The correct representation of the Saiyan race

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

Moderators: General Help, Kanzenshuu Staff

User avatar
Tai Lung
I'm, pretty, cozy, here...
Posts: 1877
Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:38 pm

The correct representation of the Saiyan race

Post by Tai Lung » Wed Jun 24, 2020 9:22 pm

As we already know the representation of the saiyans has changed over the years ... originating debates that have divided the fandom with different opinions about it but the point is ... is this a good thing or a bad thing?

Image

On the one hand we have the old representation the Saiyans are evil beings, they invade planets, they eat a lot, they love to fight to be stronger and they kill even for fun .. the vast majority are not intelligent and they lack affective ties or sense of camaraderie .. So much so that the original bardock ova the message was not to feel sorry for them but to demonstrate that the Saiyans were idiots and being a failure as a race their destiny was to disappear.
The only one that did not turn out that way was goku and vegeta changed quite a lot after many years but would this really be the right thing?

-Firstly I find it a bit curious how saiyans are so popular despite the fact that their representation is mostly negative in the original story ...

-This also seem quite illogical .. They are a superior race to others in power but they have many lack, the explain that vegeta and his father were the only ones smart enough to lead the planet, nappa is elite and we already know him ... Why Vegeta was really proud?

-Another inconsistency ... is that if the Saiyans were not social beings or established emotional ties, obviously they can have children, but if they do not have the slightest idea of how to raise children or babies, how did they progress as a race? In part this is explained because other aliens are taking care of them but ... then how did they do before they met Frieza, besides that they do not stay long since then they are sent to invade planets ... basically meaning if nobody cares for them they would die ...

-Bardock seems a little inconsistent too .. it is clear that he is a little smarter which is possible as in the case of the king vegeta but he seems to care too much about his comrades for someone .. who does not establish ties with others yet despises his children

it is clear that they could make the character so bad but also not good which makes him feel out of character sometimes

-------------
Currently I think that the representation of the Saiyans makes more sense
-There are Saiyans who are engaged in fighting
-There are Saiyans who are dedicated to cooking
-There are Saiyans who are dedicated to science
-There are good Saiyans who take care of their children although they are few

Its progress as a race is evident ... so the tragedy here exists since the race saiyan was abruptly annihilated when it was still prosperous and could continue to exist for many more years more ...
Vegeta's pride is more understandable his race was not only a warrior but he was also had evolved in other respects .. and not only was he surrounded by stupid

Finally .. I have to say that there is a lot of difference in how the characters more specifically goku changes their way of thinking about their own race ...

Before Super, many fans ... included me, we thought it would be great if goku was proud to be a saiyan too and that maybe one day he would meet other saiyans, he could fight and maybe make friends with some who were similar to him and really did not I think there is nothing wrong with this ...
but the truth ... is that originally goku hated the saiyans and probably meeting his brother resulted in the most disgusting moment of his life and he wanted nothing to do with them ... and to meet nappa and vegeta increased his hate and only in namek he accepted to be one but always making it clear that he was an earthling

but this has totally changed ... goku seems to consider himself more saiyan than ever .. he really wanted to relate to other saiyan like caulifla, kale and broly and he even used his name saiyan sincerely I think those moments were great I can understand that many hate DB minus but they were so angry they didn't realize that they improved a lot about the saiyan race in general

What do you think? :think:
Has the representation of the Saiyan as a race improved or worsened over time?
is it correct that goku is more a saiyan nowadays?

User avatar
Psajdak
Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
Posts: 496
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2020 7:37 am

Re: The correct representation of the Saiyan race

Post by Psajdak » Wed Jun 24, 2020 10:07 pm

The way I see it, the original point of Saiyans was pretty much that they are basically evil Gokus.

Since the very beginning, till the historical moment of Goku defeating Piccolo, and becoming the world champion, Goku was always shown to have a pure heart, together with great strength.

