The villain who killed Jiren's Master

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Peach
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The villain who killed Jiren's Master

Post by Peach » Sun Apr 05, 2020 3:21 pm

Couldn't help but notice that this character was silhouetted when they showed us Jiren's past. Just like when Trunks first spoke about the Androids or Goku Black before we got a good look at him.

Could you see a saga centered around this character happening in the future?

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Re: The villain who killed Jiren's Master

Post by DragonBallFoodie » Sun Apr 05, 2020 3:32 pm

I wouldn't be surprised if Jiren had already tracked down that villain and take care of him, lethally or otherwise.

The arc proposed is worthy of a spinoff but I don't know if it could be a future saga.
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Re: The villain who killed Jiren's Master

Post by SupremeKai25 » Sun Apr 05, 2020 3:47 pm

I have read on Dragon Ball wiki that it was a demon who killed Jiren's parents, but I couldn't find any source. If it's really a demon, then it could easily be written as a powerful and malevolent entity and definitely a future villain (not sure if it's enough to carry an entire arc though). Is it just the wiki making shit up?

Also it's funny you mentioned Goku Black, because back in the day I read a lot of theories about Black being the killer due to them having the same dark aura and red eyes. Don't ask me how that's possible. The power of imagination, I guess.
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Re: The villain who killed Jiren's Master

Post by VegettoEX » Sun Apr 05, 2020 5:22 pm

SupremeKai25 wrote:
Sun Apr 05, 2020 3:47 pm
I have read on Dragon Ball wiki that it was a demon who killed Jiren's parents, but I couldn't find any source. If it's really a demon, then it could easily be written as a powerful and malevolent entity and definitely a future villain (not sure if it's enough to carry an entire arc though). Is it just the wiki making shit up?
This comes from Dragon Ball Super episode 127's exposition from Vermoud around the 15-minute mark, where he says:

ジレンはある悪党に両親を殺されたんだ。

The key word in question is 悪党 (akutō), which everywhere I see is just standard "villain" (bad guy, scoundrel, etc.). Toei's official simulcast subtitles translated this as, "Jiren's parents were killed by an evil-doer."

Image

A couple lines later, Vermoud says that Jiren gained a master and companions, and then said person returned again:

そこに再びやつはやって来た。

... where the word in question is a basic ol' やつ (yatsu) (him, that guy, the person referenced earlier).

Then over in the manga, Jiren says in chapter 41:

オレの願いは... 魔物殺されてしまった我が師匠キッチン様の復活だ

In Viz's English translation, they went with: "I will wish... for the resurrection of my master Gicchin, who was slain by a monster."

Image

I don't have the necessary language skills to break down why you'd go with "monster" vs. "demon" and quite how literal that's intended to be taken (for example, in English you fairly regularly see killers referred to as "monsters" due to their atrocities), so I'd love some input there.

If only there were a place that cited all this... 8)
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Re: The villain who killed Jiren's Master

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Sun Apr 05, 2020 7:18 pm

I heard that someone killed by a demon can't be resurrected by normal means, so that's why he required the Super Dragonballs to resurrect him. Is there any truth to this?
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Re: The villain who killed Jiren's Master

Post by Koitsukai » Sun Apr 05, 2020 11:32 pm

DragonBallFoodie wrote:
Sun Apr 05, 2020 3:32 pm
I wouldn't be surprised if Jiren had already tracked down that villain and take care of him, lethally or otherwise.

The arc proposed is worthy of a spinoff but I don't know if it could be a future saga.
This. Jiren being already stronger than the hakaishin ruling his universe(and befriending him) leaves little to no room to assume that the perpetrator is still at large somewhere. I don't think it would make sense to team up Jiren and Goku to track this guy down and fight him, so I only see it working as a prequel spinoff, showing Jiren's path towards absolute power with that guy as his Freeza.

Also, Belmod and Gicchin used to be friends, perhaps Jiren never got a chance to fight that guy and revenge was exclusively Belmod's.

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Re: The villain who killed Jiren's Master

Post by SupremeKai25 » Mon Apr 06, 2020 2:32 am

VegettoEX wrote:
Sun Apr 05, 2020 5:22 pm
SupremeKai25 wrote:
Sun Apr 05, 2020 3:47 pm
I have read on Dragon Ball wiki that it was a demon who killed Jiren's parents, but I couldn't find any source. If it's really a demon, then it could easily be written as a powerful and malevolent entity and definitely a future villain (not sure if it's enough to carry an entire arc though). Is it just the wiki making shit up?
This comes from Dragon Ball Super episode 127's exposition from Vermoud around the 15-minute mark, where he says:

ジレンはある悪党に両親を殺されたんだ。

The key word in question is 悪党 (akutō), which everywhere I see is just standard "villain" (bad guy, scoundrel, etc.). Toei's official simulcast subtitles translated this as, "Jiren's parents were killed by an evil-doer."

