I don’t see how SSJ Blue can have ANYTHING to do with SSJ God..

[GodVegetto91]

Yeah yeah, I know, the name is “Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan” But ignoring names and Toyotaro’s own statements for a moment.

The two forms have literally NOTHING in common, except for the fact that both of them use God Ki and have “Super Saiyan God” in their name.

If it truly was a legit “Super Saiyan” version of “Super Saiyan God”... Then it would be RED. Not Blue! That’s the biggest red flag for why the two can’t be related. Turning SSJ in SSJ God Mode shouldn’t magically make your color turn Blue.

Not to mention even bigger reasons...

The EYES! If it truly is a proper ascension of “Super Saiyan God” then the godly divine eyes would remain the same! They would remain LARGE, fully formed, both with pupils and irises, and RED!

This is perhaps the biggest one, you don’t revert your eyes back to your mortal self as in SSJ Blue! That one has mortal Goku’s SSJ1 eyes! Why would you gain Godly eyes in SSJ God Mode, and then the higher ascension of that supposed same ascended form degrade it back to mortal ones?! The fuck????!

Also, SSJ Blue just has Goku’s regular muscular body and skin tone and length.

Unlike SSJ God, which makes Goku skinnier (like a God), taller, a few inches, and darkens the skin tone! Tanner!

If so many of these things are not present in “Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan” (the SUPPOSED proper ascension of the God form!) then it can’t be a legit ascension of it.

Sorry Toyotaro, you may be able to fool others, but you ain’t fooling me.

Also, it was originally only meant to be achieved via a magic ritual involving 6 good hearted Saiyans.

I literally DO NOT, and CAN NOT, SEE.. “HOW” the two forms can EVER be related...

[Koitsukai]

Actually the blue after the red does make sense in a heat-ish sort of way. Like blue stars burning hotter than red stars. That colour progress always worked for me.

Keeping the distinctive eyes would've been better, I agree, but the bulkier physique of SSB isn't weird to me. After all, it is a multiplication of SSG's power, so if the power isn't leaking I guess it makes sense for it to bulk up the body.

What I never understood is what's so SS about SSG. Isn't it just Goku accessing god ki? The base form looking hair isn't helping my confusion either.

Also, why are you blaming Toyo? SSB wasn't changed in the manga. It remains the same in every media, except for the manga-only perfected form, but that would be talking about functionality and we are discussing designs.

[mute_proxy]

What you're saying sounds like this:

"SSBlue has nothing to do with SSGod, because I don't like how it's visually presented. If it had anything to do with SSGod, it would look like something I made up just now, and that's fact."

[GodVegetto91]

What you're saying sounds like this:

"SSBlue has nothing to do with SSGod, because I don't like how it's visually presented. If it had anything to do with SSGod, it would look like something I made up just now, and that's fact."

This is not how we speak to one another here on Kanzenshuu.

Stop trolling. And come with something legit other than ad hominem attacks. Try again.

[GodVegetto91]

Actually the blue after the red does make sense in a heat-ish sort of way. Like blue stars burning hotter than red stars. That colour progress always worked for me.

Keeping the distinctive eyes would've been better, I agree, but the bulkier physique of SSB isn't weird to me. After all, it is a multiplication of SSG's power, so if the power isn't leaking I guess it makes sense for it to bulk up the body.

What I never understood is what's so SS about SSG. Isn't it just Goku accessing god ki? The base form looking hair isn't helping my confusion either.

Also, why are you blaming Toyo? SSB wasn't changed in the manga. It remains the same in every media, except for the manga-only perfected form, but that would be talking about functionality and we are discussing designs.

The very simple key point that I’m trying to get across here, is that the two forms look much too different from one another to be or seem related. There’s just too many, “large” differences between the two for them to seem related. Not just the red color vs blue, but the body composition and eyes aswell.

[mute_proxy]

What you're saying sounds like this:

"SSBlue has nothing to do with SSGod, because I don't like how it's visually presented. If it had anything to do with SSGod, it would look like something I made up just now, and that's fact."

This is not how we speak to one another here on Kanzenshuu.

Stop trolling. And come with something legit other than ad hominem attacks. Try again.

No, it's a legit argument, you can't say something isn't true just because you don't like the way it's presented.

[Ziegander]

This is literally what you sound like:

"If the Super Saiyan form was truly a legit super form of saiyan, then the hair would be BLACK! Not blond?! That's the biggest red flag. Turning SSJ from normal saiyan shouldn't magically turn your hair blond.

Not to mention even bigger reasons (bigger than biggest, even)...

The EYES! If it is truly the proper ascension of the natural saiyan form, then the natural saiyan eyes would remain the same! They would remain cartoonishly LARGE, white, with black pupils and no irises!"

My dude, if turning SSJ changes your hair style, your hair color, and your eye color from base form, why would it NOT change your hair style, your hair color, and your eye color from God form?

Why do the eyes "revert" to a mortal form when "ascending" from God form to Blue? Well, that's just it, they aren't ascending from God form. They are both in God form and in SSJ form simultaneously. The increase in raw power comes from SSJ, which is a mortal ability. Super Saiyan Blue IS NOT Super Saiyan God 2, after all. Perhaps the eyes revert to their mortal form BECAUSE the saiyan is relying on mortal power to achieve the Super Saiyan Blue state.

[Koitsukai]

Actually the blue after the red does make sense in a heat-ish sort of way. Like blue stars burning hotter than red stars. That colour progress always worked for me.