Now, I doubt Toriyama intended for Goku to be an alien from the start - most likely he just based him on Sun Wukong, and meant to leave it at that, without actually explaining his real origins.

The thing is though, that Piccolo, both old, and young, were shown as the ultimate enemies on Earth, and Goku beat the both of them...

What enemy would be logical after Piccolo?

How about another Goku?
But evil one?

The big part of Saiyan arc is that we find out that pure Goku originally wasn't so good, although Saiyan arc itself was probably based on Superman's origins.

Saiyan arc was finally Goku's arc.

Even introduction of Super Saiyans was originally used to show the contrast between Goku, and the rest of pure blooded Saiyans, when Vegeta failed to become one, no matter how much he tried on Namek, since he was still evil.

Matches Malone
Banned
Posts: 3308
Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2020 3:12 am

Re: The correct representation of the Saiyan race

Post by Matches Malone » Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:21 am

I have no issue with the powers at be exploring other aspect of Saiyan society, however, I completely hate how they've gone out of their way to not only change the overall image of Saiyans, but also Goku.

Goku's entire story, and his rivalry with Vegeta early on, was based on the fact that he was a low life who got thrown out like trash. Now though ? he was sent to earth by his loving parents to save his life, which makes his whole rivalry with the Saiayns early on completely pointless, as he was never thrown out to begin with. Then there's his father being the "legendary" Ssj all along, making Goku's accomplishments seem destined, not earned. Then there's his character, we've been told for 2.5 decades that he'd be no better than the others if it weren't for the slightest of luck, him hitting his head as a baby. Now though ? His mother's "good nature" most likely played a major role in it, just as it did with Bardock.

I will give them credit for one thing, they managed to completely destroy Goku's character in a 10-12 page chapter and a card game tie in. :clap: It takes real skill to destroy so much with so little.

Then there's the current image of Saiyans, which has gone from this:
To this:

I don't think I need to say what's wrong with these 2 images, as they clearly explain themselves.

Kataphrut
I'm, pretty, cozy, here...
Posts: 1704
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2017 8:12 pm

Re: The correct representation of the Saiyan race

Post by Kataphrut » Thu Jun 25, 2020 5:09 am

Matches Malone wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:21 am
Then there's the current image of Saiyans, which has gone from this:
To this:

I don't think I need to say what's wrong with these 2 images, as they clearly explain themselves.
That one is an actual scene from the manga and the other is fanart?

What point are you trying to make with that comparison there?

Matches Malone
Banned
Posts: 3308
Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2020 3:12 am

Re: The correct representation of the Saiyan race

Post by Matches Malone » Thu Jun 25, 2020 5:18 am

Kataphrut wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 5:09 amWhat point are you trying to make with that comparison there?
I don't know how it needs explaining, but back in the day Saiyans were strong looking warriors who destroyed everything in their path, while now they're peace loving stick figures.

User avatar
SupremeKai25
I Live Here
Posts: 4043
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:40 am

Re: The correct representation of the Saiyan race

Post by SupremeKai25 » Thu Jun 25, 2020 5:52 am

Matches Malone wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 5:18 am
Kataphrut wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 5:09 amWhat point are you trying to make with that comparison there?
I don't know how it needs explaining, but back in the day Saiyans were strong looking warriors who destroyed everything in their path, while now they're peace loving stick figures.
You know they are saiyans from an entirely different universe, right? And besides they are far from being pacifists or anything like that. Cabba is in charge of the Sadala army, which is basically the police force of U6. Caulifla and Kale are members of a violent gang that has often fought against other saiyans.

User avatar
LoganForkHands73
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1350
Joined: Wed Feb 12, 2020 8:54 pm

Re: The correct representation of the Saiyan race

Post by LoganForkHands73 » Thu Jun 25, 2020 6:54 am

Matches Malone wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 5:18 am
Kataphrut wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 5:09 amWhat point are you trying to make with that comparison there?
I don't know how it needs explaining, but back in the day Saiyans were strong looking warriors who destroyed everything in their path, while now they're peace loving stick figures.
I could probably find fanart of OG Broly barebacking Raditz, so that must be true as well.

