Is Godku a thing any more

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Mad Swami
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Is Godku a thing any more

Post by Mad Swami » Sat Feb 29, 2020 2:47 am

Now I need to know this. Goku absorbed god power into his base during Bog, it seems in the proceeding arc he uses this against a much stronger Frieza and then it makes a few more appearances. However I hear this isn't his base but a new form. I am aware of God like saiyan or Saiyan beyond god but I am pretty sure those are names for the new base sort of like a category less then a form. Their bases being strong enough to be God like saiyans.

What I consider evidence for this being the power of his base:
Goku vs a stronger Buu
Goku vs Beerus and exciting him
Copy Vegeta vs Gotenks SSJ3
Goku Black's base power
And Goku vs Hit

What is the answer?

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Re: Is Godku a thing any more

Post by Matches Malone » Sat Feb 29, 2020 10:05 am

Now that he and Vegeta both use SsjG, the idea of them having that power in their base seems to have been left behind, as there would be no need to transform if your base was already that strong.

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Re: Is Godku a thing any more

Post by emperior » Sat Feb 29, 2020 10:59 am

He’s not. But it seems like his base form is still a lot stronger than he was at the beginning of Super and his transformations don’t provide huge boosts as one would expect. For example Super Saiyan surely doesn’t seem like a 50x power-up as it was on Namek (and hasn’t felt like it for a long time).
Or else Goku would have never been able to do anything in his base against Broly.

So, for me, it feels like standard Super Saiyan is a 5x boost, God is a 10 or 20x boost and Blue is a 50x boost.
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Re: Is Godku a thing any more

Post by Mad Swami » Sat Feb 29, 2020 1:27 pm

emperior wrote:
Sat Feb 29, 2020 10:59 am
He’s not. But it seems like his base form is still a lot stronger than he was at the beginning of Super and his transformations don’t provide huge boosts as one would expect. For example Super Saiyan surely doesn’t seem like a 50x power-up as it was on Namek (and hasn’t felt like it for a long time).
Or else Goku would have never been able to do anything in his base against Broly.

So, for me, it feels like standard Super Saiyan is a 5x boost, God is a 10 or 20x boost and Blue is a 50x boost.
What about SSJ2 amd SSJ3?

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Re: Is Godku a thing any more

Post by Mad Swami » Sat Feb 29, 2020 1:28 pm

Matches Malone wrote:
Sat Feb 29, 2020 10:05 am
Now that he and Vegeta both use SsjG, the idea of them having that power in their base seems to have been left behind, as there would be no need to transform if your base was already that strong.
I thought Super's power scaling was just crazy

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Re: Is Godku a thing any more

Post by Mad Swami » Sat Feb 29, 2020 1:29 pm

Matches Malone wrote:
Sat Feb 29, 2020 10:05 am
Now that he and Vegeta both use SsjG, the idea of them having that power in their base seems to have been left behind, as there would be no need to transform if your base was already that strong.
when was it dropped also?

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Re: Is Godku a thing any more

Post by Matches Malone » Sat Feb 29, 2020 1:50 pm

Mad Swami wrote:
Sat Feb 29, 2020 1:29 pm
when was it dropped also?
I think it was dropped when they decided to reintroduce the original 3 Ssj forms in the Champa arc. If their base was as strong as SsjG, what would be the point of using a weaker form like Ssj1 ?

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Re: Is Godku a thing any more

Post by Mad Swami » Sat Feb 29, 2020 1:55 pm

Matches Malone wrote:
Sat Feb 29, 2020 1:50 pm
Mad Swami wrote:
Sat Feb 29, 2020 1:29 pm
when was it dropped also?
I think it was dropped when they decided to reintroduce the original 3 Ssj forms in the Champa arc. If their base was as strong as SsjG, what would be the point of using a weaker form like Ssj1 ?
again, just thought super's power scaling was crazy.

While I like this thought process I don't know why they wouldn't make any statements of it. Showings are hard based on motives and what not

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Re: Is Godku a thing any more

Post by Matches Malone » Sat Feb 29, 2020 2:03 pm

Mad Swami wrote:
Sat Feb 29, 2020 1:55 pm
While I like this thought process I don't know why they wouldn't make any statements of it.
I noticed they're very vague when it comes to these things. Look at Trunks' Ssj "Rage", we know nothing about it.

What is it exactly ? How strong is it ? How did he reach it ? Could anyone else reach it ?

