The Vegeta redevelopment and Moro arc highlights why the story staying in U7 is causing it to suffer

[DevilKing99]

I myself think this arc has been good, but it's obvious why I see people are saying they are bored.

It's because you can't develop characters that already been developed in the 90s and 80s.

Focus on Gohan Training again? That been arc has been done two times in the 90s.

Vegeta becoming a hero? Was done in the 90s, that's why I see on this place and DBZ Reddit people going WTF, whenever it's been said in the Moro arc that he's a villain.

Goku is a static character on purpose and is too iconic to change anyways, and that goes for most of the main U7 cast.

We're still stuck in the same places as we were in the 80s and 90s which means not much character development or world building can occur since were still in U7.

There are three ways this can be fixed:

1. Uub and the next-gen, but this means retiring Vegeta and Goku, it would solve the character development problem but it wouldn't solve the world-building problem because we would still be stuck on Earth sadly. Uub's entire thing is the guardian of Earth.

2. U11 and the Pride Troopers, You can create an infinite amount of character to follow and develop here as they are a massive organization that goes the entirety of U11 protecting it from demons and villains, Jiren wants to defeat a demon that killed his master after all, which means U11 Demons are a thing.

3. U6 and Planet Sadala, a planet filled with Saiyans, I shouldn't even have to explain the endless potential for new stories this has.

[TheSaiyanGod]

There is nothing wrong with delving a little deeper into Vegeta's remorse for his past actions and creating an arc of redemption for him. That's not bad Vegeta becoming good Vegeta again, it's just exploiting the guilt he still feels for what he did to the Namekians after many years.

And just like what Piccolo said about Vegeta not being someone who misread the opponent's strength, I think the "I'm a villain" line is not as bad as DB fandom made it seem.

[DevilKing99]

There is nothing wrong with delving a little deeper into Vegeta's remorse for his past actions and creating an arc of redemption for him. That's not bad Vegeta becoming good Vegeta again, it's just exploiting the guilt he still feels for what he did to the Namekians after many years.

And just like what Piccolo said about Vegeta not being someone who misread the opponent's strength, I think the "I'm a villain" line is not as bad as DB fandom made it seem.

I actually agree, but for some people, it's like redevelopment.

I wonder what they are going to do for the next arc? Outside of Broly and Uub/next-gen I don't see any of the U7 characters can get more development. And next-gen is pretty much out of the question because Goku and Vegeta just got new forms in Heroes, and they wrote Goten and Trunks out of this arc entirely, they haven't appeared in a panel lol.

[Peach]

I find the universes and universe hopping to be a little confusing. I don't see why they can't do new stories in their own universe?

[DevilKing99]

I find the universes and universe hopping to be a little confusing. I don't see why they can't do new stories in their own universe?

Every story besides arc Champa and the Top arc have taken place in U7.

They can keep making stories in U7 as long as they like, but sadly no development or world building is going to happen though.

[Skar]

I do agree there's little to no new development but a fourth option might be more likely: ending the series after it finally reaches EoZ. The three options seem unlikely to happen because DB has mainly been Goku's story. The most we've had without him were the TV specials and two of them were about his identical looking relatives and the other was about the future after his death. If we ever get another story without Goku, it would probably be a short spinoff or mini-saga like Garlic Jr and the Yamcha Reincarnation story.

[Peach]

I do agree there's little to no new development but a fourth option might be more likely: ending the series after it finally reaches EoZ. The three options seem unlikely to happen because DB has mainly been Goku's story. The most we've had without him were the TV specials and two of them were about his identical looking relatives and the other was about the future after his death. If we ever get another story without Goku, it would probably be a short spinoff or mini-saga like Garlic Jr and the Yamcha Reincarnation story.

I hope Dragon Ball Z eventually becomes like Lupin the Third. Television specials and movies for the most part. I don't think tv shows and ongoing manga work well for this franchise anymore.

[Skar]

I hope Dragon Ball Z eventually becomes like Lupin the Third. Television specials and movies for the most part. I don't think tv shows and ongoing manga work well for this franchise anymore.