Kataphrut
I'm, pretty, cozy, here...
Posts: 1704
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2017 8:12 pm

Re: The correct representation of the Saiyan race

Post by Kataphrut » Thu Jun 25, 2020 7:52 am

Matches Malone wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 5:18 am
Kataphrut wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 5:09 amWhat point are you trying to make with that comparison there?
I don't know how it needs explaining, but back in the day Saiyans were strong looking warriors who destroyed everything in their path, while now they're peace loving stick figures.
So there's this character called Goku. I don't know if you've heard of him...

Matches Malone
Banned
Posts: 3308
Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2020 3:12 am

Re: The correct representation of the Saiyan race

Post by Matches Malone » Thu Jun 25, 2020 10:11 am

Kataphrut wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 7:52 amSo there's this character called Goku. I don't know if you've heard of him...
This right here is proof you didn't bother reading my whole post, and instead just commented on the pictures.
LoganForkHands73 wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 6:54 amI could probably find fanart of OG Broly barebacking Raditz, so that must be true as well.
You couldn't miss the point any more if you tried. The pictures are used to show the difference between the Saiyans then (strong looking and violent) and now (weak looking and peaceful).

User avatar
Thani
OMG CRAZY REGEN
Posts: 870
Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2016 8:52 pm

Re: The correct representation of the Saiyan race

Post by Thani » Thu Jun 25, 2020 11:20 am

And the problem is... ?

User avatar
LoganForkHands73
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1350
Joined: Wed Feb 12, 2020 8:54 pm

Re: The correct representation of the Saiyan race

Post by LoganForkHands73 » Thu Jun 25, 2020 12:06 pm

Matches Malone wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 10:11 am
Kataphrut wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 7:52 amSo there's this character called Goku. I don't know if you've heard of him...
This right here is proof you didn't bother reading my whole post, and instead just commented on the pictures.
LoganForkHands73 wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 6:54 amI could probably find fanart of OG Broly barebacking Raditz, so that must be true as well.
You couldn't miss the point any more if you tried. The pictures are used to show the difference between the Saiyans then (strong looking and violent) and now (weak looking and peaceful).
I didn't. Because the second picture isn't even an official, and you're trying to compare it to a still from the anime. I was simply illustrating that I could grab any piece of fanart and pass it off as an example of "Ew, look how wrong this portrayal is".

True, I'll grant you that design-wise, the Universe 6 Saiyans look weaker. But they've never been presented as pacifistic or peaceful, their culture is still based on mercenary combat work. All the ones U6 Saiyans we have met so far, in terms of sheer power, would blow almost every vanilla Universe 7 Saiyan out of the water. They've never been portrayed as decadently chilling around a picnic blanket like you're making them out to be. They may be less hostile in temperament than U7 Saiyans, but it's pretty insincere to construe them in that extreme. And besides, the U6 Saiyans are clearly marked as being from a parallel universe. They've evolved differently from their U7 counterparts.

Anyway...

Addressing the thread, I welcome the modern, diverse presentation of our new overlords U7 Saiyans. It's such a tired trope for all members of an alien race to look and behave exactly the same way (i.e. "Planet of Hats" trope). Sure, there can be a broad consensus of what Saiyan culture is like which is how we are informed of them in their first appearances, but it's interesting to see that there are indeed Saiyan technicians, housewives, scientists, etc. that work behind the scenes to keep Planet Vegeta running. Even the most martial cultures in our history needed people to perform menial tasks, otherwise society would fall apart. I don't think it necessarily affects the Saiyans' overall ruthless, not-entirely-sympathetic image, but it would validate Frieza's reductive, racist worldview to see all Saiyans as bad - Goku of course acts as a great exception thanks to his Earth upbringing, but it doesn't hurt to show that there were some nicer Saiyans.

