SSGSS Evolution is a Disgustingly Bad, Ugly Transformation

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Hugo Boss
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Re: SSGSS Evolution is a Disgustingly Bad, Ugly Transformation

Post by Hugo Boss » Tue Mar 10, 2020 7:08 am

I think the manga approach makes sense, but that’s not what I got from the way Toriyama described SSBlue in the movie.
Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan (超サイヤ人ゴッドSS; sūpā saiya-jin goddo sūpā saiya-jin)
Son Goku
I made his hair light blue to express how “by overcoming a certain limit he has become both strong and tranquil, able to keep his composure in a fight”.
Vegeta
I gave Vegeta black clothes because I figured that maybe Bulma had modified his combat uniform to add some slight improvements. On that note, it was constructed by the [Capsule Corp.] development branch under Bulma’s instructions.
— Akira Toriyama, Dragon Ball Volume “F”
By tranquil, I assume he has become able to control all that abundant power without being overwhelmed by it, like with Golden Freeza. I feel introducing that tax in the manga kinda contradicts this point, but fair enough.

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Re: SSGSS Evolution is a Disgustingly Bad, Ugly Transformation

Post by The Undying » Tue Mar 10, 2020 9:30 am

Hugo Boss wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 7:08 am
I feel introducing that tax in the manga kinda contradicts this point, but fair enough.

Welcome back, Marlowe!
For sure. To be clear, I don't think it's at all what Toriyama originally intended for Blue - not to mention a phrase like "keeping his composure in a fight after overcoming a certain limit" is clearly something the manga wants to use for Ultra Instinct instead. I just think those traits are a bit more befitting for a form that doesn't belong to the Super Saiyan umbrella.

And thanks! Glad to be back.
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Re: SSGSS Evolution is a Disgustingly Bad, Ugly Transformation

Post by Hugo Boss » Tue Mar 10, 2020 11:08 am

The Undying wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 9:30 am
[...] a phrase like "keeping his composure in a fight after overcoming a certain limit" is clearly something the manga wants to use for Ultra Instinct instead. I just think those traits are a bit more befitting for a form that doesn't belong to the Super Saiyan umbrella.
Hmmm :think: After reading it again, it really fits how Ultra Instinct has been portrayed in the manga, which makes me question why he came up with Super Saiyan Blue in such a way.

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Re: SSGSS Evolution is a Disgustingly Bad, Ugly Transformation

Post by Kataphrut » Thu Mar 12, 2020 2:12 am

Hugo Boss wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 11:08 am
The Undying wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 9:30 am
[...] a phrase like "keeping his composure in a fight after overcoming a certain limit" is clearly something the manga wants to use for Ultra Instinct instead. I just think those traits are a bit more befitting for a form that doesn't belong to the Super Saiyan umbrella.
Hmmm :think: After reading it again, it really fits how Ultra Instinct has been portrayed in the manga, which makes me question why he came up with Super Saiyan Blue in such a way.
The first time we saw Super Saiyan Blue, in Resurrection F the movie, it was shown to have much better energy control than Golden Freeza. Goku transforms with a quick kiai and a cool crystal effect, while Freeza screams the house down. Goku is able to sustain the form easily while Freeza gets gassed. Even though we don't get a lot of info about it, that combined with Toriyama's design comments make it seem like that's what he was going for. That this was the calm, collected form. God had the same deal: one of the little touches I like in Battle of Gods is that Goku and Beerus fighting in the city caused no collateral damage. We're so used to battles in Dragon Ball being these big destructive affairs with just the wind coming off the characters being able to level mountains. So having them just flit about through the city fighting without causing more than some mild shockwaves made it feel like things were escalating.

It's a bummer that around the time the DBS manga introduced the stamina limit on Blue and the anime followed suit, Blue just became another screamy powerful form, even more of a recolour of Super Saiyan than it was accused of being. Again, compare Goku's cool, quick transformation in Res F to the scream-fest in Broly, which of course many fans said they prefer. It's nice that God seems to have kept its calm, and a lot of those aspects have been transferred to Ultra Instinct, but it speaks to a lack of consistency.

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Re: SSGSS Evolution is a Disgustingly Bad, Ugly Transformation

Post by Aim » Tue Mar 17, 2020 8:13 am

Hugo Boss wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 11:08 am
The Undying wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 9:30 am
[...] a phrase like "keeping his composure in a fight after overcoming a certain limit" is clearly something the manga wants to use for Ultra Instinct instead. I just think those traits are a bit more befitting for a form that doesn't belong to the Super Saiyan umbrella.
Hmmm :think: After reading it again, it really fits how Ultra Instinct has been portrayed in the manga, which makes me question why he came up with Super Saiyan Blue in such a way.
I mean, you can still be calm and keep your composure without using Ultra Instinct. It makes sense with Goku using SSGSS.

