Spirit Control

[Mad Swami]

I love the idea of spirit control. However I'm curious on how it works. For instance, what kind of power boost would mastery over it lend? How much stronger is spirit controlled Vegeta comparatively to what he was upon arrival?

Aside from strength what else can it do. I am aware of size manipulation, and instant transmission?

[Peach]

It's hard to say how stronger Vegeta is until we see him fight again.

Goku got significantly stronger from learning one basic spirit control technique from the Yard Rats. Strong enough to take down both King Cold and Frieza in the future timeline and block Trunks' sword with one finger in the present timeline. Vegeta should have improvement, right?

I don't think Vegeta is that much stronger personally. I think he will bridge the gap between himself and Moro/Ultra Instinct Goku through the use of techniques, sophisticated tactics, and stronger durability and his natural situational awareness. Maybe he sends a dummy duplicate of himself with no energy for Moro to absorb, and when Moro is done, Vegeta instant transmissions with a big bang attack during an opening. Moro's ability could become a gamble once he realizes that absorbing energy from the wrong clone leaves himself open.

[Mad Swami]

It's hard to say how stronger Vegeta is until we see him fight again.

Goku got significantly stronger from learning one basic spirit control technique from the Yard Rats. Strong enough to take down both King Cold and Frieza in the future timeline and block Trunks' sword with one finger in the present timeline. Vegeta should have improvement, right?

I don't think Vegeta is that much stronger personally. I think he will bridge the gap between himself and Moro/Ultra Instinct Goku through the use of techniques, sophisticated tactics, and stronger durability and his natural situational awareness. Maybe he sends a dummy duplicate of himself with no energy for Moro to absorb, and when Moro is done, Vegeta instant transmissions with a big bang attack during an opening. Moro's ability could become a gamble once he realizes that absorbing energy from the wrong clone leaves himself open.

That's interesting. Did Goku learn the same level of Spirit control as Vegeta however? Like learned Instant Transmission but did he learn to use it to amplify his power

[GodPrince91]

It all depends on whether Toriyama continues to shove goku down our throats and throw vegeta aside or if he actually realizes putting the main character and his rival at the same playing field lends to a more interesting story and dynamic.



we don't know much about spirit control besides from the fact that it allows Vegeta to use his power more efficiently - as in expel a lot more energy with much less effort. However I believe there is more to it than that:



In chapter 55, vegeta was about to fire a blast at the zarbon looking guy's ship to prevent him from escaping. But the ship that the zarbon guy launched at vegeta before came crashing into the ship he was escaping in, effectively killing him. Vegeta thought that the guy killed himself by stupidly crashing into the very ship he launched at Vegeta earlier and it may appear that way at first look.
But I think vegeta unknowingly had control of the burning ship the entire time! Through his spirit power, he was able to lock that spaceship in place and then launch it at zarbon dude when he was escaping. It sounds like a crazy theory but I don't think it was mere coincidence that zarbon dude was dumb enough to crash into the ship he threw at vegeta himself. It seems to me like vegeta froze that burning ship in a time lock then released it at the right time to kill the enemy subconsciously.

Then in chapter 56 we see this:



It seems like Pybara is attempting to drain all of vegeta's ki here which is why vegeta looks exhausted and out of breath. But the question is how is vegeta attempting to stop the power drain? I think it sort of relates to my time lock theory in that vegeta is attempting to isolate and store his energy in an alternate frozen dimension simultaneously as Pybara is attempting to steal it. Similar to what we saw with Hit vs Jiren in the Anime when Hit froze Jiren in a time lock.

If his spirit power turns out to be something similar to this I think it would be even more broken than Ultra Instinct. Vegeta would have access to Hack Ki abilities and isolate his energy in various places upon command and unleash them in a blink of an eye.

[TheSaiyanGod]

We don't know exactly how much stronger Vegeta got, we just know that according to Pybara, his previous level before balancing spirit and body is nowhere near the current Vegeta (and now, with 2 more months of training). And that power up turned a casual finger beam into a huge blast bigger than his body.
And we also know that after training, Vegeta's spirit became more polished than Goku's, making him able to properly use all his power (which he couldn't do before). Vegeta also got the ability to feel energies / spirits on the other side of the galaxy, so yeah.

Regarding the techniques, size manipulation seems to be just the way the Yardrats use their spirit control, but Instant Transmission seems to be a basic technique that is mandatory to be able to learn the higher level techniques, even though Vegeta has skipped this. part because there would be no time for him to learn everything, so he’s learning a specific technique to defeat Moro

[dbgtFO]

It all depends on whether Toriyama continues to shove goku down our throats and throw vegeta aside or if he actually realizes putting the main character and his rival at the same playing field lends to a more interesting story and dynamic.

