Is Moro Less Of A Character And More Of A Response By The Author?

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

Moderators: Kanzenshuu Staff, General Help

theherodjl
I'm pretty cozy, here...
Posts: 1598
Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2015 10:12 pm
Location: The Planes of Lexington

Is Moro Less Of A Character And More Of A Response By The Author?

Post by theherodjl » Wed Jul 22, 2020 2:06 pm

With Moro's track record of consistently getting the upper hand on the heroes, do you suppose that Moro was intentionally made that way to dispel any notion that Goku & Vegeta were going to defeat the latest villain with more training & transformation hijinx? Because it certainly seems like Toyotaro & Toriyama are giving a huge FU to the fans that have gripes with how the main characters pull out convenient power ups out of their butts...by having a villain that does the same thing. Moro doesn't have much motivation as a villain(or a character) aside from simply being one for the sake of evil and his goal of becoming more powerful is for the same reason. He's a bland character that also happens to be an avatar of unstoppable evil...because the author(s) just want him to be?
"Why is a raven like a writing desk?" - The Mad Hatter :think:

User avatar
SupremeKai25
I Live Here
Posts: 2006
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:40 am

Re: Is Moro Less Of A Character And More Of A Response By The Author?

Post by SupremeKai25 » Wed Jul 22, 2020 2:50 pm

He's very strong but he doesn't seem unstoppable. I'm pretty sure they'll find a way to beat him and save the universe. His magic and copy techniques make him very deadly but not invincible. He doesn't have, for example, immortality, an actual op hax that has no counters.

If you mean he's special because he turned the tables on the protagonists, that's the track record of Super antagonists. Beerus, Freeza, Zamasu, I'd say even Jiren, all managed to turn the tables in their favour.
The power coursing through me is exceptional, glorious, absolute! Stare in awe, I am justice incarnate!

User avatar
Polyphase Avatron
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 6049
Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2013 10:48 am

Re: Is Moro Less Of A Character And More Of A Response By The Author?

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Wed Jul 22, 2020 4:13 pm

SupremeKai25 wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 2:50 pm
He's very strong but he doesn't seem unstoppable. I'm pretty sure they'll find a way to beat him and save the universe. His magic and copy techniques make him very deadly but not invincible. He doesn't have, for example, immortality, an actual op hax that has no counters/
Mafuba?
Cool stuff that I upload here because Youtube will copyright claim it: https://vimeo.com/user60967147

User avatar
Magnificent Ponta
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 169
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2020 2:25 pm
Location: Not on Tumblr, I guess

Re: Is Moro Less Of A Character And More Of A Response By The Author?

Post by Magnificent Ponta » Wed Jul 22, 2020 4:43 pm

I get the impression that Moro is less of a response to anything, and more like the latest exemplar of a particular type of villain that we've already seen in Dragon Ball.

To my mind, Moro is specifically taken from the same basic pattern as Piccolo Daimao, in that he's an ancient, mysterious evil with monstrous, invincible power, who had to be sealed away for the greater good but is now released and restored to his true 'glory' (and beyond, in this instance). Even his overwhelming might and the apparent hopelessness of the heroes' cause seems to be taken directly from the pattern set by Piccolo Daimao, even if the specific twists and turns in this story are unique.

It's this sort of pattern that gives me the impression that Moro may well be designed to have a more far-reaching impact on the overall status quo than just being a villain/antagonist with a self-contained arc, just like Piccolo had a bigger impact on Dragon Ball (I've speculated in the manga thread that he might become a God of Destruction, for example) - to be honest, I'd be quite surprised if he were beaten straight-up within the next few chapters.

User avatar
FortuneSSJ
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 5362
Joined: Sat Mar 30, 2013 9:07 pm
Location: Portugal

Re: Is Moro Less Of A Character And More Of A Response By The Author?

Post by FortuneSSJ » Wed Jul 22, 2020 5:46 pm

theherodjl wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 2:06 pm
Moro doesn't have much motivation as a villain(or a character) aside from simply being one for the sake of evil
With the exception of Zamasu and Baby, all the villains of this franchise are like that.
A world without Dragon Ball is just meh.

User avatar
UpFromTheSkies
I'm pretty cozy, here...
Posts: 1752
Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2012 8:05 pm

Re: Is Moro Less Of A Character And More Of A Response By The Author?