User avatar
emperior
I Live Here
Posts: 4322
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2015 1:52 pm
Location: Dragon World
Contact:

Re: The correct representation of the Saiyan race

Post by emperior » Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:56 pm

Goku was still sent to Earth as an infiltration baby, and he was still deemed a low class warrior destined to be sent away on a genocidal mission.
The fact he was sent away by his parents on the hunch Bardock had about Freeza doesn’t change the “low class vs elite” thematic of Goku’s first fight against Vegeta. And it doesn’t change the Saiyan arc in any way. Heck, even his “loving” parents shit on him, as Bardock commented he was very small, as he was a late grower, and repeatedly said how he was just saving the life of a meaningless low class born, clearly out of his hate for Freeza and not because of fatherly love.

That said, I fail to see how the modern depiction of U7 Saiyans is in any way radically different from before.
Paragus fits the perfect Saiyan stereotype and so does King Vegeta. Beets only gives more insight into the Saiyan’s society, and Gine is an exceptional case.

Saiyans keep being basically space Spartans.
悟 “Vincit qui se vincit”

What I consider canonical

User avatar
Tai Lung
I'm, pretty, cozy, here...
Posts: 1877
Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:38 pm

Re: The correct representation of the Saiyan race

Post by Tai Lung » Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:28 pm

Matches Malone wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:21 am I have no issue with the powers at be exploring other aspect of Saiyan society, however, I completely hate how they've gone out of their way to not only change the overall image of Saiyans, but also Goku.

Goku's entire story, and his rivalry with Vegeta early on, was based on the fact that he was a low life who got thrown out like trash. Now though ? he was sent to earth by his loving parents to save his life, which makes his whole rivalry with the Saiayns early on completely pointless, as he was never thrown out to begin with. [/spoiler]

I understand that it has its defects but also its advantages ....
Image
they were represented as imbeciles and a failure as a race, so destiny was extinction and these aspects also include elite warriors like nappa making it questionable ... the superiority of the elite to the lower class
Matches Malone wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:21 am Then there's his father being the "legendary" Ssj all along, making Goku's accomplishments seem destined, not earned.
Bardock's second ova is not canon for the current dragon ball ... it was made to promotion a game
Matches Malone wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:21 am Then there's his character, we've been told for 2.5 decades that he'd be no better than the others if it weren't for the slightest of luck, him hitting his head as a baby. Now though ? His mother's "good nature" most likely played a major role in it, just as it did with Bardock.
that "probably" doesn't make sense ... it's been made pretty clear that goodness and badness not are inherited ... raditz, trunks and broly are proof of that
Matches Malone wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:21 am Then there's the current image of Saiyans, which has gone from this:
To this:

I don't think I need to say what's wrong with these 2 images, as they clearly explain themselves.
are you comparing manga to a fanart?

-the saiyans of universe 6 had a different evolution to be compared in that way
-all female characters are small and slender including saiyans fasha / selypa
Image

that's the point ... and what I was talking about in my first post nobody is bad by nature is an unrealistic representation for a race whether warrior or not without education, technology or other means would have died out before frieza arrived

EGonzo
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 220
Joined: Fri Jan 26, 2018 12:36 am

Re: The correct representation of the Saiyan race

Post by EGonzo » Sat Jun 27, 2020 1:19 pm

Matches Malone wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:21 am I have no issue with the powers at be exploring other aspect of Saiyan society, however, I completely hate how they've gone out of their way to not only change the overall image of Saiyans, but also Goku.

Goku's entire story, and his rivalry with Vegeta early on, was based on the fact that he was a low life who got thrown out like trash. Now though ? he was sent to earth by his loving parents to save his life, which makes his whole rivalry with the Saiayns early on completely pointless, as he was never thrown out to begin with. Then there's his father being the "legendary" Ssj all along, making Goku's accomplishments seem destined, not earned. Then there's his character, we've been told for 2.5 decades that he'd be no better than the others if it weren't for the slightest of luck, him hitting his head as a baby. Now though ? His mother's "good nature" most likely played a major role in it, just as it did with Bardock.

