Why Did Vegeta Fail To Lift Magetta?

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Why Did Vegeta Fail To Lift Magetta?

Post by theherodjl » Sat Jul 25, 2020 6:35 pm

I'm truly curious.

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Since when was 1,000 tons too heavy for SSJ Goku & Vegeta to lift? Goku effortlessly lifted 40 tons as a SSJ in the Boo arc. Now that both Saiyans had gotten massive boosts to all of their forms as a result of obtaining Godly power and a few more years of intense training, why would they still be struggling so much with such numbers? Even if Magetta weighed 2,000-3,000 tons, is that still too much for SSJs of this caliber to lift even slightly?
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Re: Why Did Vegeta Fail To Lift Magetta?

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Sat Jul 25, 2020 7:10 pm

Inconsistencies exist in fiction.
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Re: Why Did Vegeta Fail To Lift Magetta?

Post by Koitsukai » Sat Jul 25, 2020 7:20 pm

I guess it implies U6 SS Vegeta isn't much stronger than Buu arc SS Goku that lifted 40 tons. We don't know if Goku could've lifted 100 tons as SS back then, but if that was his max, then they are less than 10x stronger by the U6 arc.

The power of the saiyans being still within the Buu arc realm is true for the manga, while for the anime it could be just another inconsistency.

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Re: Why Did Vegeta Fail To Lift Magetta?

Post by ankokudaishogun » Sat Jul 25, 2020 8:04 pm

theherodjl wrote:
Sat Jul 25, 2020 6:35 pm
Now that both Saiyans had gotten massive boosts to all of their forms as a result of obtaining Godly power
Not a thing in the manga

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Re: Why Did Vegeta Fail To Lift Magetta?

Post by Dragon Wukong » Sat Jul 25, 2020 9:13 pm

What Koitsukai said. The implication after the Res F seems to be that their Super Saiyan forms are in the same realm of power as they had been in the past. With minor examples of Toei scaling (like Vegeta knocking out SS3 Gotenks in one attack) just being a thing because it's the same as the Z anime (where base Vegeta also took down SS3 Gotenks.)

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Re: Why Did Vegeta Fail To Lift Magetta?

Post by GodVegetto91 » Sat Jul 25, 2020 9:21 pm

Because Magetta used his own power/energy/force to make it harder for Vegeta to lift. Easy answer that makes the most sense. Even a light weighted person can make himself heavier for others to lift through using effort/ki.
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Re: Why Did Vegeta Fail To Lift Magetta?

Post by Dragon Wukong » Sat Jul 25, 2020 9:23 pm

GodVegetto91 wrote:
Sat Jul 25, 2020 9:21 pm
Because Magetta used his own power/energy/force to make it harder for Vegeta to lift. Easy answer that makes the most sense. Even a light weighted person can make himself heavier for others to lift through using effort/ki.
Well, it is pretty implicit that it's not Magetta doing anything. Based on everyone's reactions he's just legitimately that heavy.

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Re: Why Did Vegeta Fail To Lift Magetta?

Post by Thani » Sat Jul 25, 2020 10:27 pm

Magetta is just that heavy. That was the explanation given, not that he was resisting Vegeta or anything.

It's pretty straight-forward, it just seems weird because we have this weird idea that our boys are galaxy destroyers in base or something.

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Re: Why Did Vegeta Fail To Lift Magetta?

Post by Dragon Wukong » Sat Jul 25, 2020 11:08 pm

Mind you, it could just be that god-tiers aren't necessarily that physically strong. You also have Kale in the manga (who was able to toss around Golden Frieza) briefly struggling to pick up Magetta. Granted she immediately holds him up with a single hand and tosses him out the ring, it's still treated as something impressive by the stands.

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Re: Why Did Vegeta Fail To Lift Magetta?

Post by Tai Lung » Sat Jul 25, 2020 11:45 pm

Koitsukai wrote:
Sat Jul 25, 2020 7:20 pm
I guess it implies U6 SS Vegeta isn't much stronger than Buu arc SS Goku that lifted 40 tons. We don't know if Goku could've lifted 100 tons as SS back then, but if that was his max, then they are less than 10x stronger by the U6 arc.