Post by UpFromTheSkies » Wed Jul 22, 2020 8:04 pm

theherodjl wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 2:06 pm
With Moro's track record of consistently getting the upper hand on the heroes, do you suppose that Moro was intentionally made that way to dispel any notion that Goku & Vegeta were going to defeat the latest villain with more training & transformation hijinx? Because it certainly seems like Toyotaro & Toriyama are giving a huge FU to the fans that have gripes with how the main characters pull out convenient power ups out of their butts...by having a villain that does the same thing.
Hasn't almost every Dragon Ball villian done this exact same thing?
Moro doesn't have much motivation as a villain(or a character) aside from simply being one for the sake of evil and his goal of becoming more powerful is for the same reason. He's a bland character that also happens to be an avatar of unstoppable evil...because the author(s) just want him to be?
His motivation is hunger, he's like Galactus

User avatar
Grimlock
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 6263
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2016 4:11 pm
Location: Conton City

Re: Is Moro Less Of A Character And More Of A Response By The Author?

Post by Grimlock » Wed Jul 22, 2020 10:08 pm

Only he isn't as epic as Galactus and Unicron, nor he eats planets like them for that matter. His hunger can be satisfied with a cookie or whatever a goat eats.

User avatar
UpFromTheSkies
I'm pretty cozy, here...
Posts: 1752
Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2012 8:05 pm

Re: Is Moro Less Of A Character And More Of A Response By The Author?

Post by UpFromTheSkies » Wed Jul 22, 2020 10:59 pm

Grimlock wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 10:08 pm
Only he isn't as epic as Galactus and Unicron, nor he eats planets like them for that matter. His hunger can be satisfied with a cookie or whatever a goat eats.
Yeah he just eats the souls of entire civilizations

User avatar
Matches Malone
I'm pretty cozy, here...
Posts: 1982
Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2020 3:12 am

Re: Is Moro Less Of A Character And More Of A Response By The Author?

Post by Matches Malone » Thu Jul 23, 2020 3:13 am

I would've agreed with this last month, but with Dende showing up to heal Goku and Vegeta, I think it's too early to rule them out.

User avatar
mute_proxy
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1147
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2017 11:09 am
Location: Planet 4032-877

Re: Is Moro Less Of A Character And More Of A Response By The Author?

Post by mute_proxy » Thu Jul 23, 2020 3:34 am

FortuneSSJ wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 5:46 pm
With the exception of Zamasu and Baby, all the villains of this franchise are like that.
I disagree with that one. Freeza was driven by greed and his ego, Cell wanted to be the strongest and fight the strongest, Buu was destroying things because that's his nature, Vegeta and co. were warriors and did Freeza's bidding. I can only remember Piccolo being evil for the sake of being evil, because he's the evil half.

User avatar
GodVegetto91
I Live Here
Posts: 2198
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2015 12:49 pm

Re: Is Moro Less Of A Character And More Of A Response By The Author?

Post by GodVegetto91 » Thu Jul 23, 2020 9:21 am

I mean, if Immortal Future Zamasu and Kid Buu were still alive, he should’ve totally grabbed THEIR necks and copied them!
“The fool looks to God outside him. The wise understands that God is within him.”

User avatar
GodVegetto91
I Live Here
Posts: 2198
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2015 12:49 pm

Re: Is Moro Less Of A Character And More Of A Response By The Author?

Post by GodVegetto91 » Thu Jul 23, 2020 9:23 am

mute_proxy wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 3:34 am
FortuneSSJ wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 5:46 pm
With the exception of Zamasu and Baby, all the villains of this franchise are like that.
I disagree with that one. Freeza was driven by greed and his ego, Cell wanted to be the strongest and fight the strongest, Buu was destroying things because that's his nature, Vegeta and co. were warriors and did Freeza's bidding. I can only remember Piccolo being evil for the sake of being evil, because he's the evil half.
Freeza being driven by his greed and ego is NOT a good excuse and doesn’t exempt him from whatever it is you guys are talking about. That same argument could be made for King Piccolo.
“The fool looks to God outside him. The wise understands that God is within him.”

User avatar
mute_proxy
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1147
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2017 11:09 am
Location: Planet 4032-877

Re: Is Moro Less Of A Character And More Of A Response By The Author?

