Could All Of The ToP Contestants Take On The Hakaishin?

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Could All Of The ToP Contestants Take On The Hakaishin?

Post by theherodjl » Sat May 02, 2020 8:59 am

Imagine that the Zeno Twins got bored and decided to bring the 80 fighters back together for another ToP but pitted them against the 12 Hakaishin this time. Under the ToP rules, could the fighters(everyone in their strongest forms, using their best strategies, and including fusions like Kefla & Anilaza) be able to defeat the Hakaishin? Or would the Hakaishin still prove triumphant in an elimination bout?
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Re: Could All Of The ToP Contestants Take On The Hakaishin?

Post by Jack Bz » Sat May 02, 2020 9:10 am

I think basically everyone would be complete fodder to a GoD besides Jiren and Goku, and maybe Vegeta if this is with post-yardrat training. Maybe everyone together could take out 2 or possibly 3.

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Re: Could All Of The ToP Contestants Take On The Hakaishin?

Post by SupremeKai25 » Sat May 02, 2020 9:29 am

Anyone besides Goku, Jiren, Toppo, Kefla, and maybe Vegeta won't even get near them.
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Re: Could All Of The ToP Contestants Take On The Hakaishin?

Post by theherodjl » Sat May 02, 2020 9:49 am

SupremeKai25 wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 9:29 am
Anyone besides Goku, Jiren, Toppo, Kefla, and maybe Vegeta won't even get near them.
That's why strategy is allowed, so that the fighters at least have the chance to surprise a Hakaishin with a potential ringout. It gives the fighters a shot since even Hakaishin don't aways see surprise attacks coming.
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Re: Could All Of The ToP Contestants Take On The Hakaishin?

Post by SupremeKai25 » Sat May 02, 2020 10:04 am

theherodjl wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 9:49 am
SupremeKai25 wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 9:29 am
Anyone besides Goku, Jiren, Toppo, Kefla, and maybe Vegeta won't even get near them.
That's why strategy is allowed, so that the fighters at least have the chance to surprise a Hakaishin with a potential ringout. It gives the fighters a shot since even Hakaishin don't aways see surprise attacks coming.
They can strategize all they want, they are so fodder that they won't even move them.

They wouldn't be able to surprise them anyway, because Destroyers are millions and millions of years old, they are much more experienced than mortals in battle.
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Re: Could All Of The ToP Contestants Take On The Hakaishin?

Post by Matches Malone » Sat May 02, 2020 10:14 am

Out of the 80 fighters, only 4 would have a chance, and against 4 at best. Goku could take 1, Jiren could take 1, Vegeta and Toopo could take one of the weaker ones each. That leaves 8 who can easily wipe out the remaining 76 fighters.

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Re: Could All Of The ToP Contestants Take On The Hakaishin?

Post by theherodjl » Sat May 02, 2020 10:29 am

SupremeKai25 wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 10:04 am
They can strategize all they want, they are so fodder that they won't even move them.

They wouldn't be able to surprise them anyway, because Destroyers are millions and millions of years old, they are much more experienced than mortals in battle.
Post Boo arc Vegeta in his rage state moved Beerus. Although Vegeta dealt no damage, he at least moved Beerus. If you got a whole horde of fighters that are far stronger than that Vegeta working in conjunction, moving a Hakaishin should be simple enough.
Its also worth noting that Liquir in the manga barely blocked a surprise arrow shot by Heles. The ToP fighters ought to do a lot better than a simple arrow.

The Hakaishin are far older & more experienced in combat that the ToP fighters...but they're also cocky and underestimate beings beneath them. They don't seem too high on teamwork themselves since they turned on each other pretty quickly in the Hakaishin tournament. I can't expect that they'd band together with such efficiency like the remaining U7 fighters did to Jiren.
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Re: Could All Of The ToP Contestants Take On The Hakaishin?

Post by Peach » Sat May 02, 2020 11:30 am

Maybe?

If we're going by the comics, they're all weaker than Beerus. Guess it depends by how much.

Sidra's power couldn't destroy Frieza. And the dude seemed afraid of him over video chat.


I'm sure Goku and Jiren together could take down at least two of them. Then there's aniraza, who's fucking insane. And Frieza, Vegeta, Top/Toppo, and 17 could at least take down Sidra if he's comparable, if not weaker.

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Re: Could All Of The ToP Contestants Take On The Hakaishin?

Post by Lionel » Sat May 02, 2020 11:42 am

Of course conventional tactics won't work here. Everyone sans Jiren, MUI Goku, SSJBE Vegeta, Hakaishin Toppo, and Kefla are scores of dimensions unprepared for this type of battle.

