Exactly “HOW” did Vegeta achieve Super Saiyan God while training under Whis??

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

Moderators: Kanzenshuu Staff, General Help

User avatar
TheSaiyanGod
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1480
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2016 12:09 pm

Re: Exactly “HOW” did Vegeta achieve Super Saiyan God while training under Whis??

Post by TheSaiyanGod » Fri Jul 03, 2020 5:29 pm

Dragon Wukong wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 12:40 pm
Tai Lung wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 11:43 am
that really doesn't prove anything .. since at that time it was the only way to achieve that transformation ..
I very much doubt that Videl (Pan) is willing to collaborate again at Vegeta's whim.
What are they supposed to achieve by training with whis? the ritual is temporary ... it doesn't make sense
For one, there's no reason to assume Videl wouldn't just do the ritual again. There's no reason to assume she wouldn't after everything he's done to defend the earth.

Secondly, in Battle of Gods the SSG ritual provided a permanent power boost to a Saiyan's base form, which we see through Goku's base form being able to fight Final Form Frieza where Gohan failed as a Super Saiyan to fight Frieza's first form in Resurrection F. Even if Super Saiyan God itself was considered temporary in those films at that time, there's no reason to assume Vegeta wouldn't do the ritual between films to bring himself to Goku's level once more.
But in the movie, Goku being able to absorb the SSG's power to maintain the same strength of the transformation is an exception, Beerus himself classifies him as a genius because of this (this is not present in the anime / manga however). So the ritual being used was no guarantee that the transformation could be accessed again

And I think the point is just that we're not sure that the ritual was used in the movie continuity. Vegeta clearly implies that he would use the ritual next time, but that was before he started training with Whis. That was before he knew that there could be other methods of achieving this transformation

What seems to be the case is that in the anime and manga continuities, Vegeta obtained the SSG through training

User avatar
The Undying
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 285
Joined: Sun Dec 22, 2019 5:47 pm

Re: Exactly “HOW” did Vegeta achieve Super Saiyan God while training under Whis??

Post by The Undying » Fri Jul 03, 2020 6:10 pm

I just want to quickly add that in the original Japanese version, the English word "Fusion" (フュージョン/fuujon) refers exclusively to Metamoran fusion, not Potara merging. That's the same term used in the Broly film, and Freeza doesn't recognize it at all.
Formerly Marlowe89.

User avatar
Dragon Wukong
Regular
Posts: 584
Joined: Mon Sep 09, 2013 1:06 am

Re: Exactly “HOW” did Vegeta achieve Super Saiyan God while training under Whis??

Post by Dragon Wukong » Fri Jul 03, 2020 6:30 pm

Tai Lung wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 5:07 pm
not because many of these scenes were important as making it clear that goku and vegeta could not win merged vs beerus .. is included in the series and in the movie this scene was removed
goku's statement does not contradict the series ...
It is not specified ... frieza says "fusion?" like I don't understand the concept of that ..
Just like when gotenks meets frieza he does not specify that he knows that type of fusion he simply assumes it because he sees them separated their bodys ...
False ... it is confirmed that they exist in both versions
https://twitter.com/JaredHendrix6/statu ... 3085258752
First of all, look at Undying's post above mine.
The Undying wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 6:10 pm
I just want to quickly add that in the original Japanese version, the English word "Fusion" (フュージョン/fuujon) refers exclusively to Metamoran fusion, not Potara merging. That's the same term used in the Broly film, and Freeza doesn't recognize it at all.
Fusion refers exclusively to metamoran fusion in the japanese version. (this is also why Dokkan/Legends have separate categories for Fusion and Potara) It's a complete contradiction that Frieza doesn't know what metamoran fusion is after he recognized it in the anime.

Secondly, in the manga those forms are just treated as an extension of Blue. "Blue Kaioken" isn't Goku using Kaioken on top of Blue in the manga, it's him applying the principle of damaging his body to draw out more power in a manner similar to Kaioken (this is also stated in the VJump blurb where you got that information. Look at Cipher's tweets translating it.) The name "Blue Kaioken" is pretty much given to it in VJump because of the obvious parallel with the anime technique. And it fails anyhow, so Goku immediately gives up on it, and would have no reason to use it again when it damaged his body. You may have a point with Blue evolution, but the difference in the manga isn't that it's a new form that changes him physically (muscle/hair expansion, new pupils) it's just a new aura depicted as a "mastery of Blue" that'd be difficult to make clear with in the movie anyhow since it's just SSB with another kind of aura.

