Baggie_Saiyan wrote: ↑
Tue Feb 25, 2020 9:52 am
For the millionth time why do people keep spouting like they know what they are talking about. Evolution Vegeta was ignored for marketing for an entire year* after it debuted (even now Evolution Vegeta is heavily mismarketed since all they seem to do is just add pupils). Like pretty much everything else in DBS nothing was done to "sell merchandise" since barely anything was even flipping marketed. We are half way into 2020 and we're still waiting for them to do something with Kale (the character that everyone screamed was oy made to sell merch...) Anything Toei did in DBS was for what they thought would benefit the narrative.
already said it, but I will repeat it again: toys aren’t the only things they market. You are forgetting about TWO incredible money-makers, Dokkan Battle and Legends. Those games make a ton of money by adding the myriad of new forms/characters from Super. Including, of course, Kale and Blue Evolution Vegeta. Not to mention that Kale is the reason why Kefla even exists in the first place, and she’s incredibly fucking popular to the point she went trending on twitter when she was announced for FighterZ. And she was also DLC for Xenoverse 2. She’s in Dokkan Battle and is also one of the most anticipated characters to come to Legends, and there’s no doubt many people will spend lot of money to summon her in that game once she’s released.
So, please, for the millionth time: stop spouting like you know everything about the decisions of the companies behind Dragon Ball Super just because you follow their toys.
Miracles wrote: ↑
Tue Feb 25, 2020 7:57 pm
That's why Toriyama does not bring TOEI's headcanon images into his authoritative movies written by him. I'm so glad he kept to his guns and kept Red and Blue special. These variations and stack-on's of Blue by the anime is overdress and depicts them as needy.
I too am glad the anime-only forms didn’t appear in Broly. I just wished Toriyama could have told Toei to not go ahead and introduce those forms in the first place... why can’t the anime be true to Toriyama’s vision and writing ways?
I hate it when they add such pointless, garbage fanservice to the story. Especially when said story is supposed to be Toriyama’s story, so when they decide to add their original stuff and deviate from the outline, it they should first ask themselves “but would Toriyama make this a thing?” and if the answer is no or maybe, then they shouldn’t make it.
Blue Kaioken is the only acceptable thing they did. It’s something Toriyama could have done, but then they ruined it when it had no drawbacks at all and went against Toriyama’s idea of Goku and Vegeta being equal.
I didn’t even mind Blue Kaioken, and I liked how after the U6 arc they came up with a big drawback. If it only appeared sporadically as a move, like when Goku used it against Zamasu, it would have been perfect.
But now I despise it because it lead to the creation of Blue Evolution.
Aim wrote: ↑
Tue Feb 25, 2020 11:54 pm
I highly doubt Toriyama knew what the design and philosophy would be behind the form. Which is why I doubt they consulted him first. The Super anime is a cluster of strange concepts, like Super Saiyan Rosé being Goku Black's version of Super Saiyan. However, SSGSSE and SSGSSK are by far some of the worst ones I've seen.
This clashes with Toriyama's style of being an author, he could have made Super Saiyan God's design similar to what 'Toei' had imagined, macho and big muscles similar to Super Saiyan 4, however, he went against viewer expectations. He probably gave Toyotaro the OK for Vegetto because it wasn't that big of a deal, however, adding something like SSGSS Kaioken and SSGSS Evolution gives me the feeling Toriyama would have put a stop to it. Why do you think we never see it in Toriyama's scripts? Toriyama has wanted to go against fan's expectations for as long as I can remember.
I think Toriyama must approve every original idea both Toei and Toyotaro have. So for some reason he approved of Evolution, even though the design is terrible. Maybe not as terrible as Super Saiyan God’s original one? I mean Evolution, without the aura, still fits Dragon Ball considering it’s just a copy of Grade 2.
The problem is that it doesn’t fit with what was established about muscle mass slowing down (they even had Caulifla make that same mistake once again, for fuck’s sake!) and doesn’t fit with Toriyama’s philosophy when designing strong forms. It should have had drawbacks, but it hadn’t.
By the way, I believe there’s no way Toriyama saw that garbage aura they gave Vegeta before approving the form, or else he would have never given them the ok in my opinion.
As for Black, I don’t have problems with Black skipping straight to Rosé and it’s not a strange concept considering how powerful Black’s base form already was. Actually I bet Toei didn’t understand that Black was supposed to have the normal Super Saiyan too, or else there’s no way they wouldn’t have used it. Or maybe they thought it would have made no sense for Black, who was already stronger than SS2 Trunks, to have two forms on top of that power.
Actually it’s quite weird they won’t use Black’s SSJ form for Dokkan Battle or Legends. Maybe they don’t want to confuse fans by mixing up the anime with the manga.
Fans aren't reliable. If you let fans write just one Dragon Ball story, it would turn out to be worse than Dragon Ball Absalon. With people getting hyped over shitty 'Super Saiyan 100' forms with huge muscles and hair that just has no Toriyama appeal. This situation is no different in my opinion. Fans were excited, no doubt about it, but I've found that most of the time these people are absolutely clueless with what makes Dragon Ball, Dragon Ball. Someone who understands Toriyama's story and has read it from the very beginning will most likely have a much broader perspective and see the flaws in these forms and how they just don't fit into the story.
I so totally agree on what you wrote here.