I hope for that as well. Toriyama's outlines seem to be pretty short so I think they work best for movies. They would also feel more coherent since they would have fewer writers (Toriyama and someone from the Dragon Room?) and not need to be stretched out to reach a certain number of episodes.

[Magnificent Ponta]

I do agree there's little to no new development but a fourth option might be more likely: ending the series after it finally reaches EoZ. The three options seem unlikely to happen because DB has mainly been Goku's story. The most we've had without him were the TV specials and two of them were about his identical looking relatives and the other was about the future after his death. If we ever get another story without Goku, it would probably be a short spinoff or mini-saga like Garlic Jr and the Yamcha Reincarnation story.

I'd enjoy some one-shot/mini-series spin-offs telling us about the lives and maybe some independent adventures of some of the other heroes, like the Humans. I think events have passed them by far too much for them to justifiably take up much space in the main storyline, for however long that continues (hence the criticisms that have been levelled at Chapters 56 - 57), but I think some side-story specials would be pretty cool.

[DevilKing99]

I do agree there's little to no new development but a fourth option might be more likely: ending the series after it finally reaches EoZ. The three options seem unlikely to happen because DB has mainly been Goku's story. The most we've had without him were the TV specials and two of them were about his identical looking relatives and the other was about the future after his death. If we ever get another story without Goku, it would probably be a short spinoff or mini-saga like Garlic Jr and the Yamcha Reincarnation story.

I'd enjoy some one-shot/mini-series spin-offs telling us about the lives and maybe some independent adventures of some of the other heroes, like the Humans. I think events have passed them by far too much for them to justifiably take up much space in the main storyline, for however long that continues (hence the criticisms that have been levelled at Chapters 56 - 57), but I think some side-story specials would be pretty cool.

Did people really hate chapters 56-57? I remember people being excited to see the Z fighters fight Moro's goons?

[Magnificent Ponta]

I do agree there's little to no new development but a fourth option might be more likely: ending the series after it finally reaches EoZ. The three options seem unlikely to happen because DB has mainly been Goku's story. The most we've had without him were the TV specials and two of them were about his identical looking relatives and the other was about the future after his death. If we ever get another story without Goku, it would probably be a short spinoff or mini-saga like Garlic Jr and the Yamcha Reincarnation story.

I'd enjoy some one-shot/mini-series spin-offs telling us about the lives and maybe some independent adventures of some of the other heroes, like the Humans. I think events have passed them by far too much for them to justifiably take up much space in the main storyline, for however long that continues (hence the criticisms that have been levelled at Chapters 56 - 57), but I think some side-story specials would be pretty cool.

Did people really hate chapters 56-57? I remember people being excited to see the Z fighters fight Moro's goons?

Some were excited by it, but a number of others thought it just wasted time and was pointless fanservice, and pointed to the fact that it just fills pages without really doing anything. You can't please all the people all of the time (or even some of the time - particularly in Super, I guess).

[DevilKing99]

I'd enjoy some one-shot/mini-series spin-offs telling us about the lives and maybe some independent adventures of some of the other heroes, like the Humans. I think events have passed them by far too much for them to justifiably take up much space in the main storyline, for however long that continues (hence the criticisms that have been levelled at Chapters 56 - 57), but I think some side-story specials would be pretty cool.

Did people really hate chapters 56-57? I remember people being excited to see the Z fighters fight Moro's goons?

Some were excited by it, but a number of others thought it just wasted time and was pointless fanservice, and pointed to the fact that it just fills pages without really doing anything. You can't please all the people all of the time (or even some of the time - particularly in Super, I guess).

Honestly, they should just have the new fighters from the other universes replace the old ones, Z already replaced them all anyways with the half Saiyans.

There is to nothing develop from the OG cast, focusing on them is a waste of time. Toriyama even thought so in the 90s, outside of Krillin the only time a Human character did anything during the z outside of the Saiyan saga was Tien attacking Cell.

I just looked back on the chapters, and it seems like a lot of people don't care for the humans at all, I thought people did but it seems not.

Which is already what I kind of thought. There are no heroes versions of any of the humans, Kuririn is the only human character that's has even appeared in the Heroes anime.