Regardless, they're just using SSB in the film, so it doesn't contradict either continuity in that respect.
Tai Lung wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 5:07 pm
partly you are right .. I was remembering badly the scene in which videl was healed by dende with the ritual but anyway if it generates a noticeable wear the characters cannot even fly
the only reason vegeta talks about the ritual is because there was no other way then and again the effect is temporary ... he would have to train with whis anyway to get the god ki
Again, you're mixing continuities. There's no reason to assume Vegeta wouldn't do the ritual after Battle of Gods when we see that the power boost is permanent in that movie, and, again, he says he's going to do it. To assume he doesn't between films is also being presumptuous.

User avatar
Tai Lung
I'm pretty cozy, here...
Posts: 1513
Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:38 pm

Re: Exactly “HOW” did Vegeta achieve Super Saiyan God while training under Whis??

Post by Tai Lung » Fri Jul 03, 2020 7:01 pm

Dragon Wukong wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 6:30 pm
First of all, look at Undying's post above mine
The Undying wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 6:10 pm
I just want to quickly add that in the original Japanese version, the English word "Fusion" (フュージョン/fuujon) refers exclusively to Metamoran fusion, not Potara merging. That's the same term used in the Broly film, and Freeza doesn't recognize it at all.
Dragon Wukong wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 6:30 pm
Fusion refers exclusively to metamoran fusion in the japanese version. (this is also why Dokkan/Legends have separate categories for Fusion and Potara) It's a complete contradiction that Frieza doesn't know what metamoran fusion is after he recognized it in the anime..
Anyway my point does not change frieza uses the word " 合体 / gattai" and no "fusion" to refer to gotenks

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smiJ_fxLze4
Dragon Wukong wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 6:30 pm
Secondly, in the manga those forms are just treated as an extension of Blue. "Blue Kaioken" isn't Goku using Kaioken on top of Blue in the manga, it's him applying the principle of damaging his body to draw out more power in a manner similar to Kaioken (this is also stated in the VJump blurb where you got that information. Look at Cipher's tweets translating it.) The name "Blue Kaioken" is pretty much given to it in VJump because of the obvious parallel with the anime technique. And it fails anyhow, so Goku immediately gives up on it, and would have no reason to use it again when it damaged his body. You may have a point with Blue evolution, but the difference in the manga isn't that it's a new form that changes him physically (muscle/hair expansion, new pupils) it's just a new aura depicted as a "mastery of Blue" that'd be difficult to make clear with in the movie anyhow since it's just SSB with another kind of aura.

Regardless, they're just using SSB in the film, so it doesn't contradict either continuity in that respect.
he use the same principles ... is the kaioken if it were not there would be no sense that goku would get more power when he is already in SSB 100%

it's just a vague excuse because it's really easy to do it being just a change of aura in animation it's like the God red ...
Dragon Wukong wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 6:30 pm
Again, you're mixing continuities. There's no reason to assume Vegeta wouldn't do the ritual after Battle of Gods when we see that the power boost is permanent in that movie, and, again, he says he's going to do it. To assume he doesn't between films is also being presumptuous.
the power is maintained but the "god ki" does not ... the training, is strictly necessary while the ritual is temporary

Sadala Elite
Banned
Posts: 549
Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2020 2:27 pm

Re: Exactly “HOW” did Vegeta achieve Super Saiyan God while training under Whis??