The power of the saiyans being still within the Buu arc realm is true for the manga, while for the anime it could be just another inconsistency.
vegeta is stronger than trunks but trunks is stronger than goku ssj3

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Re: Why Did Vegeta Fail To Lift Magetta?

Post by Thani » Sat Jul 25, 2020 11:47 pm

It *can* also mean that physical strength may vary between characters, despite being a little inconsistent with how the power system is supposed to work.

But also, when Kale did that she was in the same ballpark of power as the Blues, much stronger than Vegeta as a Super Saiyan. That could explain it, too.

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Re: Why Did Vegeta Fail To Lift Magetta?

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Sun Jul 26, 2020 3:23 am

Thani wrote:
Sat Jul 25, 2020 10:27 pm
Magetta is just that heavy. That was the explanation given, not that he was resisting Vegeta or anything.

It's pretty straight-forward, it just seems weird because we have this weird idea that our boys are galaxy destroyers in base or something.
People are going to just have to face the fact that they are as strong (or as weak) as the plot needs them to be in any given circumstance.
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Re: Why Did Vegeta Fail To Lift Magetta?

Post by Zelvin » Sun Jul 26, 2020 6:43 pm

My understanding is that Vegeta was just dicking around. He wasn't being serious. He was trying to show as little of his strength and power as possible so he could surprise the top dog of U6, Hit. His plan didn't work because Hit was far stronger than Vegeta could detect. Magetta's mass was also never mentioned in the anime. It's strictly a Manga thing and Toyotaro doesn't understand how strong the cast is.

People do recall Ep3 of the anime, yes? What was Goku doing?
Image
Each of those plates is easily more than a thousand tons. Add in the fact it's on King Kai's planet, so 10x that value. What Goku is benching along is easily over 60,000tons. That is a low-ball estimate. That is not counting the weighted blocks Goku and Vegeta had to lift in order to move forward on that disappearing path while training under Whis. Despite their relatively small size, those blocks far exceed even what Goku was benching above as they both struggled just to get them a few inches off the ground.

Just a few examples in their bases now it's easy to conclude that Goku and Vegeta can lift millions of tons, if not more. These are still low estimates. As we get to their training in those sumo suits, those suits were so dense and so heavy, that in the anime, when they were dropped onto the ground they began burrowing through the ground. And continued to do so until they were out of earshot. That would indicate those suits have the mass of large islands or small continents in order to have that kind of an effect.

So the only reasons why Vegeta wouldn't be able to life Magetta are;
A) He's faking it to hide his strength
B) Magetta has the mass of a Planet.

So Magetta being said to only be 1000tons in the Manga is Toyotaro being completely oblivious to how strong Goku and co are. After all, even ignoring their lifting strength, these guys can punch hard enough to sink islands and destroy mountains. Objects that range in the hundreds of millions tons at minimum, to tens of trillions of tons. So I would say again. Unless Magetta actually possesses the mass of an entire planet, then a single serious punch from Vegeta should send him hurtling off the stage.
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Re: Why Did Vegeta Fail To Lift Magetta?

Post by Peach » Sun Jul 26, 2020 7:58 pm

The writers don't put a lot of thought into their numbers.

They also said there's 24 planets left in the universe.

And one of the first things Frieza said when he got revived was training to get a power level of 1.3 million lol.

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Re: Why Did Vegeta Fail To Lift Magetta?

Post by Thani » Sun Jul 26, 2020 8:23 pm

As Peach said, the writers don't put that much thought on things. Vegeta landed a lot of serious punches on Magetta. They did squat. He went for a fully charged Final Flash - Magetta countered with lava, and it worked.

Don't overthink stuff.

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Re: Why Did Vegeta Fail To Lift Magetta?

Post by theherodjl » Mon Jul 27, 2020 12:32 am

Zelvin wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 6:43 pm
My understanding is that Vegeta was just dicking around. He wasn't being serious. He was trying to show as little of his strength and power as possible so he could surprise the top dog of U6, Hit. His plan didn't work because Hit was far stronger than Vegeta could detect. Magetta's mass was also never mentioned in the anime. It's strictly a Manga thing and Toyotaro doesn't understand how strong the cast is.