Image

A couple lines later, Vermoud says that Jiren gained a master and companions, and then said person returned again:

そこに再びやつはやって来た。

... where the word in question is a basic ol' やつ (yatsu) (him, that guy, the person referenced earlier).

Then over in the manga, Jiren says in chapter 41:

オレの願いは... 魔物殺されてしまった我が師匠キッチン様の復活だ

In Viz's English translation, they went with: "I will wish... for the resurrection of my master Gicchin, who was slain by a monster."

Image

I don't have the necessary language skills to break down why you'd go with "monster" vs. "demon" and quite how literal that's intended to be taken (for example, in English you fairly regularly see killers referred to as "monsters" due to their atrocities), so I'd love some input there.

If only there were a place that cited all this... 8)
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Re: The villain who killed Jiren's Master

Post by theherodjl » Mon Apr 06, 2020 3:45 am

Polyphase Avatron wrote:
Sun Apr 05, 2020 7:18 pm
I heard that someone killed by a demon can't be resurrected by normal means, so that's why he required the Super Dragonballs to resurrect him. Is there any truth to this?
Wasn't that attributed to Daimao and his offspring? IIRC, there was nothing stating that people couldn't be revived if it was Daimao's clan that killed them, just that they couldn't move onto the afterlife. Its also worth noting that A different demon like Dabra killed Kibito yet Kibito was revived by the normal DBs.
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Re: The villain who killed Jiren's Master

Post by emperior » Mon Apr 06, 2020 7:45 am

VegettoEX wrote:
Sun Apr 05, 2020 5:22 pm
SupremeKai25 wrote:
Sun Apr 05, 2020 3:47 pm
I have read on Dragon Ball wiki that it was a demon who killed Jiren's parents, but I couldn't find any source. If it's really a demon, then it could easily be written as a powerful and malevolent entity and definitely a future villain (not sure if it's enough to carry an entire arc though). Is it just the wiki making shit up?
This comes from Dragon Ball Super episode 127's exposition from Vermoud around the 15-minute mark, where he says:

ジレンはある悪党に両親を殺されたんだ。

The key word in question is 悪党 (akutō), which everywhere I see is just standard "villain" (bad guy, scoundrel, etc.). Toei's official simulcast subtitles translated this as, "Jiren's parents were killed by an evil-doer."

Image

A couple lines later, Vermoud says that Jiren gained a master and companions, and then said person returned again:

そこに再びやつはやって来た。

... where the word in question is a basic ol' やつ (yatsu) (him, that guy, the person referenced earlier).

Then over in the manga, Jiren says in chapter 41:

オレの願いは... 魔物殺されてしまった我が師匠キッチン様の復活だ

In Viz's English translation, they went with: "I will wish... for the resurrection of my master Gicchin, who was slain by a monster."

Image

I don't have the necessary language skills to break down why you'd go with "monster" vs. "demon" and quite how literal that's intended to be taken (for example, in English you fairly regularly see killers referred to as "monsters" due to their atrocities), so I'd love some input there.

If only there were a place that cited all this... 8)
You forgot that in the manga Marcarita says that Angels can’t revive those killed by a Demon, and they are clearly talking about Gicchin’s killler. And later we see Whis is able to revive Freeza.
So it seems like they are a category of people, and for some reason the powers of Angels are ineffective on those killed by these demons while the Super DBs don’t have that limit.
Unless that was a mistranslation from Viz?
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Re: The villain who killed Jiren's Master

Post by ankokudaishogun » Mon Apr 06, 2020 8:51 am

Given the MASSIVE difference in Jiren's backstory(they are basically two different people!), I would be hesitant at thinking their master was the same and killed by the same enemy.

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Re: The villain who killed Jiren's Master

Post by VegettoEX » Mon Apr 06, 2020 10:56 am

emperior wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 7:45 am
You forgot that in the manga Marcarita says that Angels can’t revive those killed by a Demon, and they are clearly talking about Gicchin’s killler. And later we see Whis is able to revive Freeza.
So it seems like they are a category of people, and for some reason the powers of Angels are ineffective on those killed by these demons while the Super DBs don’t have that limit.
Unless that was a mistranslation from Viz?
Ah, thanks. Yep - this comes from the next chapter (42), where she says:

魔物に殺された者は我々の力でも生き返すにとはできないですからね

Same 魔物 (mamono) as the previous chapter. Viz indeed translated this as: "And those killed by demons can't be revived by our power, of course." (Vermoud is talking about Gitchen in the previous panel, and how he's dead now.)
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