Keeping the distinctive eyes would've been better, I agree, but the bulkier physique of SSB isn't weird to me. After all, it is a multiplication of SSG's power, so if the power isn't leaking I guess it makes sense for it to bulk up the body.

What I never understood is what's so SS about SSG. Isn't it just Goku accessing god ki? The base form looking hair isn't helping my confusion either.

Also, why are you blaming Toyo? SSB wasn't changed in the manga. It remains the same in every media, except for the manga-only perfected form, but that would be talking about functionality and we are discussing designs.

The very simple key point that I’m trying to get across here, is that the two forms look much too different from one another to be or seem related. There’s just too many, “large” differences between the two for them to seem related. Not just the red color vs blue, but the body composition and eyes aswell.

Yeah but the body changing isn't strange. Most power ups tend to bring more muscle, so multiplying SSG's power and ending up with a bulkier body is just logical or at least it is not an asspull or something out of the ordinary. It's not like SS grade III Trunks or Broly-like muscle. It's just a not-skinny-anymore figure. It's an enhancement of the SSG form, a SS on top of that power making a more muscular body doesn't sound weird to me.

The eyes don't make sense, sure, specially when SSBE, Sign and MUI brought the pupils back.

And the progress from red to blue can be explained too. Blue flames burn hotter, produce more energy than the red one due to higher frequency. It makes sense to have the next form blue. You don't have to like it, but the changes between the forms can be explained.

[emperior]

Super Saiyan God eyes aren’t “Godly”. Never was it stated in the series that those eyes are anything special. It’s just a stylistic choice.

I agree that it’s a shame how Blue ditches the slimmer body from Super Saiyan God.
And I actually agree that to differentiate it from normal Super Saiyan it would have been great if Blue had pupils too.
The hair color has nothing to do with it though, as it actually makes sense for SSGSS to be blue.

And Goku doesn’t get taller and tanner in SSG. Well, he does, but that’s because colorists messed up and only used Toriyama’s colors for when Goku turned SSG and Yamamuro too copied the design by Toriyama and that’s why Goku seems taller.

[DBZ Macky]

Yeah, it does irk me a bit how pretty much every distinctive SSG is absent from SSB, whether it be the reduced muscle mass or the eyes etc.
I guess it'd make more sense to see SSB as "the God Form of a regular Super Saiyan" rather than "the Super Saiyan form of a God".

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

Visually speaking, beyond the fire analogy, yeah there's not much to link SSG and SSB.

In terms of the actual lore and in-universe information, SSB is essentially a combination of Super Saiyan and Super Saiyan God. Combine the 2 forms, you get a way stronger form with better Ki control and slightly worse stamina.

[Aim]

Yeah yeah, I know, the name is “Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan” But ignoring names and Toyotaro’s own statements for a moment.

The two forms have literally NOTHING in common, except for the fact that both of them use God Ki and have “Super Saiyan God” in their name.

I only heard the phrase "Super Saiyan version of Super Saiyan God in the dub...I'm pretty sure it's explained that it's "the power of Super Saiyan God with Super Saiyan".

If it truly was a legit “Super Saiyan” version of “Super Saiyan God”... Then it would be RED. Not Blue! That’s the biggest red flag for why the two can’t be related. Turning SSJ in SSJ God Mode shouldn’t magically make your color turn Blue.

If Super Saiyan 3 was a legit "Level 3" of "Super Saiyan 2"... then it would have normal length hair, except SPIKIER, and he wouldn't lose his EYEBROWS. That's the biggest red flag for why Super Saiyan 2 & 3 can't be related, in fact, Super Saiyan 1 isn't even the real Super Saiyan form.

Sorry, I'm done now, but can you see how this doesn't make any sense?

Not to mention even bigger reasons...

The EYES! If it truly is a proper ascension of “Super Saiyan God” then the godly divine eyes would remain the same! They would remain LARGE, fully formed, both with pupils and irises, and RED!

This is perhaps the biggest one, you don’t revert your eyes back to your mortal self as in SSJ Blue! That one has mortal Goku’s SSJ1 eyes! Why would you gain Godly eyes in SSJ God Mode, and then the higher ascension of that supposed same ascended form degrade it back to mortal ones?! The fuck????!

Also, SSJ Blue just has Goku’s regular muscular body and skin tone and length.

Unlike SSJ God, which makes Goku skinnier (like a God), taller, a few inches, and darkens the skin tone! Tanner!

If so many of these things are not present in “Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan” (the SUPPOSED proper ascension of the God form!) then it can’t be a legit ascension of it.

Sorry Toyotaro, you may be able to fool others, but you ain’t fooling me.

Also, it was originally only meant to be achieved via a magic ritual involving 6 good hearted Saiyans.

I literally DO NOT, and CAN NOT, SEE.. “HOW” the two forms can EVER be related...

His "Godly Eye's" are red...same as base form...except closed in with the pupils visible. As far as I know, there hasn't been a mention of "Godly eyes" and that's purely a theory at this point.

SSGSS is skinny, if we go by Toriyama's story, the form is meant to be slim like SSG.

I don't think SSG made Goku taller.

Also, it was originally only meant to be achieved via a magic ritual involving 6 good hearted Saiyans.

So a godly form cannot be taught to be sustained by a godly being who is literally beyond everything in their respective universe?

[Peach]

I don't like it either. They should have continued to use the red hair form.

[BlackMagicianX]

I really like the color blue, definitely the color they used in the broli movie. But I would've liked if it was a little more different from regular SS, other than just the color. The ki looks different at least, which is nice.