SSJ God was supposed to be “a being that surpasses everything”

[emperior]

The trope of "He is strong but actually looks really weak" is a played out trope that isn't fun anymore.

Just because it's a Toriyama idea doesn't automatically make it good. Actually, I think he currently is a detriment to the franchise, as DB Super has shown. He hasn't the foggiest idea of what to do with the story or characters.

What else could he have done ? Ssj3 and Ssj4 were very strong and complex looking forms, was he to somehow go even above those two? I think going the simple rout was the right idea, as trying to design an even more complicated form would've more than likely just looked ridiculous.

I agree with this statement, but it's worth mentioning that there are others to blame as well, as he's not the only one making decisions.

I agree with you in that SSJ3 and 4 are hard to top. Actually, I don't think BoG didn't need a new form (story wise). Combining SSJ3 with Kaioken, akin to what they did in Super with Blue (although they fouled that up as well) could have been a interesting way to go at it. If they do want a new form, it is on them to think of a new cool form, no matter how hard it may be.Only dying the hair is just lazy, especially since it was 'just' a power up. I would like it more if there was a caveat to it like how Kaioken can break down your body and how SSJ3 exhausts your energy. Just do something different.

As far as new forms, I liked the approach in Ultra intinct omen. It would also be interesting to see the pseudo-SSJ form from the Slug movie. The red aura, lack of pupils and different character made it arguably more interesting than the 'real' ssj1.

Super Saiyan God WAS something different. That’s why it was so divisive among fans. It was not safe at all.
It also fit the story perfectly, considering the story was actually centered around Super Saiyan God.
The caveat to it was that it had a limited time, which is why the first guy who used it on Planet Vegeta was eventually killed by the evil Saiyans.

[Matches Malone]

Combining SSJ3 with Kaioken, akin to what they did in Super with Blue could have been a interesting way to go at it.

Only dying the hair is just lazy, especially since it was 'just' a power up. I would like it more if there was a caveat to it like how Kaioken can break down your body and how SSJ3 exhausts your energy.

Combining Blue and Kaioken never looked right to me, so doing it with Ssj3 would've looked worse IMO.

There are other differences besides the hair color. For starters, the hair keeps Goku's base design, it has a flame like aura, it (in BOG) required the help of 5 other Saiyans to reach, it (again, in BOG) had a time limit, and it made the user skinnier. Unfortunately, parts of what made it unique have been thrown out. When it comes to lazy, SsjB blue is what's lazy, as it's literally just a Blue Ssj. SsjG may not have been what everyone wanted, but at least it tried to be unique, as mentioned above.

[miguelnuva1]

Combining SSJ3 with Kaioken, akin to what they did in Super with Blue could have been a interesting way to go at it.

Only dying the hair is just lazy, especially since it was 'just' a power up. I would like it more if there was a caveat to it like how Kaioken can break down your body and how SSJ3 exhausts your energy.

Combining Blue and Kaioken never looked right to me, so doing it with Ssj3 would've looked worse IMO.

There are other differences besides the hair color. For starters, the hair keeps Goku's base design, it has a flame like aura, it (in BOG) required the help of 5 other Saiyans to reach, it (again, in BOG) had a time limit, and it made the user skinnier. Unfortunately, parts of what made it unique have been thrown out. When it comes to lazy, SsjB blue is what's lazy, as it's literally just a Blue Ssj. SsjG may not have been what everyone wanted, but at least it tried to be unique, as mentioned above.

I'm the Toriyama sketches Blue is both skinner and Goku has different hair from SS.

[Aim]

Skinny loser? Ooh, those are the best, especially when you get some into some nice cute crop tops that say "Daddy's Girl" and shows off their nice, toned tummy...and some fishnets and super tight shorts that don't fit and shows their bul--uh, it really shows off their appeal. Super Saiyan God is the form that surpasses everything: the femboy Super Saiyan form!!


Run-on sentences.

The people trying to use that whole "skinny" argument really don't understand how muscle, speed and power work, and probably the same genius' to say Bruce Lee was weak.

Femboy Super Saiyan? Sign me



up.

[Aim]

^It also reflect well his latest style. I like it, wish SSB was skinny too.

SSGSS is skinny, for some reason they have kept moving away from that though, even with Ultra Instinct.

[Aim]

Even ignoring those examples, the trope of "He is strong but actually looks really weak" is a played out trope that isn't fun anymore.

It was never fun in the first place, Toriyama has a thing about doing the opposite of what fans demand. Want to series the be more round? He makes it more angular, want big buff forms? You get SSG, SSGSS and UI.

Just because it's a Toriyama idea doesn't automatically make it good. Actually, I think he currently is a detriment to the franchise, as DB Super has shown. He hasn't the foggiest idea of what to do with the story or characters.

Knowing Japan's obsession with marketing and using him during production, the chances of dropping him are slim to none.