Now if they were to drop the "big stick" mentality and take advantage of unorthodox abilities then they may have a chance. Hit with his Shunken Ensatsu coordinated with a disorientating Taiyoken, threeway Mafubas between Roshi/Tenshinhan/Piccolo, hypnosis, and other such tactical manoeuvres might allow them to incapacitate at least four of their opponents. Jimizu could rely on ki projectiles as a homing beacon to clasp onto an Hakaishin and then mutually eliminate them by teleporting to the depths of the void.

Technical optimisation and element of surprise attacks by the likes of Gamisalas aside, I don't see much of what the contestants could do here. The heavy hitters probably can't handle five or more of the Hakaishin by themselves.

Edit: I'm thinking of the anime, just to clarify.

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Re: Could All Of The ToP Contestants Take On The Hakaishin?

Post by Peach » Sat May 02, 2020 12:12 pm

I just realized something. Whis said Goku and Vegeta could give Beerus a run for his money if they worked together.

...7 of the Destroyers working together couldn't touch Beerus.

Maybe a lot of them really are weak.

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Re: Could All Of The ToP Contestants Take On The Hakaishin?

Post by emperior » Sat May 02, 2020 1:42 pm

Peach wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 12:12 pm
I just realized something. Whis said Goku and Vegeta could give Beerus a run for his money if they worked together.

...7 of the Destroyers working together couldn't touch Beerus.

Maybe a lot of them really are weak.
It’s possible, yeah. Especially considering how later in the same arc Goku and Vegeta fare extremely well against Jiren when cooperating, and they are in their normal state.
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Re: Could All Of The ToP Contestants Take On The Hakaishin?

Post by SupremeKai25 » Sat May 02, 2020 4:07 pm

You guys are lowballing Destroyers so much. They could literally hakai basically anyone in there. Toppo was just an apprentice Destroyer and he could already make very deadly hakai balls. If Destroyers have intent of killing, they easily wipe out like 95% of the fighters instantly.
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Re: Could All Of The ToP Contestants Take On The Hakaishin?

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Sat May 02, 2020 5:06 pm

SupremeKai25 wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 4:07 pm
You guys are lowballing Destroyers so much. They could literally hakai basically anyone in there. Toppo was just an apprentice Destroyer and he could already make very deadly hakai balls. If Destroyers have intent of killing, they easily wipe out like 95% of the fighters instantly.
If this is like the ToP, that wouldn't be allowed.
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Re: Could All Of The ToP Contestants Take On The Hakaishin?

Post by SupremeKai25 » Sat May 02, 2020 5:48 pm

Polyphase Avatron wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 5:06 pm
SupremeKai25 wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 4:07 pm
You guys are lowballing Destroyers so much. They could literally hakai basically anyone in there. Toppo was just an apprentice Destroyer and he could already make very deadly hakai balls. If Destroyers have intent of killing, they easily wipe out like 95% of the fighters instantly.
If this is like the ToP, that wouldn't be allowed.
Yeah exactly, their best chance of victory is if the Destroyers cant keep their powers under control and end up killing someone. But they are very ancient and experienced beings, so I doubt they'd fall for such an obvious mistake.
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Re: Could All Of The ToP Contestants Take On The Hakaishin?

Post by Peach » Sat May 02, 2020 6:04 pm

SupremeKai25 wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 4:07 pm
You guys are lowballing Destroyers so much. They could literally hakai basically anyone in there. Toppo was just an apprentice Destroyer and he could already make very deadly hakai balls. If Destroyers have intent of killing, they easily wipe out like 95% of the fighters instantly.
Top/Toppo was an apprentice destroyer ....yet he managed to make a much stronger hakai than Sidra.

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Re: Could All Of The ToP Contestants Take On The Hakaishin?

Post by SupremeKai25 » Sat May 02, 2020 6:38 pm

Peach wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 6:04 pm
SupremeKai25 wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 4:07 pm
You guys are lowballing Destroyers so much. They could literally hakai basically anyone in there. Toppo was just an apprentice Destroyer and he could already make very deadly hakai balls. If Destroyers have intent of killing, they easily wipe out like 95% of the fighters instantly.
Top/Toppo was an apprentice destroyer ....yet he managed to make a much stronger hakai than Sidra.
That's why Toppo is one of the few characters who could do something, although he clearly isn't as proficient in using hakai energy as the official Destroyers. Besides Sidra is the exception, he isn't particularily strong as a Destroyer but the other 11 could easily make up for his lacking power (and even so he could defeat the majority of fodder in the ToP).
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Re: Could All Of The ToP Contestants Take On The Hakaishin?