Post by Sadala Elite » Sat Jul 04, 2020 4:06 pm

Dragon Wukong wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 1:33 pm
Sadala Elite wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 1:02 pm
Yet Toriyama himself said that the movie was right after the anime lol
Obvious pro manga bias lol. And there's no such thing as "filler" in Super (that's just BS manga fanboys use to discredit the anime) because Super is not an adaption of anything
Did Frieza know about Fusion before DBS Broly or didn't he? The DBS anime suggests the former while Resurrection F and DBS Broly suggest the latter and where did the anime imply Freeza already knew fusion?. Frieza knowing about metamoran fusion wasn't written by Toriyama for the DBS anime, and DBS Broly, a later work written by Toriyama, contradicts that, so that puts the scene in a realm pretty similar to filler Toriyama didn't have Vegito in his outline for the Black arc, yet he's in the manga, therefore the manga is filler. That's how dumb your argument sounds lol. I'm not talking about the manga at all, please take your weird anime insecurity out of this discussion and stick to actual arguments. You're being rather toxic in this discussion.
I don't even like the anime all that much, you are projecting. Youre the insecure one since you treat anything not in the manga as "filler". And no, there's no such thing as filler in Super, you failed to prove otherwise
Sadala Elite wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 1:02 pm
If it was temporarily then he wouldn't of had permanent access to SSB at all (logic)
What do you mean? In the movies during that time period I literally just said in the post you quoted that the SSG ritual had a permanent effect on Goku. The boost was clearly still a thing where SSG was absorbed in the movie continuity, including Resurrection F, and only got retconned during Super there is no Saiyan-beyond god retcon. Thats just a fan myth (and at which point that was is still rather vague.)
Sadala Elite wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 1:06 pm
No one is mixing anything
Really?
Sadala Elite wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:27 pm
It was flat out stated by Goku in all versions of RoF that Vegeta intentionally did not use the ritual to achieve God status.
This is flat out wrong (and you never addressed the fact you were incorrect.)
Sadala Elite wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:34 pm
Also, Toyotaro wrote an official RoF manga in 2015, and Vegeta wasn't ever stated to have used the ritual there either.
Nevermind that you somehow use a lack of proof in the manga to debate that the ritual wasn't used in the movie, even though at that time it was just promotion for a movie set in a continuity where again, it was heavily implied the ritual was used your alleged "implications" about Vegeta using the ritual was debunked in a previous post, and ended before the actual fight anyhow. Just see my posts, or Grimlock's post linking to the statement where Vegeta asks for Goku's cooperation to do the ritual again at the end of BoG.
And said statement seems to have been ignored or forgetton in RoF
In short, you actively ignore any statements that prove you're incorrect in this thread, be it by me or others, yet still continue to be combative, and outright toxic in your arguments. All because it seems like you really want the anime to be "correct" when it comes to how Vegeta attained Super Saiyan God You are projecting again, I never said a thing about the tv anime being the "correct" version of Super (whatever that means), manga fan insecurity much? even though that's just one continuity and you can infer a myriad of other ways in the other two cotinuities.

I haven't even said that the anime's depiction is "wrong." You're the one mocking someone for pointing out an actual contradiction between mediums in the series as having a "manga bias," when the manga itself wasn't even brought up. Yet you arw the one who dismisses anything in the anime as "filler"

User avatar
Grimlock
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 6276
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2016 4:11 pm
Location: Conton City

Re: Exactly “HOW” did Vegeta achieve Super Saiyan God while training under Whis??

Post by Grimlock » Sat Jul 04, 2020 4:39 pm

Sadala Elite wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 4:06 pm
where did the anime imply Freeza already knew fusion?
Right here (thanks to Tai Lung for already providing the source just above your comment). Much more than just "implication", Freeza knows the concept given his reaction and even refers to it by name.

In Dragon Ball Super: Broly, they went out of their way just to establish that that moment was Freeza's first interaction with a fused character, which was then further corroborated by Gogeta's statement: "you were dead for so long, so you wouldn't know about it".

Sadala Elite wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 4:06 pm
And said statement seems to have been ignored or forgetton in RoF
What in Movie 15 gives you the impression it was "ignored or forgetton"? Because stuff happening off-screen is very common in Dragon Ball. Do bear in mind that "lack of evidence" is not an evidence.

User avatar
Tai Lung
I'm pretty cozy, here...
Posts: 1513
Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:38 pm

Re: Exactly “HOW” did Vegeta achieve Super Saiyan God while training under Whis??

Post by Tai Lung » Sat Jul 04, 2020 6:03 pm

Grimlock wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 4:39 pm
In Dragon Ball Super: Broly, they went out of their way just to establish that that moment was Freeza's first interaction with a fused character, which was then further corroborated by Gogeta's statement: "you were dead for so long, so you wouldn't know about it".
but that should be a mistake .. frieza meet kefla and Abo cabo

Sadala Elite
Banned
Posts: 549
Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2020 2:27 pm

Re: Exactly “HOW” did Vegeta achieve Super Saiyan God while training under Whis??

Post by Sadala Elite » Sat Jul 04, 2020 6:08 pm

Grimlock wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 4:39 pm
Sadala Elite wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 4:06 pm
where did the anime imply Freeza already knew fusion?
Right here (thanks to Tai Lung for already providing the source just above your comment). Much more than just "implication", Freeza knows the concept given his reaction and even refers to it by name. Then it looks like Toriyama simply forgot about the details of RoF when writing the Broly film

In Dragon Ball Super: Broly, they went out of their way just to establish that that moment was Freeza's first interaction with a fused character, which was then further corroborated by Gogeta's statement: "you were dead for so long, so you wouldn't know about it".