I completely disagree. He's anything but a detriment to the franchise, without him, we would be getting these god awful designs like SSGSS Evolved, we'd be getting the whole "Lizards take over the world" thing that Toriyama scraped, which was by Toei. We'd have a really bad Super Saiyan God design, Yamamuro's, DBS: Broly wouldn't have been near as good as it was.

If you look at fan works, or anything that Toriyama isn't involved in, it always misses that spark, that "Toriyama-ness", without Toriyama, we'd have something equal to fan made shitty stories with even worse designs.

[emperior]

Well to be honest martial arts in real life heavily favor the heaviest competitor. It’s just much easier to generate power if you weigh more.

This doesn’t mean that someone who is slim can’t possibly win a fight against someone bigger because that’s just plain wrong, as of course technique plays a big role.

But at certain skill levels there are diminishing returns to the way technique can be improved. That’s why there are weight classes. In UFC there are light fighters which are surely more tecnical than fighters in upper weight categories, but they still would have a very hard time winning a fight against those heavier, less skilled fighters, because of the weight differences.

Besides, as a Bruce Lee fan, I will say that he’s iconic not only because of his undeniable skills but because of his contribution to the world of martial arts.
He was among the first to mix styles with his Jeet Kune Do, basically creating what is nowadays known as MMA.
But he had no real competitive fighting track record, as he wasn’t interested in fighting for sport and in fact his style had some dirty moves which wouldn’t be allowed in competitions.
Therefore we have no real idea on how he would fare against nowadays’ professionals but the consensus is that he would most likely lose to a lot of them (of course if he trained nowadays things would be different for him).

But Dragon Ball is different. In Dragon Ball weight classes are basically power levels, and too much muscle often becomes a problem as it slows down the fighter (the real life equivalent would be of how too much muscle mass not only can slow you down, but it also requires more oxygen and is thus harder to sustain in fight, see how Anthony Joshua had to cut down weight in his rematch bout vs Ruiz to win).
Super Saiyan God is incredibly fitting of the world Toriyama created and its internal rules, but it’s also something people can see and understand it would make sense in real life too.

[Matches Malone]

I completely disagree. He's anything but a detriment to the franchise, without him, we'd be getting the whole "Lizards take over the world" thing that Toriyama scraped, which was by Toei. We'd have a really bad Super Saiyan God design, Yamamuro's, DBS: Broly wouldn't have been near as good as it was.

I'll always be grateful for his involvement in BOG, as I believe it to be just as good as his original work in the manga. It was everything I wanted from a post Buu arc story, and it completely washed away the bad taste left behind by GT. However, that was followed by Minus and RF, both of which are unoriginal, poor versions of their Bardock Special and Namek arc counterparts respectively. We then got 2 tournaments, which were extremely boring and underwhelming, especially compared to the tournaments in the original manga. We also got the Zamasu arc, which had potential, but ended up wasting it in favor of focusing on Trunks' timeline and having one of the worst endings in the franchise. Lastly, we got a rebooted Broly that was very similar to its original counterpart, making the whole thing pointless.

[JulieYBM]

Skinny loser? Ooh, those are the best, especially when you get some into some nice cute crop tops that say "Daddy's Girl" and shows off their nice, toned tummy...and some fishnets and super tight shorts that don't fit and shows their bul--uh, it really shows off their appeal. Super Saiyan God is the form that surpasses everything: the femboy Super Saiyan form!!


Run-on sentences.

The people trying to use that whole "skinny" argument really don't understand how muscle, speed and power work, and probably the same genius' to say Bruce Lee was weak.

Femboy Super Saiyan? Sign me



up.

Yeah, exactly. Size doesn't equal strength, thin can work.

Also Femboys Super Saiyan is so hot to think about...

[Aim]

I'll always be grateful for his involvement in BOG, as I believe it to be just as good as his original work in the manga. It was everything I wanted from a post Buu arc story, and it completely washed away the bad taste left behind by GT. However, that was followed by Minus and RF, both of which are unoriginal, poor versions of their Bardock Special and Namek arc counterparts respectively. We then got 2 tournaments, which were extremely boring and underwhelming, especially compared to the tournaments in the original manga. We also got the Zamasu arc, which had potential, but ended up wasting it in favor of focusing on Trunks' timeline and having one of the worst endings in the franchise. Lastly, we got a rebooted Broly that was very similar to its original counterpart, making the whole thing pointless.

To be perfectly honest, I feel Toei was responsible for the absolute garbage we have received over the years, they put in charge a narcissistic salty asshole who is a legend among DB fans, none other than Yamamuro. If Toriyama drew a manga, even if he took his time, I don't mind, we probably would have gotten a huge step up from Toyotaro and Toei in many respects.

I personally liked DB Minus for the simple fact it was just a little sneak peak on what actually happened back then, I like how Bardock is a somewhat good person who feels he wants to save his child, and I can totally still see him going to face Freeza, only to die in vain.

Future Trunks arc had a god awful ending in both the anime and manga, absolutely terrible. And it will forever leave a bad taste in my mouth. Not to mention Toei's nuances like Goku Black's Super Saiyan form being Rosé basically, and Toyotaro making Goku Black seem more like Zikor in his fan manga years ago if anything.