People do recall Ep3 of the anime, yes? What was Goku doing?
Image
Each of those plates is easily more than a thousand tons. Add in the fact it's on King Kai's planet, so 10x that value. What Goku is benching along is easily over 60,000tons. That is a low-ball estimate. That is not counting the weighted blocks Goku and Vegeta had to lift in order to move forward on that disappearing path while training under Whis. Despite their relatively small size, those blocks far exceed even what Goku was benching above as they both struggled just to get them a few inches off the ground.

Just a few examples in their bases now it's easy to conclude that Goku and Vegeta can lift millions of tons, if not more. These are still low estimates. As we get to their training in those sumo suits, those suits were so dense and so heavy, that in the anime, when they were dropped onto the ground they began burrowing through the ground. And continued to do so until they were out of earshot. That would indicate those suits have the mass of large islands or small continents in order to have that kind of an effect.

So the only reasons why Vegeta wouldn't be able to life Magetta are;
A) He's faking it to hide his strength
B) Magetta has the mass of a Planet.

So Magetta being said to only be 1000tons in the Manga is Toyotaro being completely oblivious to how strong Goku and co are. After all, even ignoring their lifting strength, these guys can punch hard enough to sink islands and destroy mountains. Objects that range in the hundreds of millions tons at minimum, to tens of trillions of tons. So I would say again. Unless Magetta actually possesses the mass of an entire planet, then a single serious punch from Vegeta should send him hurtling off the stage.
If Magetta had the mass of a planet then why would Beerus mention such a lowball figure as 1,000 tons or somewhere over 1,000 tons to describe Magetta's weight? It'd be like saying that a whale weighs more than one gram. Using insignificant numbers to describe an object far, far larger is totally redundant, especially from a divine being.
There's also the issue of Magetta sinking into the surface of the nameless planet if he weighs less than it and altering the gravity around it if he weighs more. He didn't do either so evidently, Magetta is 1,000 tons or somewhere over it.
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Re: Why Did Vegeta Fail To Lift Magetta?

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Mon Jul 27, 2020 12:51 am

theherodjl wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 12:32 am
If Magetta had the mass of a planet then why would Beerus mention such a lowball figure as 1,000 tons or somewhere over 1,000 tons to describe Magetta's weight? It'd be like saying that a whale weighs more than one gram. Using insignificant numbers to describe an object far, far larger is totally redundant, especially from a divine being.
There's also the issue of Magetta sinking into the surface of the nameless planet if he weighs less than it and altering the gravity around it if he weighs more. He didn't do either so evidently, Magetta is 1,000 tons or somewhere over it.
While I agree that it would make no sense for him to be as massive as a planet (if he was, everything around him would be pulled into a giant ball with him at the center), the 1000 tons figure also seems inconsistent.
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Re: Why Did Vegeta Fail To Lift Magetta?

Post by PerhapsTheOtherOne » Mon Jul 27, 2020 8:02 am

It's the disconnect between the power to blow up a planet and lifting weights that really makes things odd.

Even base form Freeza was shown to be able to blow up Earth simply by slapping it with some actual effort. And these guys can also survive planets exploding, again like Freeza and the fact that Freeza was relying on him being able to survive in the vacuum of space.

Even if you take a more modest interpretation of strength from the manga, Super Saiyan Vegeta should still easily be in the same range or stronger than said base form Freeza.

To be able to destroy something as measly as a planet in this series requires immense strength; it's just odd that that doesn't correlate with lifting strength, an issue that the anime actually doesn't have because it has many scenes of Goku and the like casually lifting massive weights that make sense with their enormous Ki-amplified strength.

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Re: Why Did Vegeta Fail To Lift Magetta?

Post by Jiren The Alpha » Mon Jul 27, 2020 8:24 am

Because Toyataro fail in being a good writer.

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Re: Why Did Vegeta Fail To Lift Magetta?

Post by Hugo Boss » Mon Jul 27, 2020 9:17 am

I think they didn’t care about proper representation of weight either in the anime or in the manga. It’s just to give you the sense that Magetta is quite heavy. And to illustrate how far Kale is from Super Saiyan Vegeta maybe.

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