Post by mute_proxy » Thu Jul 23, 2020 9:36 am

GodVegetto91 wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 9:23 am
Freeza being driven by his greed and ego is NOT a good excuse and doesn’t exempt him from whatever it is you guys are talking about. That same argument could be made for King Piccolo.
It is a good excuse, considering he's an emperor with a status to hold. Freeza's evil but not just for the sake of it.

theherodjl
I'm pretty cozy, here...
Posts: 1598
Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2015 10:12 pm
Location: The Planes of Lexington

Re: Is Moro Less Of A Character And More Of A Response By The Author?

Post by theherodjl » Thu Jul 23, 2020 12:33 pm

UpFromTheSkies wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 8:04 pm
His motivation is hunger, he's like Galactus
I used to think that back when the arc had just begun. However, Moro revealed a couple chapters ago that he doesn't feed for survival reasons but for the pleasure of it. The fact that the action satiates his bodily needs and adds to his power is just a fringe benefit. Compared to Galactus, Moro is just a sick bastard who enjoys absorbing life energy because he can, not because he needs to. Moro's "motivation" is purely for the evulz instead of anything meaningful or original.
"Why is a raven like a writing desk?" - The Mad Hatter :think:

User avatar
GodVegetto91
I Live Here
Posts: 2198
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2015 12:49 pm

Re: Is Moro Less Of A Character And More Of A Response By The Author?

Post by GodVegetto91 » Thu Jul 23, 2020 1:40 pm

mute_proxy wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 9:36 am
GodVegetto91 wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 9:23 am
Freeza being driven by his greed and ego is NOT a good excuse and doesn’t exempt him from whatever it is you guys are talking about. That same argument could be made for King Piccolo.
It is a good excuse, considering he's an emperor with a status to hold. Freeza's evil but not just for the sake of it.
No it’s not. Killing, torturing and enslaving people “to boost your ego and pride” is an incredibly unneccesary, unempathic, and selfish thing to do. Same argument could be made for King Piccolo. He was no different.

The only character that could possibly be “excused” for his horrible actions is Pure Boo. Since he’s, well, you know, a MINDLESS killing machine, that can’t control himself and cannot be reasoned with at all. Like a braindead zombie that attacks anything in its side, exactly as it’s programmed to do. It’s not his fault. He’s powerless over his own actions.
“The fool looks to God outside him. The wise understands that God is within him.”

User avatar
Magnificent Ponta
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 169
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2020 2:25 pm
Location: Not on Tumblr, I guess

Re: Is Moro Less Of A Character And More Of A Response By The Author?

Post by Magnificent Ponta » Thu Jul 23, 2020 2:31 pm

theherodjl wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 12:33 pm
UpFromTheSkies wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 8:04 pm
His motivation is hunger, he's like Galactus
I used to think that back when the arc had just begun. However, Moro revealed a couple chapters ago that he doesn't feed for survival reasons but for the pleasure of it. The fact that the action satiates his bodily needs and adds to his power is just a fringe benefit. Compared to Galactus, Moro is just a sick bastard who enjoys absorbing life energy because he can, not because he needs to. Moro's "motivation" is purely for the evulz instead of anything meaningful or original.
I'm afraid I can't find anything to back that up - in fact, he says in Chapter 59 that he only absorbs energy to fill his stomach, and adding to his power and weakening his foes are the fringe benefits. Gohan notes in Chapter 57 that Moro's ki feels pure evil because it's like the screaming of dying people (backing up something Goku says earlier), but I don't see anything that says Moro's just doing what he's doing for fun (though he's clearly enjoying himself, at least most of the time).

This seems in keeping with a creature who sees everyone and everything as a meal (and he mentions several times that the whole point of coming to Earth was just to feast by absorbing the energy of strong beings there); he also has the aspiration of "ruling over the galaxy for all eternity", but it's just "an ideal galaxy where I am free to consume planets as I wish". I don't think Moro has a goal that isn't in some way linked to just eating .

User avatar
UpFromTheSkies
I'm pretty cozy, here...
Posts: 1752
Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2012 8:05 pm

Re: Is Moro Less Of A Character And More Of A Response By The Author?