I will give them credit for one thing, they managed to completely destroy Goku's character in a 10-12 page chapter and a card game tie in. :clap: It takes real skill to destroy so much with so little.

Then there's the current image of Saiyans, which has gone from this:
To this:

I don't think I need to say what's wrong with these 2 images, as they clearly explain themselves.
I don't think it's as bad as you think. Goku was sent to Earth specifically because he WAS trash, and there wouldn't be any strong people there to endanger their low-class son. Bardock going SSJ is straight up a non-canon spin-off. This last part might have some headcanon, but I still think it's accurate to say that, while Goku did "inherit" some of his niceness from his mom, he was still a violent maniac by Earth standards and that hit on the head mellowed him out even more.

DragonBallFoodie
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1371
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2016 5:12 pm
Location: Zambia, Southern Africa

Re: The correct representation of the Saiyan race

Post by DragonBallFoodie » Sat Jun 27, 2020 4:16 pm

The representation has evolved with time.

It was easy to class them all as amoral warriors when it was just Goku and Vegeta - and I think calling them amoral, as in not really adhering to any morals, fits them best.

But as we saw more of them and their culture history (significantly their enslavement by Frieza) they had to be a little more decent (capable of caring for each other at least) and tragic (due to their fate). The Saiyans could have had a Super Saiyan appear to free them, but that foretold figure arrived too late to save the world - or maybe that was destiny, as there can't be a planet of Super Saiyans (Toriyama and reality wouldn't handle it).

It may be enough to know that they were an enslaved and doomed race, who were annihilated and later avenged.
"Don't take pleasure in destruction!" / "I will not let you destroy my world!"
A true hero goes beyond not the limits of power, but the limits that divide countries and people.

Sadala Elite
Banned
Posts: 549
Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2020 2:27 pm

Re: The correct representation of the Saiyan race

Post by Sadala Elite » Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:08 pm

Tai Lung wrote: Wed Jun 24, 2020 9:22 pm Snip
There's way too many misconceptions in your post.

- 1st, The Saiyans in early Z portrayed as a successful race of space warriors long before they ever met Freeza. How the hell is thousands of years of successful galactic conquest "failure"? You arent making any sense.

- With the exception of Nappa, none of the full blood Saiyans in Z were portrayed as particularly stupid, especially when compared to other species. Hell, they were already living shown in a high-tech society before they met Freeza, so I don't know were you got that from either.

- Virtually nothing in Z ever suggested that the Saiyans were in any way "doomed" to extinction. In fact, everything pointed to the fact that if Freeza hadnt wiped them out, they would have probably conquered all of Universe 7. In fact, the main reason Freeza killed them was because he was scared of their potential.

- The 90s Bardock film portrays Bardock as an ordinary Saiyan and an tragic anti-hero who, despite being a cold blooded warrior, cared about his comrades and tried to prevent genocide of his race (and no, I'm not talking about the dub) and portrayed said genocide as a sad, tragic event (not a "good riddance" thing), contradicting what you said about the film.

Sadala Elite
Banned
Posts: 549
Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2020 2:27 pm

Re: The correct representation of the Saiyan race

Post by Sadala Elite » Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:12 pm

Matches Malone wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:21 am I have no issue with the powers at be exploring other aspect of Saiyan society, however, I completely hate how they've gone out of their way to not only change the overall image of Saiyans, but also Goku.