Ultra Instinct seems like a 'godly' technique/form that utilizes that philosophy more literally.

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Re: SSGSS Evolution is a Disgustingly Bad, Ugly Transformation

Post by Kiyoharu » Sat Apr 04, 2020 3:08 pm

Image

I would rather see Bald Vegeta than see that transformation again.

Evolution Vegeta is one of the ugliest things I've ever seen in Dragon Ball.

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Re: SSGSS Evolution is a Disgustingly Bad, Ugly Transformation

Post by Vegeta_Sama » Sun Apr 05, 2020 6:55 am

I still don't understand why they decided to give him the ''Kawaii'' aura lmao
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Re: SSGSS Evolution is a Disgustingly Bad, Ugly Transformation

Post by Aim » Mon Apr 06, 2020 9:19 am

Vegeta_Sama wrote:
Sun Apr 05, 2020 6:55 am
I still don't understand why they decided to give him the ''Kawaii'' aura lmao
:?:

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Re: SSGSS Evolution is a Disgustingly Bad, Ugly Transformation

Post by The Monkey King » Mon Apr 06, 2020 1:18 pm

Seeing Evolution and Kaioken side by side was always such an eyesore

Image

WHO in their right mind though this looked good?
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Re: SSGSS Evolution is a Disgustingly Bad, Ugly Transformation

Post by Vegeta_Sama » Mon Apr 06, 2020 8:16 pm

Aim wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 9:19 am
Vegeta_Sama wrote:
Sun Apr 05, 2020 6:55 am
I still don't understand why they decided to give him the ''Kawaii'' aura lmao
:?:
What are you confused about? The picture above shows it perfectly, the cute sparkly bright aura they gave him is an eyesore
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Re: SSGSS Evolution is a Disgustingly Bad, Ugly Transformation

Post by Miracles » Mon Apr 06, 2020 8:48 pm

The Monkey King wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 1:18 pm
Seeing Evolution and Kaioken side by side was always such an eyesore

Image

WHO in their right mind though this looked good?
TOEI...lol

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Re: SSGSS Evolution is a Disgustingly Bad, Ugly Transformation

Post by Aim » Tue Apr 07, 2020 1:46 am

Vegeta_Sama wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 8:16 pm
Aim wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 9:19 am
Vegeta_Sama wrote:
Sun Apr 05, 2020 6:55 am
I still don't understand why they decided to give him the ''Kawaii'' aura lmao
:?:
What are you confused about? The picture above shows it perfectly, the cute sparkly bright aura they gave him is an eyesore
Oh, I don't think it's cute, if anything it looks like some shit MASTARMEDIA cooked up a while ago.

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Re: SSGSS Evolution is a Disgustingly Bad, Ugly Transformation

Post by Sadala Elite » Tue Apr 07, 2020 7:08 pm

Miracles wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 8:48 pm
The Monkey King wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 1:18 pm
Seeing Evolution and Kaioken side by side was always such an eyesore

Image

WHO in their right mind though this looked good?
TOEI...lol
And apparently Toyotaro too, because decided to bring it into the manga, aura and all lmao.

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Re: SSGSS Evolution is a Disgustingly Bad, Ugly Transformation

Post by Miracles » Tue Apr 07, 2020 7:22 pm

Sadala Elite wrote:
Tue Apr 07, 2020 7:08 pm
Miracles wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 8:48 pm
The Monkey King wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 1:18 pm
Seeing Evolution and Kaioken side by side was always such an eyesore

Image

WHO in their right mind though this looked good?
TOEI...lol
And apparently Toyotaro too, because decided to bring it into the manga, aura and all lmao.
I don't think Toyotaro has TOEI's sparkly Crest toothpaste Vegeta in his adaptation.Just the aura's outer surface design changed.
Goku...I believe...Did stack KK on top of Blue in the manga as well. Still I'm glad Toriyama never put any of those forms in the main story of DBS.

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Re: SSGSS Evolution is a Disgustingly Bad, Ugly Transformation

Post by The Undying » Tue Apr 07, 2020 9:25 pm

In the manga, Goku uses a "similar principle" to Kaioken to draw from his deepest reserves for a "temporary boost", but Kuririn only says it's similar. I don't even know if he multiplied his strength per se, since he's just power-stressing his Blue form.

