Dragon Ball Heroes Universe Mission translation compilation here. All translations are done and owned by me.

SDBH 9th anniversary the secret development interview here. Learn how original SDBH characters such as SS3 Raditz, SS4 Bardock, Robel, & more were conceived!

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Re: What is the difference between Kale and Broly?

Post by Omgzord » Sun Feb 02, 2020 8:46 pm

The Moro arc is taking forever, to be honest with it being monthly and the arc taking this long.

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Re: What is the difference between Kale and Broly?

Post by SSJgogeto » Sun Feb 02, 2020 8:58 pm

This is what I think:

Kale: base form < Super Saiyan < "Full Power" < Super Saiyan 2
Broly: base form < Ikari < Super Saiyan + Ikari < Full Power + Ikari

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Re: What is the difference between Kale and Broly?

Post by Rakurai » Sun Feb 02, 2020 11:51 pm

Omgzord wrote:
Sun Feb 02, 2020 8:46 pm
The Moro arc is taking forever, to be honest with it being monthly and the arc taking this long.
We seem to be reaching the climax, so if you're just waiting for it to finish then it's possible w/in the next 5-6 chapters (& that's a highball).

At the very least, I guarantee it'll finish before any anime announcement happens, if it'll even ever come back. Certainly before a DBS film as well.

--

Oh yeah... and then there was this shit from the Broly film promotional pamphlet.
Kale: "Female version of Broly" :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: What is the difference between Kale and Broly?

Post by Tai Lung » Mon Feb 03, 2020 12:17 am

Rakurai wrote:
Sun Feb 02, 2020 8:22 pm
We have a 2uper right now. It's called 'Dragon Ball Super,' it's written by Toyotarou, supervised by Toriyama, & it's being serialized in V-Jump.
I doubt that happens ... in the manga they didn't have so much importance

and the promise to go to sadala comes from the anime ... in the manga that interest does not seem to exist
it seems unlikely especially with the moro arc

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Re: What is the difference between Kale and Broly?

Post by head_cha_la » Mon Feb 03, 2020 1:41 am

It's not an anime thing, Cabba and Vegeta talk about the planet Sadala in both media.

Also it is not necessary that there is a link with the planet Sadala to see Cabba, Kale and Caulifla again.

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Re: What is the difference between Kale and Broly?

Post by ankokudaishogun » Mon Feb 03, 2020 4:05 pm

Rakurai wrote:
Sun Feb 02, 2020 8:22 pm
Cabba & Caulifla are talking about a legendary Saiyan who's likened to a demon/devil. No such phrase as the 'legendary devil Saiyan.'
I mixed things up a little too, here the relevant panels:
https://imgur.com/6NTV8Dc

Cabba first thinks Kale might be the "Legendary Saiyan"(伝説のサイヤ人)

Caulifla then asks him if by "Legendary Saiyan" he refers to the "Devil Saiyan"(悪魔のサイヤ人) that appears once every 1000 years

The important part was neither of them calling it SUPER Saiyan, as that form AND name was unknown to them until the U-6 Tournament
Kale has full control over her power in the anime but in the manga, similar to Broly's, she losses all reasons and becomes berserk.
Not really:
Anime has Kale as relatively very weak until she explodes and goes full Berserk.
After the second time she goes berserk, she manages to go Super Saiyan without running wild.
Later she gets full control of her Berserk power as Super Saiyan 2

Manga Kale has super-great power already before transforming, but when she does, she goes full berserk.
In the manga, she never manages to get back control and go either Super Saiyan or SS2.

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Re: What is the difference between Kale and Broly?

Post by Tai Lung » Mon Feb 03, 2020 10:30 pm

head_cha_la wrote:
Mon Feb 03, 2020 1:41 am
It's not an anime thing, Cabba and Vegeta talk about the planet Sadala in both media.
surely ... but as far as I remember only in the anime version ... vegeta showed interest in going and knowing sadala.
head_cha_la wrote:
Mon Feb 03, 2020 1:41 am
Also it is not necessary that there is a link with the planet Sadala to see Cabba, Kale and Caulifla again.
I think it impossible ... watching they appear again unless .. goku is involved in the story

cabba is not necessary ...also In the anime, Goku formed a bond with Caulifla and Kale, in addition they promising to fight again.
I consider ... that in the anime there are more elements that justify that ... something that does not happen in the manga

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Re: What is the difference between Kale and Broly?

Post by head_cha_la » Tue Feb 04, 2020 1:56 am

Tai Lung wrote:
Mon Feb 03, 2020 10:30 pm
head_cha_la wrote:
Mon Feb 03, 2020 1:41 am
It's not an anime thing, Cabba and Vegeta talk about the planet Sadala in both media.
surely ... but as far as I remember only in the anime version ... vegeta showed interest in going and knowing sadala.
head_cha_la wrote:
Mon Feb 03, 2020 1:41 am
Also it is not necessary that there is a link with the planet Sadala to see Cabba, Kale and Caulifla again.
I think it impossible ... watching they appear again unless .. goku is involved in the story

cabba is not necessary ...also In the anime, Goku formed a bond with Caulifla and Kale, in addition they promising to fight again.
I consider ... that in the anime there are more elements that justify that ... something that does not happen in the manga
If I say no bullshit, in the manga Vegeta asks Cabba to show him Sadala when he has an opportunity in the arc Champa.

But, as I said there's no need for the arc to be called Sadala to see universe 6 again, there will inevitably be plots linked with several universes. And especially universe 6 has something that other universes don't have, the Super Dragon Balls, at some point universe 6 will be in danger because of it.

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Re: What is the difference between Kale and Broly?

Post by Rakurai » Tue Feb 04, 2020 8:02 am

ankokudaishogun wrote:
Mon Feb 03, 2020 4:05 pm
I mixed things up a little too, here the relevant panels:
https://imgur.com/6NTV8Dc

Cabba first thinks Kale might be the "Legendary Saiyan"(伝説のサイヤ人)

Caulifla then asks him if by "Legendary Saiyan" he refers to the "Devil Saiyan"(悪魔のサイヤ人) that appears once every 1000 years

The important part was neither of them calling it SUPER Saiyan, as that form AND name was unknown to them until the U-6 Tournament
I think that based on the context, that Saiyan they're referring to is more formally or conventionally known as "Legendary Saiyan," w/ Caulifla just describing aspects of that Saiyan further to confirm who Cabba is referring to. It's a clear relation to the LSS legend of U7. But in the end, readers get the reference so mehhh.

I still remember Viz messing that part up, writing in 'Legendary Super Saiyan' before the correction. Toyotarou deliberately omitted the 'Super' part based on U6's lack of the SS term. The guy pays real attention to his DB details.
Super Dragon Ball Heroes Universe Mission translation compilation here. All translations are done and owned by me.

SDBH 9th anniversary the secret development interview here. Learn how original SDBH characters such as SS3 Raditz, SS4 Bardock, Robel, & more were conceived!

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