Should Freeza have never been revived in Super?

[Kagari]

I've enjoyed his appearances for the most part and his dynamic with Goku in the Universal Survival arc was A+ material. But I can't help but feel in the grand scheme that Freeza's return(s) have been a major case of Toriyama in general having little to no faith in believing he can create a new and interesting antagonist without having to go down the old nostalgia well.

And it's such as shame because Beerus was such a wonderful change in pace when it came to antagonists in Battle Of God, and I wish he would have kept up that trend.

But if Resurrection F was an indication of anything, it's that Toriyama is just as guilty as Toei and Toyotaro when it comes to character favouritism, shameless pandering and just phoning it in.

That's exactly it. Freeza is a "safe" option in every sense of the word, and it's telling that he's either mentioned or part of every arc in Super except the Trunks arc (I think?). If BoG was a step forward, RoF began a massive step back.

[Matches Malone]

If BoG was a step forward, RoF began a massive step back.

I think what helped BOG was everyone involved not expecting it to result in anything major, they thought it was just going to be a one time project. Once they saw how much interest there was in the franchise, they started playing everything extremely safe, going as far as taking fan requests into consideration.

[LoganForkHands73]

I find it funny that Toriyama shamelessly called Resurrection F pure fanservice. It was always doomed to fail.

[Koitsukai]

Freeza's 4 month special to me was more for Toei than for us.
Toei spent a 2 decades in-universe making a laughing stock out of Freeza in ways that were described in this thread, and Toriyama just went oh had a good laugh?, well my guy training just for 4 months could outclass everything Toei, Koyama, etc could come up with for the past 20 years, even better he can outclass what I came up with for Goku and Vegeta just now.

It really is weird to have Freeza be the first enemy after BoG. The set-up promised much more, Beerus spoke in a way that it felt there were going to discover new worlds and powers. Nah, just bring Freeza, make him a challenge for current Goku somehow.

[Matches Malone]

I find it funny that Toriyama shamelessly called Resurrection F pure fanservice. It was always doomed to fail.

Toriyama and everyone involved have said more than once that their goal is to give fans what they want, going as far as saying one of the goals of the established dragon room is to figure out what fans worldwide expect from the franchise.

It really is weird to have Freeza be the first enemy after BoG. The set-up promised much more, Beerus spoke in a way that it felt there were going to discover new worlds and powers.

That's because the ending of BOG wasn't really a set up, but rather a message to the viewer that Goku's adventures would never end, similar to the message in his manga's ending. In an interview 6 months after BOG's release, Toriyama said he hadn't thought of anything regarding DB's future, as there were simply no plans for it to move ahead.

[Koitsukai]

I find it funny that Toriyama shamelessly called Resurrection F pure fanservice. It was always doomed to fail.

Toriyama and everyone involved have said more than once that their goal is to give fans what they want, going as far as saying one of the goals of the established dragon room is to figure out what fans worldwide expect from the franchise.

It really is weird to have Freeza be the first enemy after BoG. The set-up promised much more, Beerus spoke in a way that it felt there were going to discover new worlds and powers.

That's because the ending of BOG wasn't really a set up, but rather a message to the viewer that Goku's adventures would never end, similar to the message in his manga's ending. In an interview 6 months after BOG's release, Toriyama said he hadn't thought of anything regarding DB's future, as there were simply no plans for it to move ahead.

Even more so, it opened up a multiverse of possibilities, literally a multiverse... and then they called Freeza's agent.

[Matches Malone]

Even more so, it opened up a multiverse of possibilities, literally a multiverse... and then they called Freeza's agent.

I'm sure Cell wishes he had such a good agent, as the poor guy can barely get a cameo now.

[Lord Beerus]

I've enjoyed his appearances for the most part and his dynamic with Goku in the Universal Survival arc was A+ material. But I can't help but feel in the grand scheme that Freeza's return(s) have been a major case of Toriyama in general having little to no faith in believing he can create a new and interesting antagonist without having to go down the old nostalgia well.

And it's such as shame because Beerus was such a wonderful change in pace when it came to antagonists in Battle Of God, and I wish he would have kept up that trend.

But if Resurrection F was an indication of anything, it's that Toriyama is just as guilty as Toei and Toyotaro when it comes to character favouritism, shameless pandering and just phoning it in.

That's exactly it. Freeza is a "safe" option in every sense of the word, and it's telling that he's either mentioned or part of every arc in Super except the Trunks arc (I think?). If BoG was a step forward, RoF began a massive step back.

I really don't get Toriyama's new found fascination with Freeza. He had the perfect send-off for him in the manga, but nowadays, Freeza is bound to be brought up or have an active role in a storyline if Toriyama is the one writing it. The only storyline in modern Dragon Ball (everything from Battle Of Gods to now) that Freeza was M.I.A in was the Future Trunks arc.