Blue Evolution and Blue Kaioken are anime-only. The manga's equivalents aren't really treated as different transformations.
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Re: SSGSS Evolution is a Disgustingly Bad, Ugly Transformation

Post by Miracles » Tue Apr 07, 2020 10:23 pm

The Undying wrote:
Tue Apr 07, 2020 9:25 pm
In the manga, Goku uses a "similar principle" to Kaioken to draw from his deepest reserves for a "temporary boost", but Kuririn only says it's similar. I don't even know if he multiplied his strength per se, since he's just power-stressing his Blue form.

Blue Evolution and Blue Kaioken are anime-only. The manga's equivalents aren't really treated as different transformations.
"Similar principle." Thanks...It's not KK Blue then.

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Re: SSGSS Evolution is a Disgustingly Bad, Ugly Transformation

Post by Koitsukai » Tue Apr 07, 2020 11:22 pm

Miracles wrote:
Tue Apr 07, 2020 10:23 pm
The Undying wrote:
Tue Apr 07, 2020 9:25 pm
In the manga, Goku uses a "similar principle" to Kaioken to draw from his deepest reserves for a "temporary boost", but Kuririn only says it's similar. I don't even know if he multiplied his strength per se, since he's just power-stressing his Blue form.

Blue Evolution and Blue Kaioken are anime-only. The manga's equivalents aren't really treated as different transformations.
"Similar principle." Thanks...It's not KK Blue then.
I still don't see a clear difference though, similar principle doesn't differ much from the actual technique, to me. Wouldn't he be just doing the same but without being the "official" gimmick and without the aura?
While definitely not a 10x or 20x boost like in the anime, it is implied at least a regular kaioken was in play. Considering how outclassed Goku was, I assume he'd double his SSB power without actually doing the kaioken. I mean, the only difference I see is the lack of aura and it being like a one-time-only, burst thing like KKx20 was in Namek.
Sounds like a Blue Goku-version of the kaioken to me, a Goku-ken lol

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Re: SSGSS Evolution is a Disgustingly Bad, Ugly Transformation

Post by Miracles » Tue Apr 07, 2020 11:32 pm

Koitsukai wrote:
Tue Apr 07, 2020 11:22 pm
Miracles wrote:
Tue Apr 07, 2020 10:23 pm
The Undying wrote:
Tue Apr 07, 2020 9:25 pm
In the manga, Goku uses a "similar principle" to Kaioken to draw from his deepest reserves for a "temporary boost", but Kuririn only says it's similar. I don't even know if he multiplied his strength per se, since he's just power-stressing his Blue form.

Blue Evolution and Blue Kaioken are anime-only. The manga's equivalents aren't really treated as different transformations.
"Similar principle." Thanks...It's not KK Blue then.
I still don't see a clear difference though, similar principle doesn't differ much from the actual technique, to me. Wouldn't he be just doing the same but without being the "official" gimmick and without the aura?
While definitely not a 10x or 20x boost like in the anime, it is implied at least a regular kaioken was in play. Considering how outclassed Goku was, I assume he'd double his SSB power without actually doing the kaioken. I mean, the only difference I see is the lack of aura and it being like a one-time-only, burst thing like KKx20 was in Namek.
Sounds like a Blue Goku-version of the kaioken to me, a Goku-ken lol
lol I assume "similar principle" is something like Roshi's knock off UI movements being a "similar principle" compared to the Real McCoy. Goku stressed his body, adding more power the same way KK does. However, he didn't actually use KK to do so.

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Re: SSGSS Evolution is a Disgustingly Bad, Ugly Transformation

Post by MechaTrunks » Wed Apr 08, 2020 7:14 am

Miracles wrote:
Tue Apr 07, 2020 11:32 pm
lol I assume "similar principle" is something like Roshi's knock off UI movements being a "similar principle" compared to the Real McCoy. Goku stressed his body, adding more power the same way KK does. However, he didn't actually use KK to do so.
I agree with you. What Goku did was more comparable to Gohan exhorting the last bits of his strength in a short burst in his KameHame against Cell than in using the KK to multiply your strength.
Goku simply forced his body to extract every bit of strength from it he could.

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Re: SSGSS Evolution is a Disgustingly Bad, Ugly Transformation

Post by The Undying » Wed Apr 08, 2020 9:13 am

Miracles and MechaTrunks are correct. It's exactly as Whis described: Goku was just overexerting his body and pushing it to the limit. He also mentioned it was self-damaging, which is likely what prompted the comparison to Kaioken in the first place. The similarities are entirely superficial though.

Really, this is standard stuff. We've seen Vegeta do it many times.
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