Sadala Elite wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 4:06 pm
And said statement seems to have been ignored or forgetton in RoF
What in Movie 15 gives you the impression it was "ignored or forgetton"? Because stuff happening off-screen is very common in Dragon Ball offscreen events are still always explicitly mentioned to have happened in DB, which simply never was the case with the ritual & Vegeta. Do bear in mind that "lack of evidence" is not an evidence.

Sadala Elite
Banned
Posts: 549
Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2020 2:27 pm

Re: Exactly “HOW” did Vegeta achieve Super Saiyan God while training under Whis??

Post by Sadala Elite » Sat Jul 04, 2020 6:10 pm

Tai Lung wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 6:03 pm
Grimlock wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 4:39 pm
In Dragon Ball Super: Broly, they went out of their way just to establish that that moment was Freeza's first interaction with a fused character, which was then further corroborated by Gogeta's statement: "you were dead for so long, so you wouldn't know about it".
but that should be a mistake .. frieza meet kefla and Abo cabo
Yes, even in the manga Freeza has seen Kefla and Aniraza, so its a contradiction either way.

User avatar
Grimlock
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 6276
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2016 4:11 pm
Location: Conton City

Re: Exactly “HOW” did Vegeta achieve Super Saiyan God while training under Whis??

Post by Grimlock » Sat Jul 04, 2020 10:36 pm

Tai Lung wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 6:03 pm
but that should be a mistake .. frieza meet kefla and Abo cabo
Not for Abo and Cado. Yes, they can merge, but that doesn't mean they merged in front of Freeza before.

As for Kafla, you may have a point. Still, we know that they shouldn't even exist to begin with. Either way, we don't have access to Toriyama's outline, we don't know if their fusion is in Toriyama's notes (even after coming up with Caulifla). I'd argue that the way they went out of their way to establish Freeza's first interaction with fusion being in Dragon Ball Super Broly, whatever happened between Freeza and Kafla is solely confined within its own continuity, just like Vegeta's Super Saiyan God.
Sadala Elite wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 6:08 pm
Then it looks like Toriyama simply forgot about the details of RoF when writing the Broly film
What detail? Gotenks only appears in the anime version, there's no Gotenks in Movie 15.
Sadala Elite wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 6:08 pm
offscreen events are still always explicitly mentioned to have happened in DB, which simply never was the case with the ritual & Vegeta.
Correct. And we have a mention to ritual in Movie 14. Unless you want yet another word on it for some reason.

User avatar
Dragon Wukong
Regular
Posts: 584
Joined: Mon Sep 09, 2013 1:06 am

Re: Exactly “HOW” did Vegeta achieve Super Saiyan God while training under Whis??

Post by Dragon Wukong » Sat Jul 04, 2020 11:12 pm

Sadala Elite wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 6:10 pm
Yes, even in the manga Freeza has seen Kefla and Aniraza, so its a contradiction either way.
Kefla Aka and Aniraza don't contradict it, they're people from completely different universes, with abilities either unique to them or granted by the gods. It's perfectly within reason that Frieza could see those characters and still be surprised that Goku and Vegeta could also fuse. It's not equivalent to Frieza seeing two Saiyans on earth who did the fusion dance, not be surprised by it, then be surprised by Goku and Vegeta having that same exact technique.
Last edited by Dragon Wukong on Sat Jul 04, 2020 11:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Sadala Elite
Banned
Posts: 549
Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2020 2:27 pm

Re: Exactly “HOW” did Vegeta achieve Super Saiyan God while training under Whis??

Post by Sadala Elite » Sat Jul 04, 2020 11:13 pm

Grimlock wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 10:36 pm
Tai Lung wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 6:03 pm
but that should be a mistake .. frieza meet kefla and Abo cabo
Not for Abo and Cado. Yes, they can merge, but that doesn't mean they merged in front of Freeza before.