Goku's entire story, and his rivalry with Vegeta early on, was based on the fact that he was a low life who got thrown out like trash. Now though ? he was sent to earth by his loving parents to save his life, which makes his whole rivalry with the Saiayns early on completely pointless, as he was never thrown out to begin with. Then there's his father being the "legendary" Ssj all along, making Goku's accomplishments seem destined, not earned. Then there's his character, we've been told for 2.5 decades that he'd be no better than the others if it weren't for the slightest of luck, him hitting his head as a baby. Now though ? His mother's "good nature" most likely played a major role in it, just as it did with Bardock.

I will give them credit for one thing, they managed to completely destroy Goku's character in a 10-12 page chapter and a card game tie in. :clap: It takes real skill to destroy so much with so little.

Then there's the current image of Saiyans, which has gone from this:
To this:

I don't think I need to say what's wrong with these 2 images, as they clearly explain themselves.
The Universe 6 Saiyans were written to be intentionally different from the ones from Z due to different history/evolution. That wasnt Toriyama trying to retcon the nature of the Saiyans.

User avatar
Tai Lung
I'm, pretty, cozy, here...
Posts: 1877
Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:38 pm

Re: The correct representation of the Saiyan race

Post by Tai Lung » Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:47 am

Sadala Elite wrote: Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:08 pm
There's way too many misconceptions in your post.

- 1st, The Saiyans in early Z portrayed as a successful race of space warriors long before they ever met Freeza. How the hell is thousands of years of successful galactic conquest "failure"? You arent making any sense.
"survival of the fittest" they were not able to recognize the danger even though bardock warned them what they did was make fun of it ... and ignore everything else
Sadala Elite wrote: Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:08 pm - With the exception of Nappa, none of the full blood Saiyans in Z were portrayed as particularly stupid, especially when compared to other species. Hell, they were already living shown in a high-tech society before they met Freeza, so I don't know were you got that from either.
these guys represent the average Saiyan race .... they were idiots
Image

they are not able to take care of each other ... they do not form family ties ... (indispensable for survival) and they do not form friendship ties ... if someone does not serve them they are willing to kill each other between brothers (raditz) and they betray each other
that race is doomed to failure.
they did not create technology .. they stole it from the tsufurujin 2 very different things
Sadala Elite wrote: Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:08 pm - Virtually nothing in Z ever suggested that the Saiyans were in any way "doomed" to extinction. In fact, everything pointed to the fact that if Freeza hadnt wiped them out, they would have probably conquered all of Universe 7. In fact, the main reason Freeza killed them was because he was scared of their potential..
It was mainly because of Frieza's support that they went so far ... spaceships, a way of working and raising children.
it's likely that they would have killed each other being such an aggressive race ... really if it wasn't for the king vegeta they might have loses against the tsufurus
Sadala Elite wrote: Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:08 pm - The 90s Bardock film portrays Bardock as an ordinary Saiyan and an tragic anti-hero who, despite being a cold blooded warrior, cared about his comrades and tried to prevent genocide of his race (and no, I'm not talking about the dub) and portrayed said genocide as a sad, tragic event (not a "good riddance" thing), contradicting what you said about the film.
he despised his son for being weak ... but he and his comrades are low class ...
He cares about his comrades but not his son ... it makes no sense

they try to show bardock like someone great that's because they can't show him so evil creating inconsistencies

Sadala Elite
Banned
Posts: 549
Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2020 2:27 pm

Re: The correct representation of the Saiyan race

Post by Sadala Elite » Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:59 pm

Once again you are completely wrong lmao.
Tai Lung wrote: Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:47 am
Sadala Elite wrote: Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:08 pm
There's way too many misconceptions in your post.