[UpFromTheSkies]

Every transformation in the series is initially built up to be an ultimate transformation and then gets surpassed so I was expecting it to happen. If you're looking for a logical, well thought out story without inconsistencies then I'd suggest looking elsewhere because Dragon Ball isn't meant to be taken seriously, it's just a fun shonen comic with flashy fight scenes and cheesy puns.

[BagetaSama]

Capitalism, baby! Merchandise needs selling because capitalism requires that sweet, sweet unsustainable growth!

How did you manage to make Super Saiyan God, political?

[JulieYBM]

Capitalism, baby! Merchandise needs selling because capitalism requires that sweet, sweet unsustainable growth!

How did you manage to make Super Saiyan God, political?

Everything is political. SSG and more forms are made to be sold, capitalism produces waste for the profit of a few, rather than the many.

[Matches Malone]

Capitalism, baby! Merchandise needs selling because capitalism requires that sweet, sweet unsustainable growth!

How did you manage to make Super Saiyan God, political?

Some people can make everything political, it's why we can't have nice things.

[miguelnuva1]

Capitalism, baby! Merchandise needs selling because capitalism requires that sweet, sweet unsustainable growth!

How did you manage to make Super Saiyan God, political?

Some people can make everything political, it's why we can't have nice things.

She's right about SS God and capitalism. Not wanting it mentioned is one thing but she's not wrong.

[Matches Malone]

She's right about SS God and capitalism. Not wanting it mentioned is one thing but she's not wrong.

No one gets into business for any reason other than capitalism, even the greatest writers/filmmakers. Business aside, every career decision is made based on how much money it'll make you.

[JulieYBM]

She's right about SS God and capitalism. Not wanting it mentioned is one thing but she's not wrong.

No one gets into business for any reason other than capitalism, even the greatest writers/filmmakers. Business aside, every career decision is made based on how much money it'll make you.

You've just described why capitalism sucks balls.

[Matches Malone]

You've just described why capitalism sucks balls.

If you were working an 8 hour job every day, be it as a writer, teacher, doctor, etc., would you do it for free ? Probably not, which is a part of capitalism, you use a specific skill you have to make money.

When it comes to SsjG and DB as a whole, Toriyama makes his decisions based on what he thinks will result in a financially successful product, just as any writer currently working does. I haven't agreed with most of the decisions made in regards to modern DB, but I can't fully blame Toriyama for it, as that's not only what fans are paying for, but demanding as well.

[JulieYBM]

You've just described why capitalism sucks balls.

If you were working an 8 hour job every day, be it as a writer, teacher, doctor, etc., would you do it for free ? Probably not, which is a part of capitalism, you use a specific skill you have to make money.

When it comes to SsjG and DB as a whole, Toriyama makes his decisions based on what he thinks will result in a financially successful product, just as any writer currently working does. I haven't agreed with most of the decisions made in regards to modern DB, but I can't fully blame Toriyama for it, as that's not only what fans are paying for, but demanding as well.

I worked retailed for five years, 40 hours a week, destroying my body and mind, all for wages too small to move out on my own and take care of my health. Why? Because capitalism. The family I worked for was worth over $100,000,000,000 but they couldn't pay their essential workers enough money to live comfortably, despite working a ridiculously high number of hours? Bullshit. If the workers had control over the corporation the profits would be going to us, not overpaid executives that didn't actually generate the profits. Capitalism is feudalism dressed up in flowery words.

New transformations are created because they sell merchandise. Merchandise earns earn corporations profits--money greater than the amount they spent on production of said merchandise. The profits of a corporation go toward making the executives live ridiculously comfortable lives while the workers--the people who actually generated those profits--live lives of hardship and have no democratic power to instead take the profits for themselves. Capitalism is about greed and allowing the wealthy to amass all of the world's money. Such a system means the very wealthy will rely on the same intellectual property constantly to produce more profits, creative will power be damned.

[Matches Malone]

New transformations are created because they sell merchandise. Merchandise earns corporations profits--money greater than the amount they spent on production of said merchandise. The profits of a corporation go toward making the executives live ridiculously comfortable lives while the people who actually generated those profits live lives of hardship.

Capitalism is only a small part of a massive problem, which can be divided into 3 parts:

1- Politics: Worldwide, there aren't enough laws put in place to protect workers. People do what they can get away with, and what you went through is allowed by corrupt politicians who refuse to do anything about it.

2- The workers: At the end of the day, these companies wouldn't function without us, yet we put our heads down for the smallest of crumbs. If enough workers put their foot down and said, no, we're not working for that, you'd see things change.

3- The general public: They're the ones that make all this possible by supporting companies they know for a fact that are not only ripping them off, but also stepping on the workers that bring them what they purchase.

In my opinion, Capitalism is used as a front to take away attention from the real issues, the 3 issues I mentioned above. I agree that capitalism has been used to hurt others, but it's by far not the only or even main issue that's allowing that to go on.