Post by Peach » Sat May 02, 2020 7:02 pm

SupremeKai25 wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 6:38 pm
Peach wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 6:04 pm
SupremeKai25 wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 4:07 pm
You guys are lowballing Destroyers so much. They could literally hakai basically anyone in there. Toppo was just an apprentice Destroyer and he could already make very deadly hakai balls. If Destroyers have intent of killing, they easily wipe out like 95% of the fighters instantly.
Top/Toppo was an apprentice destroyer ....yet he managed to make a much stronger hakai than Sidra.
That's why Toppo is one of the few characters who could do something, although he clearly isn't as proficient in using hakai energy as the official Destroyers. Besides Sidra is the exception, he isn't particularily strong as a Destroyer but the other 11 could easily make up for his lacking power (and even so he could defeat the majority of fodder in the ToP).
Are you sure he's the exception? The manga showed all the destroyers getting humiliated from Beerus on his own.

When you think about it, Goku and Vegeta (and later with 17) did much better against Jiren than all those destroyers trying to defeat Beerus.

Seems the heavy hitters are Beerus and Belmond - the latter beat Beerus in arm wrestling and may have been faked his defeat. They may have high command of hakai, but that doesn't mean they have ultra instinct or are strong enough to beat everyone.

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Re: Could All Of The ToP Contestants Take On The Hakaishin?

Post by SupremeKai25 » Sat May 02, 2020 7:17 pm

Peach wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 7:02 pm
SupremeKai25 wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 6:38 pm
Peach wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 6:04 pm

Top/Toppo was an apprentice destroyer ....yet he managed to make a much stronger hakai than Sidra.
That's why Toppo is one of the few characters who could do something, although he clearly isn't as proficient in using hakai energy as the official Destroyers. Besides Sidra is the exception, he isn't particularily strong as a Destroyer but the other 11 could easily make up for his lacking power (and even so he could defeat the majority of fodder in the ToP).
Are you sure he's the exception? The manga showed all the destroyers getting humiliated from Beerus on his own.

When you think about it, Goku and Vegeta (and later with 17) did much better against Jiren than all those destroyers trying to defeat Beerus.

Seems the heavy hitters are Beerus and Belmond - the latter beat Beerus in arm wrestling and may have been faked his defeat. They may have high command of hakai, but that doesn't mean they have ultra instinct or are strong enough to beat everyone.
I admit I do not know the powerscaling of that arc in the manga so I am only talking about anime continuity here. For what is worth it, in the anime the 3 Destroyers who fought before the ToP started were evenly matched, so there might not be that big of a difference between them.

Regardless, it is 12 Destroyers. Who can get rid of the fodder very fast. You cannot really win by strategy when you are fighting an opponent who is way out of your league, so ultimately this comes down to those few characters who are GoD tier against the 12 Destroyers.

As a side note, in the manga Sidra was able to use shields or something like that, right? So he seems to have some defensive capabilities that could be useful.
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Re: Could All Of The ToP Contestants Take On The Hakaishin?

Post by Tai Lung » Sat May 02, 2020 7:55 pm

Goku UI, Jiren, Vegeta SSBE and Kefla are the only 4 who beat a Hakaishin

Toppo God is at the level of a Hakaishin

I think they could beat the individual tournament of gods against mortals ... all gods together vs mortals
well mortals would loses

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Re: Could All Of The ToP Contestants Take On The Hakaishin?

Post by theherodjl » Sat May 02, 2020 10:43 pm

SupremeKai25 wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 5:48 pm
Yeah exactly, their best chance of victory is if the Destroyers cant keep their powers under control and end up killing someone. But they are very ancient and experienced beings, so I doubt they'd fall for such an obvious mistake.
You know, now that I think about it, the Hakaishin's demonstration of their experience thus far hasn't been particularly amazing as far as being considered the best fighters of the universes.
When Beerus fought Goku back in BOG, he obviously had the advantage in power & skill since Goku was just-then learning to tread among the power of Gods. Later on, once Vegeta faced off against Beerus after learning CSSJB, he did manage to land a hit despite Beerus being pretty confident that Vegeta wouldn't be able to touch him. Beerus looked incredibly annoyed that not only had the Saiyans caught up to him in a brief bout of skill, they were also not too far behind in raw power. Then in the pre-ToP battle of the Hakaishin, they all easily fell prey to each other's abilities and tactics despite them knowing all what each other can do and what they were willing to do to win. This shows to me that while the Hakaishin are above ordinary fighters in skill, they can let their cockiness regarding power & position cloud their minds in the heat of battle.
Chalk it up to the arrogance of divinity I guess.
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