Spoiler:

we don't know much about spirit control besides from the fact that it allows Vegeta to use his power more efficiently - as in expel a lot more energy with much less effort. However I believe there is more to it than that:

Spoiler:

In chapter 55, vegeta was about to fire a blast at the zarbon looking guy's ship to prevent him from escaping. But the ship that the zarbon guy launched at vegeta before came crashing into the ship he was escaping in, effectively killing him. Vegeta thought that the guy killed himself by stupidly crashing into the very ship he launched at Vegeta earlier and it may appear that way at first look.
But I think vegeta unknowingly had control of the burning ship the entire time! Through his spirit power, he was able to lock that spaceship in place and then launch it at zarbon dude when he was escaping. It sounds like a crazy theory but I don't think it was mere coincidence that zarbon dude was dumb enough to crash into the ship he threw at vegeta himself. It seems to me like vegeta froze that burning ship in a time lock then released it at the right time to kill the enemy subconsciously.

Then in chapter 56 we see this:

Spoiler:

It seems like Pybara is attempting to drain all of vegeta's ki here which is why vegeta looks exhausted and out of breath. But the question is how is vegeta attempting to stop the power drain? I think it sort of relates to my time lock theory in that vegeta is attempting to isolate and store his energy in an alternate frozen dimension simultaneously as Pybara is attempting to steal it. Similar to what we saw with Hit vs Jiren in the Anime when Hit froze Jiren in a time lock.

If his spirit power turns out to be something similar to this I think it would be even more broken than Ultra Instinct. Vegeta would have access to Hack Ki abilities and isolate his energy in various places upon command and unleash them in a blink of an eye.

Ooh, I like that. Great write up!
I too was thinking he would need some kind of technique to protect him from the energy drain and this really seems like the direction it might go in.

[Peach]

It's hard to say how stronger Vegeta is until we see him fight again.

Goku got significantly stronger from learning one basic spirit control technique from the Yard Rats. Strong enough to take down both King Cold and Frieza in the future timeline and block Trunks' sword with one finger in the present timeline. Vegeta should have improvement, right?

I don't think Vegeta is that much stronger personally. I think he will bridge the gap between himself and Moro/Ultra Instinct Goku through the use of techniques, sophisticated tactics, and stronger durability and his natural situational awareness. Maybe he sends a dummy duplicate of himself with no energy for Moro to absorb, and when Moro is done, Vegeta instant transmissions with a big bang attack during an opening. Moro's ability could become a gamble once he realizes that absorbing energy from the wrong clone leaves himself open.

That's interesting. Did Goku learn the same level of Spirit control as Vegeta however? Like learned Instant Transmission but did he learn to use it to amplify his power

Goku learned only the most basic spirit control technique after months of training. It can be inferred that the finger used to block Trunks' sword was a spirit control technique too. Goku seemed to have learned the basics and went back to Earth. Vegeta is learning more advanced stuff.

[Mad Swami]

It's hard to say how stronger Vegeta is until we see him fight again.

Goku got significantly stronger from learning one basic spirit control technique from the Yard Rats. Strong enough to take down both King Cold and Frieza in the future timeline and block Trunks' sword with one finger in the present timeline. Vegeta should have improvement, right?

I don't think Vegeta is that much stronger personally. I think he will bridge the gap between himself and Moro/Ultra Instinct Goku through the use of techniques, sophisticated tactics, and stronger durability and his natural situational awareness. Maybe he sends a dummy duplicate of himself with no energy for Moro to absorb, and when Moro is done, Vegeta instant transmissions with a big bang attack during an opening. Moro's ability could become a gamble once he realizes that absorbing energy from the wrong clone leaves himself open.

That's interesting. Did Goku learn the same level of Spirit control as Vegeta however? Like learned Instant Transmission but did he learn to use it to amplify his power

Goku learned only the most basic spirit control technique after months of training. It can be inferred that the finger used to block Trunks' sword was a spirit control technique too. Goku seemed to have learned the basics and went back to Earth. Vegeta is learning more advanced stuff.

Ok that's what I was assuming, makes sense

[Hugo Boss]

That might explain why Goku tends to evolve faster than Vegeta as well.

[GodVegetto91]

That might explain why Goku tends to evolve faster than Vegeta as well.

Did* now lol

[ssj3kakarot]

Spirit control was never something when Akira wrote Goku going to Yardrat. Goku didn’t use Spirit Control to block Trunks sword with a finger. He did that bc he is a beast. It’s implied Goku trained on Yardrat and learned IT, we don’t know if Goku gained power level while there but one could assume that any training Goku does would improve his PL.

Instantaneous movement never required spirit control until The Moro arc.

Ever since Spirit Control, in the sense that the Yardrats are concerned, has been introduced people keep trying to use head canon as reasons why Goku has always been ahead of Vegeta. Goku will always end up on top the leaderboard, even if he is passed for a moment. It’s his show, and that’s “unfair” for others but that’s what happens when you’re the main character.

My hope is that Super furthers the plot by thoughtful story that doesn’t detract from characters to make others look good.

Spirit Control is a cool idea but it causes too many problems which causes you to assume and use your own story instead of the foundation that Dbz already very neatly layer out for us. I’m all for Vegeta getting upgrades, hell, even surpassing Goku. I just think having him learn it from Yardrats causes issue/ questions.

[Whis]

Vegeta needs to learn spirit gun!