Post by UpFromTheSkies » Thu Jul 23, 2020 7:42 pm

theherodjl wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 12:33 pm
UpFromTheSkies wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 8:04 pm
His motivation is hunger, he's like Galactus
I used to think that back when the arc had just begun. However, Moro revealed a couple chapters ago that he doesn't feed for survival reasons but for the pleasure of it. The fact that the action satiates his bodily needs and adds to his power is just a fringe benefit. Compared to Galactus, Moro is just a sick bastard who enjoys absorbing life energy because he can, not because he needs to. Moro's "motivation" is purely for the evulz instead of anything meaningful or original.
He might enjoy doing it, but when Vegeta separated those souls from Moro he reverted back to his frail, deathly looking self, so it seems he does need them to maintain his powerful, youthful self.

theherodjl
I'm pretty cozy, here...
Posts: 1598
Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2015 10:12 pm
Location: The Planes of Lexington

Re: Is Moro Less Of A Character And More Of A Response By The Author?

Post by theherodjl » Fri Jul 24, 2020 1:25 am

Magnificent Ponta wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 2:31 pm
I'm afraid I can't find anything to back that up - in fact, he says in Chapter 59 that he only absorbs energy to fill his stomach, and adding to his power and weakening his foes are the fringe benefits. Gohan notes in Chapter 57 that Moro's ki feels pure evil because it's like the screaming of dying people (backing up something Goku says earlier), but I don't see anything that says Moro's just doing what he's doing for fun (though he's clearly enjoying himself, at least most of the time).

This seems in keeping with a creature who sees everyone and everything as a meal (and he mentions several times that the whole point of coming to Earth was just to feast by absorbing the energy of strong beings there); he also has the aspiration of "ruling over the galaxy for all eternity", but it's just "an ideal galaxy where I am free to consume planets as I wish". I don't think Moro has a goal that isn't in some way linked to just eating .
The thing is, we don't actually know if Moro even needs to eat people to fill his stomach. He hasn't revealed that he has any such condition, whether its simply part of his nature or something he acquired, that would require him to consume the life energy of beings & worlds(like Galactus). He stated on Namek after grabbing Esca, that the boy was his "long awaited meal". Apparently, Moro hadn't consumed anyone during his ten million-year stay in the Galactic Patrol's prison. This suggests that he just eats people for the fun of it.
"Why is a raven like a writing desk?" - The Mad Hatter :think:

theherodjl
I'm pretty cozy, here...
Posts: 1598
Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2015 10:12 pm
Location: The Planes of Lexington

Re: Is Moro Less Of A Character And More Of A Response By The Author?

Post by theherodjl » Fri Jul 24, 2020 1:57 am

UpFromTheSkies wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 7:42 pm
He might enjoy doing it, but when Vegeta separated those souls from Moro he reverted back to his frail, deathly looking self, so it seems he does need them to maintain his powerful, youthful self.
That just ties into the fact that Moro wants to remain young & alive so that he can continue to terrorize the universe...because that's an evil thing to do and he likes being evil.
"Why is a raven like a writing desk?" - The Mad Hatter :think:

User avatar
Magnificent Ponta
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 169
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2020 2:25 pm
Location: Not on Tumblr, I guess

Re: Is Moro Less Of A Character And More Of A Response By The Author?

Post by Magnificent Ponta » Fri Jul 24, 2020 4:40 pm

theherodjl wrote:
Fri Jul 24, 2020 1:25 am
The thing is, we don't actually know if Moro even needs to eat people to fill his stomach. He hasn't revealed that he has any such condition, whether its simply part of his nature or something he acquired, that would require him to consume the life energy of beings & worlds(like Galactus). He stated on Namek after grabbing Esca, that the boy was his "long awaited meal". Apparently, Moro hadn't consumed anyone during his ten million-year stay in the Galactic Patrol's prison. This suggests that he just eats people for the fun of it.
Well, we don't know what Moro really needs to stay alive at all, so it's hard to draw conclusions from that - for example, his massive longevity without eating could conceivably have come from all the energy of the 320 planets he'd consumed prior to his imprisonment.

What we can say is that currently, Moro is definitely consuming energy way beyond his need right now - he's gorging, essentially, and consequently is "building up [his] energy reserves".

But then again, when everyone and everything is a meal, what else is worth doing but eating?

Post Reply