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Re: Is Godku a thing any more

Post by Mad Swami » Sat Feb 29, 2020 2:11 pm

Matches Malone wrote:
Sat Feb 29, 2020 2:03 pm
Mad Swami wrote:
Sat Feb 29, 2020 1:55 pm
While I like this thought process I don't know why they wouldn't make any statements of it.
I noticed they're very vague when it comes to these things. Look at Trunks' Ssj "Rage", we know nothing about it.

What is it exactly ? How strong is it ? How did he reach it ? Could anyone else reach it ?
Yeah. Super for me is littered with a lot of problems but i'll be the first to say they are showing improvement with the likes of the Moro arc and Broly movie. However the power scaling is lost on most of us I feel. Hope in future stuff is shown better.

In fairness though the Manga I found doesn't seem to have this issue as they don't show Goku's base being anywhere near god it seems

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Re: Is Godku a thing any more

Post by It_Is_Ayna_You_Flips » Sat Feb 29, 2020 2:15 pm

Matches Malone wrote:
Sat Feb 29, 2020 2:03 pm
Mad Swami wrote:
Sat Feb 29, 2020 1:55 pm
While I like this thought process I don't know why they wouldn't make any statements of it.
I noticed they're very vague when it comes to these things. Look at Trunks' Ssj "Rage", we know nothing about it.

What is it exactly ? How strong is it ? How did he reach it ? Could anyone else reach it ?
They kinda need to keep it vague. There's a lot of characters they need to "protect" (to borrow a pro wrestling term) so how each transformation/power-up relates to the others needs to be kept indefinitive. Storywise it makes it possible for them to credibly bring back other characters to act as challenges or support against BBEGs. And because they're vague on which Saiyan form is better, it makes it easier to market merchandise to the fandom.
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Re: Is Godku a thing any more

Post by Matches Malone » Sat Feb 29, 2020 3:02 pm

Mad Swami wrote:
Sat Feb 29, 2020 2:11 pm
Super for me is littered with a lot of problems but i'll be the first to say they are showing improvement with the likes of the Moro arc and Broly movie.

However the power scaling is lost on most of us I feel. Hope in future stuff is shown better.
Great improvement. Broly's production is leaps and bounds above anything e franchise has seen while Moro is the most original thing we've gotten since BOG. Super will have a very bright future if they can mix both these elements into one.

I think we might get some clarification once they start releasing guide books for the show.

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Re: Is Godku a thing any more

Post by Mad Swami » Sat Feb 29, 2020 3:23 pm

Matches Malone wrote:
Sat Feb 29, 2020 3:02 pm
Mad Swami wrote:
Sat Feb 29, 2020 2:11 pm
Super for me is littered with a lot of problems but i'll be the first to say they are showing improvement with the likes of the Moro arc and Broly movie.

However the power scaling is lost on most of us I feel. Hope in future stuff is shown better.
Great improvement. Broly's production is leaps and bounds above anything e franchise has seen while Moro is the most original thing we've gotten since BOG. Super will have a very bright future if they can mix both these elements into one.

I think we might get some clarification once they start releasing guide books for the show.
here's hoping

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Re: Is Godku a thing any more

Post by SSJgogeto » Sat Feb 29, 2020 3:40 pm

I wrote this in another topic:
SSJgogeto wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:41 am
1 - First we have, of course, Super Saiyan God.
2 - As we saw, in the middle of the fight Goku lost the transformation and reverted to an ordinary Super Saiyan. However, he apparently had the same strength from before ("I don't feel weaker"), and curiously didn't use SS2 or 3. My explanation: Goku wasn't just an ordinary Super Saiyan at that time, instead he unconsciously achieved a new SS form. I call this form Godly Super Saiyan, because the name "Chou Super Saiyan with godly ki without complete control" isn't really good :lol:.
3 - After the fight, Goku have this Godly Super Saiyan and also the Godly Base Form, which is the famous "superpowered base form". He's really powerful, but he needs to use Super Saiyan to access all the godly power from before, because he don't have full control yet. Also, that's why he can't use SS Blue.
4 - After some time, he and Vegeta trained with Whis. After the train, he not only have a much better control of his godly ki but also he don't need to use SS to access it. That's the form known as Saiyan Beyond God. And more, now he can access a even more powerful form, the Super Saiyan Blue.
5 - But the "Beyond God" is just a step, not the definitive form, so he continued to train and after some time he achieved again the SS God. However, the transformation isn't exactly the same as before: if you look carefully, you'll see that some details changed, like the clothes.
The underlined part is my answer about 'Godku'.