- 1st, The Saiyans in early Z portrayed as a successful race of space warriors long before they ever met Freeza. How the hell is thousands of years of successful galactic conquest "failure"? You arent making any sense.
"survival of the fittest" they were not able to recognize the danger even though bardock warned them what they did was make fun of it ... and ignore everything else

They had little reason to ever believe Freeza would wipe them out in the 1st place due to how successful they were under him. You arent making any sense
Sadala Elite wrote: Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:08 pm - With the exception of Nappa, none of the full blood Saiyans in Z were portrayed as particularly stupid, especially when compared to other species. Hell, they were already living shown in a high-tech society before they met Freeza, so I don't know were you got that from either.
these guys represent the average Saiyan race .... they were idiots
Image

None of those characters were portrayed as stupid. As I stated above, they had little reason to believe Freeza would wipe them out.

they are not able to take care of each other ... they do not form family ties ... (indispensable for survival) and they do not form friendship ties ... if someone does not serve them they are willing to kill each other between brothers (raditz) and they betray each other
that race is doomed to failure.

Most wild animal species dont form any meaningful family ties either, yet they still thrive in nature. Many real life people don't either (Psychopaths, Narcissist, etc), yet they are often massicely successful in life. Your argument makes no sense.

they did not create technology .. they stole it from the tsufurujin 2 very different things

According to Toriyama himself and in all official guides, the Saiyan were already a technologically advanced people long before they ever met King Cold. They stealing from the Tuffles was just forgetton filler (even GT didn't state this)
Sadala Elite wrote: Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:08 pm - Virtually nothing in Z ever suggested that the Saiyans were in any way "doomed" to extinction. In fact, everything pointed to the fact that if Freeza hadnt wiped them out, they would have probably conquered all of Universe 7. In fact, the main reason Freeza killed them was because he was scared of their potential..
It was mainly because of Frieza's support that they went so far ... spaceships, a way of working and raising children.
it's likely that they would have killed each other being such an aggressive race ... really if it wasn't for the king vegeta they might have loses against the tsufurus

Wrong again. As I stated before, they were already a race of successful conquerors long before they ever met Freeza. This was stated and show in the series itself numerous times
Sadala Elite wrote: Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:08 pm - The 90s Bardock film portrays Bardock as an ordinary Saiyan and an tragic anti-hero who, despite being a cold blooded warrior, cared about his comrades and tried to prevent genocide of his race (and no, I'm not talking about the dub) and portrayed said genocide as a sad, tragic event (not a "good riddance" thing), contradicting what you said about the film.
he despised his son for being weak ... but he and his comrades are low class ...
He cares about his comrades but not his son ... it makes no sense

Where was he ever shown hating Goku?

they try to show bardock like someone great that's because they can't show him so evil creating inconsistencies
?

User avatar
Tai Lung
I'm, pretty, cozy, here...
Posts: 1877
Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:38 pm

Re: The correct representation of the Saiyan race

Post by Tai Lung » Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:04 pm

Sadala Elite wrote: Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:59 pm
They had little reason to ever believe Freeza would wipe them out in the 1st place due to how successful they were under him. You arent making any sense
Sadala Elite wrote: Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:08 pm
None of those characters were portrayed as stupid. As I stated above, they had little reason to believe Freeza would wipe them out.
they preferred to believe in frieza ... that in someone of their own race ... who was also quite wounded by a previous battle
given their great ego they did not think that frieza does not depend on them since he has an extensive army with which he can replace them...

the same bardock called them stupid ..
Sadala Elite wrote: Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:08 pm Most wild animal species dont form any meaningful family ties either, yet they still thrive in nature. Many real life people don't either (Psychopaths, Narcissist, etc), yet they are often massicely successful in life. Your argument makes no sense.]
mammals tyes they have them ... leave a cub of any species on its own and I assure you that it will not survive the week ..
so are you comparing saiyans with wild animals and the mentally ill? lol Your argument makes no sense. ... you're just showing me that they're not advanced
Sadala Elite wrote: Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:08 pm According to Toriyama himself and in all official guides, the Saiyan were already a technologically advanced people long before they ever met King Cold. They stealing from the Tuffles was just forgetton filler (even GT didn't state this)
prove it with facts in manga or anime because in the guides it was also said that the tsufurujin exist something that currently no longer exists ..
Sadala Elite wrote: Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:08 pm Where was he ever shown hating Goku?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7fqEnfcy2Q

Post Reply