[Super Murjin]

I'm glad Frieza came back, he's Dragon ball's Joker. I don't like how Super explained how he got more powerful. I think they should have made him train in the vacuum of space, maybe flying to planets with extreme high gravity and training there. Him training with Tagoma was goofy. Even though it was very vague i prefer what the Super manga and Resurrection F movie did.....keeping it a mystery is much better than the dumb Tagoma explanation. I was cool seeing Frieza team up with Goku and the rest of Universe 7 to fight in the TOP and then having him return yet again in the Broly film. I kinda hope we don't see Cell return, no need.

[The Undying]

I don't like how Super explained how he got more powerful.

To be frank, I don't really take issue with how the movie explained it. Freeza is a freak of nature who was pushing nine figures of power levels with just his natural untrained strength, so it makes sense he'd skyrocket to god tiers even with only a few months of real training. This is all in-character because he hates having to exert himself.

The film itself is fine. It's no Battle of Gods, but the tone, dialogue and character analysis is solid Toriyama. I'd watch it any day of the week over the 90's Z movies.

[Melee_Sovereign]

a mortal with normal ki, was able to overpower, even a stronger version of Super Saiyan God, (SSGSS!)

To be fair, you can complain about the same thing with Hit, Toppo (well maybe not Toppo), Jiren, Broly, Moro etc...

The only way to avoid the problem you point out is to never make another mortal antagonist again.

[Matches Malone]

I'm glad Frieza came back, he's Dragon ball's Joker.

Dragon Ball was nothing like Batman to say Freeza was its Joker. Freeza wasn't the first or even 5th main villain Goku fought, and after he was dead, things just kept moving on as usual. Freeza was nothing special in the original manga, unlike Joker.

[Psajdak]

I think people here underestimate how big of a thing is nostagia, and tradition in Japan...
Why do you think there are so many decades long franchises?

I have no problems with Freeza being brought back, and for the most part he was one of the most entertaining characters in this current DB era.

Wouldn't mind if Cell would also be brought back, since he was fine in FighterZ.

[Matches Malone]

I think people here underestimate how big of a thing is nostagia, and tradition in Japan...

For the most part he was one of the most entertaining characters in this current DB era.

I understand that when a franchise as big as DB is brought back after so long, nostalgia is going to play a role in it, but the problem here is that nostalgia has taken over the franchise. The issue isn't just the nostalgic elements, it's how bad they've been handled. If you're going to bring back classic elements, at least do it right, that way it covers up the fact that your franchise is creatively bankrupt.

Apart from the tournament, he's been written extremely bad, as both RF and Broly turned him into an incompetent joke.

[GodVegetto91]

a mortal with normal ki, was able to overpower, even a stronger version of Super Saiyan God, (SSGSS!)

To be fair, you can complain about the same thing with Hit, Toppo (well maybe not Toppo), Jiren, Broly, Moro etc...

The only way to avoid the problem you point out is to never make another mortal antagonist again.

Uhm... These are exactly all the things I have been saying in my posts this week..

[FortuneSSJ]

Anime ToP made it worth it. Toei wrote his character better than Toriyama ever did and I couldn't get enough of him

[Sadala Elite]

I'm glad Frieza came back, he's Dragon ball's Joker.

Dragon Ball was nothing like Batman to say Freeza was its Joker. Freeza wasn't the first or even 5th main villain Goku fought, and after he was dead, things just kept moving on as usual. Freeza was nothing special in the original manga, unlike Joker.

Freeza is Dragonball's greatest and most impactful villain in the entire franchise. Even before RoF, Freeza was generally viewed & treated in Japan and in the wider franchise in general as the "Joker" of Dragonball, the archnemesis that has/had a bigger impact on the hero and series than any other antagonist. He's basically (in-universe) the reason why the story of Dragonball even happened in the 1st place. No other villain has as much built-in narrative importance as Freeza and is a big part of why many view the Namek saga as the peak of franchise.

The idea of bringing Freeza (or any other major villain) back isn't inherently a problem as him being around and relevant again actually opens up a lot of great story opportunities for Super, but Revival of F sucked hard lmao. ToP Freeza was awesome though.

[Sadala Elite]

Anime ToP made it worth it. Toei wrote his character better than Toriyama ever did and I couldn't get enough of him

This also applies to DBZ, as Freeza was better portrayed in the Z/Kai anime than he was in the OG manga (Ryusei Nakao helps a lot).

[Matches Malone]

Freeza is Dragonball's greatest and most impactful villain in the entire franchise.

I agree, but to say he's the franchise's joker is saying he was the central villain of the original story, which he wasn't. He showed up and died in the same arc. He was never seen before or after. DB doesn't have a "joker" type character.

[Block88]

Yes he shouldn’t been brought back in the first place
He served his purpose in z who cares about him being treated as a joke since then Dragon ball is practically The rules of nature on the next baddie.

Him coming back practically started the nostalgia pandering non sensical power ups that plagued the series and reduced GoD Ki to the joke that it is now