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Re: Is Godku a thing any more

Post by emperior » Sat Feb 29, 2020 3:46 pm

Mad Swami wrote:
Sat Feb 29, 2020 1:27 pm
emperior wrote:
Sat Feb 29, 2020 10:59 am
He’s not. But it seems like his base form is still a lot stronger than he was at the beginning of Super and his transformations don’t provide huge boosts as one would expect. For example Super Saiyan surely doesn’t seem like a 50x power-up as it was on Namek (and hasn’t felt like it for a long time).
Or else Goku would have never been able to do anything in his base against Broly.

So, for me, it feels like standard Super Saiyan is a 5x boost, God is a 10 or 20x boost and Blue is a 50x boost.
What about SSJ2 amd SSJ3?
I don’t really know, I was writing with Broly’s movie in mind.
But it’s not like those forms ever seemed that much better than normal Super Saiyan in Super.
I would say SS2 is 10x, SS3 is 15x and then God is 20x or 25x. But it could also be that SS1 is a 2x boost, SS2 is 5x and SS3 is 10x.

Basically the point is that, in my opinion, especially nowadays, Dragon Ball’s powerscaling works on “Tiers” of power. So each form of Goku and Vegeta is a different tier of power, with no set amount of power boost. Which is similar to how things worked before Power Levels were introduced, and how they always worked.

To make an example, let’s say that 23rd Budokai Tenkaichi Goku w/o weights is Super Saiyan Blue.
Current base Goku would be Goku when he beat Piccolo Daimao. Super Saiyan would be Tenshinan in the 23rd Budokai Tenkaichi, while Super Saiyan God would be 23rd BT Goku with his weighted clothes on.
Of course assuming that Tenshinan was stronger than the Goku who beat Piccolo Daimao but weaker than (serious) Goku with his weighted clothes on.
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Re: Is Godku a thing any more

Post by Baggie_Saiyan » Tue Mar 03, 2020 2:25 pm

Matches Malone wrote:
Sat Feb 29, 2020 3:02 pm
Mad Swami wrote:
Sat Feb 29, 2020 2:11 pm
Super for me is littered with a lot of problems but i'll be the first to say they are showing improvement with the likes of the Moro arc and Broly movie.

However the power scaling is lost on most of us I feel. Hope in future stuff is shown better.
Great improvement. Broly's production is leaps and bounds above anything e franchise has seen while Moro is the most original thing we've gotten since BOG. Super will have a very bright future if they can mix both these elements into one.

I think we might get some clarification once they start releasing guide books for the show.
Moro arc original? BoG original...? :lol: Thanks for the laugh.

Both may have introduced some elements that maybe considered original to DB but the bottom line is story telling for both is far from original for DB. Don't be distracted and fall for a shiny coat of paint that tries to cover the same fundamental problems DB suffers from in regards to it's storytelling.

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Re: Is Godku a thing any more

Post by Matches Malone » Tue Mar 03, 2020 2:55 pm

Baggie_Saiyan wrote:
Tue Mar 03, 2020 2:25 pm
Moro arc original? BoG original...? :lol: Thanks for the laugh.

Both may have introduced some elements that maybe considered original to DB but the bottom line is story telling for both is far from original for DB. Don't be distracted and fall for a shiny coat of paint that tries to cover the same fundamental problems DB suffers from in regards to it's storytelling.
Original in the sense of not just bringing back some old concept like Freeza, Broly, or a tournament.

What's not original about BOG ? We've got a villain unlike any before him and an ending equally original with Goku giving up. I know the hand holding thing and giving energy are similar to GT and Broly's first movie but that shouldn't take away from the above.

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Re: Is Godku a thing any more

Post by ChronoTwigger » Sun Mar 08, 2020 1:33 pm

Matches Malone wrote:
Tue Mar 03, 2020 2:55 pm
Original in the sense of not just bringing back some old concept like Freeza, Broly, or a tournament.
Moro arc is Frieza arcs summed up. Sometime by words.
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Re: Is Godku a thing any more

Post by Hugo Boss » Sun Mar 08, 2020 11:29 pm

emperior wrote:
Sat Feb 29, 2020 10:59 am
He’s not. But it seems like his base form is still a lot stronger than he was at the beginning of Super and his transformations don’t provide huge boosts as one would expect. For example Super Saiyan surely doesn’t seem like a 50x power-up as it was on Namek (and hasn’t felt like it for a long time).
Or else Goku would have never been able to do anything in his base against Broly.

So, for me, it feels like standard Super Saiyan is a 5x boost, God is a 10 or 20x boost and Blue is a 50x boost.
I think I can agree with this. After all, the point of their training with Whis was to power-up their base and by consequence shorten the gap between Super Saiyan and Super Saiyan God, allowing them to go beyond. If I were to guess, I would dare say Super Saiyan Blue Goku’s boost rivals Great Ape humanoid Broli’s.

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