As for Kafla, you may have a point. Still, we know that they shouldn't even exist to begin with. Either way, we don't have access to Toriyama's outline, we don't know if their fusion is in Toriyama's notes (even after coming up with Caulifla). I'd argue that the way they went out of their way to establish Freeza's first interaction with fusion being in Dragon Ball Super Broly, whatever happened between Freeza and Kafla is solely confined within its own continuity, just like Vegeta's Super Saiyan God.
Sadala Elite wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 6:08 pm
Then it looks like Toriyama simply forgot about the details of RoF when writing the Broly film
What detail? Gotenks only appears in the anime version, there's no Gotenks in Movie 15.
Sadala Elite wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 6:08 pm
offscreen events are still always explicitly mentioned to have happened in DB, which simply never was the case with the ritual & Vegeta.
Correct. And we have a mention to ritual in Movie 14. Unless you want yet another word on it for some reason. Yet no explict mention of Vegeta ever doing it in Movie 15. There would be no debate about this otherwise

Sadala Elite
Banned
Posts: 549
Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2020 2:27 pm

Re: Exactly “HOW” did Vegeta achieve Super Saiyan God while training under Whis??

Post by Sadala Elite » Sat Jul 04, 2020 11:17 pm

Dragon Wukong wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 11:12 pm
Sadala Elite wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 6:10 pm
Yes, even in the manga Freeza has seen Kefla and Aniraza, so its a contradiction either way.
Kefla Aka and Aniraza don't contradict it, they're people from completely different universes, with abilities either unique to them or granted by the gods. It's not equivalent to Frieza seeing two Saiyans on earth who did the fusion dance, not be surprised by it, then be surprised by Goku and Vegeta having that same power.
This is a stupid argument, because the fact that Freeza saw the U6 Saiyan girls fused into Kefla in both mediums at all logically means that Freeza should have already known about fusion in general before the Broly film.

Fusion is fusion, regardless of what race or universe you're from.

User avatar
Dragon Wukong
Regular
Posts: 584
Joined: Mon Sep 09, 2013 1:06 am

Re: Exactly “HOW” did Vegeta achieve Super Saiyan God while training under Whis??

Post by Dragon Wukong » Sat Jul 04, 2020 11:19 pm

Sadala Elite wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 11:17 pm
This is a stupid argument, because the fact that Freeza saw the U6 Saiyan girls fused into Kefla in both mediums at all logically means that Freeza should have already known about fusion in general before the Broly film.

Fusion is fusion, regardless of what race or universe you're from.
Potara literally requires a specific artifact to do it. Why would Frieza assume Goku and Vegeta can just pull that out whenever?

Also, stop being rude in your arguments. Your attempt to shutdown any valid points that various people in this thread have had against you is toxic.

User avatar
Tai Lung
I'm pretty cozy, here...
Posts: 1513
Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:38 pm

Re: Exactly “HOW” did Vegeta achieve Super Saiyan God while training under Whis??

Post by Tai Lung » Sun Jul 05, 2020 2:16 am

Grimlock wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 10:36 pm
Tai Lung wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 6:03 pm
but that should be a mistake .. frieza meet kefla and Abo cabo
Not for Abo and Cado. Yes, they can merge, but that doesn't mean they merged in front of Freeza before.

As for Kafla, you may have a point. Still, we know that they shouldn't even exist to begin with. Either way, we don't have access to Toriyama's outline, we don't know if their fusion is in Toriyama's notes (even after coming up with Caulifla). I'd argue that the way they went out of their way to establish Freeza's first interaction with fusion being in Dragon Ball Super Broly, whatever happened between Freeza and Kafla is solely confined within its own continuity, just like Vegeta's Super Saiyan God.
aka belongs to the elite of frieza it is impossible he not to know him not his skills for something is elite
Dragon Wukong wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 11:12 pm
Sadala Elite wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 6:10 pm
Yes, even in the manga Freeza has seen Kefla and Aniraza, so its a contradiction either way.
Kefla Aka and Aniraza don't contradict it, they're people from completely different universes, with abilities either unique to them or granted by the gods. It's perfectly within reason that Frieza could see those characters and still be surprised that Goku and Vegeta could also fuse. It's not equivalent to Frieza seeing two Saiyans on earth who did the fusion dance, not be surprised by it, then be surprised by Goku and Vegeta having that same exact technique.
no .. because they didn't do used fusion dance in front of him ... or explain how they have it

aka belongs to the elite of frieza it is impossible he not to know him not his skills for something is elite
false because he already saw caulifla and kale merge

Sadala Elite
Banned
Posts: 549
Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2020 2:27 pm

Re: Exactly “HOW” did Vegeta achieve Super Saiyan God while training under Whis??

Post by Sadala Elite » Sun Jul 05, 2020 8:05 am

Dragon Wukong wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 11:19 pm
Sadala Elite wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 11:17 pm
This is a stupid argument, because the fact that Freeza saw the U6 Saiyan girls fused into Kefla in both mediums at all logically means that Freeza should have already known about fusion in general before the Broly film.

Fusion is fusion, regardless of what race or universe you're from.

Potara literally requires a specific artifact to do it. Why would Frieza assume Goku and Vegeta can just pull that out whenever?

Also, stop being rude in your arguments. Your attempt to shutdown any valid points that various people in this thread have had against you is toxic.
You're still assuming that the type of fusion matters in this case when the overall point was that Freeza should already be aware of the existence of fusion in general by the time of the Broly film (yet seemed surprised that anyone could fuse at all in that movie, despite already seeing it by at least the ToP arc if not RoF). That's what makes your argument dumb.

User avatar
The Undying
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 285
Joined: Sun Dec 22, 2019 5:47 pm

Re: Exactly “HOW” did Vegeta achieve Super Saiyan God while training under Whis??

Post by The Undying » Sun Jul 05, 2020 9:32 am

Dragon Wukong wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 11:12 pm
It's not equivalent to Frieza seeing two Saiyans on earth who did the fusion dance, not be surprised by it, then be surprised by Goku and Vegeta having that same exact technique.
Not to mention they wore the exact same clothing. Freeza in the movie has no idea what he's looking at, and doesn't even acknowledge meeting Gotenks after Gogeta explains the concept of fusion to him.

So either Freeza has bad memory and recognition (unlikely, given that he was able to recognize a low class Saiyan around 30 years prior to meeting Goku who resembles him) or it's just a blatant continuity error on the anime's part (much more likely, given that Toriyama rarely if ever has any involvement in Toei's scriptwriting choices beyond his own outlines).
Formerly Marlowe89.

HulkTySSJ4
Newbie
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed Mar 11, 2020 9:43 am

Re: Exactly “HOW” did Vegeta achieve Super Saiyan God while training under Whis??

Post by HulkTySSJ4 » Sun Jul 05, 2020 9:39 am

Dragon Wukong wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 4:45 pm
In the anime, he trained hard. In the movies, it's heavily implied he did the ritual after Battle of Gods between films. In the manga it's never explained, so take your pick.

It's not exactly a complex issue. Toppo actually makes it clear that one can learn to use God ki via proper training in the manga, as all Gods of Destruction are mortals that had to learn how, and Super Saiyan God is implied to just be the Saiyan version of that.
For the 2nd option: Why not let Gohan, Goten, and Trunks get the form too then? Even if they simply don't trust Goten and Trunks with that much strength yet, surely Gohan would be fine.
Is this simply too say Gohan's Elder Kai ability truly is the ultimate form overall?

User avatar
Dragon Wukong
Regular
Posts: 584
Joined: Mon Sep 09, 2013 1:06 am

Re: Exactly “HOW” did Vegeta achieve Super Saiyan God while training under Whis??

Post by Dragon Wukong » Sun Jul 05, 2020 10:30 am

HulkTySSJ4 wrote:
Sun Jul 05, 2020 9:39 am
For the 2nd option: Why not let Gohan, Goten, and Trunks get the form too then? Even if they simply don't trust Goten and Trunks with that much strength yet, surely Gohan would be fine.
Is this simply too say Gohan's Elder Kai ability truly is the ultimate form overall?
Goten and Trunks most likely just don't care, Gohan just prefers his Ultimate form.
Sadala Elite wrote:
Sun Jul 05, 2020 8:05 am
You're still assuming that the type of fusion matters in this case when the overall point was that Freeza should already be aware of the existence of fusion in general by the time of the Broly film (yet seemed surprised that anyone could fuse at all in that movie, despite already seeing it by at least the ToP arc if not RoF). That's what makes your argument dumb.
Why would the type of fusion not matter? Frieza isn't necessarily shocked by the existence of fusion, but the fact GOKU AND VEGETA fused. Without potara in fact. That's pretty significant, even after witnessing Kefla. To deny otherwise is being facetious. You saying that argument is "dumb" is again, you trying to shut down a valid point so you can come up as the "winner" of this pointless debate.

Psajdak
Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
Posts: 303
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2020 7:37 am

Re: Exactly “HOW” did Vegeta achieve Super Saiyan God while training under Whis??

Post by Psajdak » Sun Jul 05, 2020 11:25 am

The same way Goten was born, or Kuririn and 18 married.

Post Reply