Because whenever I ideas for a spin-off toss around I always see it being about the next-gen with Uub, U6 Hit and Saiyans, and U11 Pride Troopers, I rarely see anything concerning any of the humans unless you count Uub who is a Majin reincarnation.

[Tai Lung]

2. U11 and the Pride Troopers, You can create an infinite amount of character to follow and develop here as they are a massive organization that goes the entirety of U11 protecting it from demons and villains, Jiren wants to defeat a demon that killed his master after all, which means U11 Demons are a thing.

3. U6 and Planet Sadala, a planet filled with Saiyans, I shouldn't even have to explain the endless potential for new stories this has.

this is the only thing that mattered but unfortunately it is not happening and I doubt it will happen in the manga

[Kagari]

Honestly, this is why continuing stories way past their expiration date doesn't generally work.

[jjgp1112]

The thing with Vegeta is he never really reckoned with his past actions...he just became a better person and people just shrugged it off. So Vegeta actually trying to redeem his past behavior is a pretty huge step.

I had no problem with Vegeta's "I'm a villain and going to hell speech." A few good years doesn't erase decades of the type of shit Vegeta did—even if Prounga deemed him good.

[BWri]

I'd enjoy some one-shot/mini-series spin-offs telling us about the lives and maybe some independent adventures of some of the other heroes, like the Humans. I think events have passed them by far too much for them to justifiably take up much space in the main storyline, for however long that continues (hence the criticisms that have been levelled at Chapters 56 - 57), but I think some side-story specials would be pretty cool.

Did people really hate chapters 56-57? I remember people being excited to see the Z fighters fight Moro's goons?

Some were excited by it, but a number of others thought it just wasted time and was pointless fanservice, and pointed to the fact that it just fills pages without really doing anything. You can't please all the people all of the time (or even some of the time - particularly in Super, I guess).

A pointless criticism during an invasion arc. The earthlings have shown up to every alien invasion so far. It would be out of character for them to not do so at this point. Funny, I rarely see these people have these same criticisms when Vegeta just ends up fighting the same guy Goku is fighting.

The thing with Vegeta is he never really reckoned with his past actions...he just became a better person and people just shrugged it off. So Vegeta actually trying to redeem his past behavior is a pretty huge step.

I had no problem with Vegeta's "I'm a villain and going to hell speech." A few good years doesn't erase decades of the type of shit Vegeta did—even if Prounga deemed him good.

This is the same way I feel. I believe that he just got a pass from Toriyama-san, not a complete pass as Piccolo mentions later in the Buu arc, but enough of one to make it seem like his previous sins were wiped away. I'm glad this arc dealt with that. It was something that kept me from being a Vegeta fan.

[Dbzfan94]

Vegeta's entire character arc in DBS has been on loop since Buu saga.

He doesnt want to work together/fuse with Goku
Goku mentions Bulma
Vegeta blushes
Vegeta agrees to help
My bulma speech
rinse and repeat

[Magnificent Ponta]

Vegeta's entire character arc in DBS has been on loop since Buu saga.

He doesnt want to work together/fuse with Goku
Goku mentions Bulma
Vegeta blushes
Vegeta agrees to help
My bulma speech
rinse and repeat

For those keeping score at home, this assertion is not at all accurate with respect to the following arcs:

• Battle of Gods

• Revival of F

• Universe 6 Tournament

• Tournament of Power

• Galactic Patrol Prisoner

[Dbzfan94]

Vegeta's entire character arc in DBS has been on loop since Buu saga.

He doesnt want to work together/fuse with Goku
Goku mentions Bulma
Vegeta blushes
Vegeta agrees to help
My bulma speech
rinse and repeat

For those keeping score at home, this assertion is not at all accurate with respect to the following arcs:

• Battle of Gods

• Revival of F

• Universe 6 Tournament

• Tournament of Power

• Galactic Patrol Prisoner

the blushing and my Bulma legit started in Battle of Gods,
And Vegeta has about 5 my bulma speeches in the ToP alone

Still, he's been going back and forth on whether he wants to help Goku despite them getting past that in Buu Saga.

[Magnificent Ponta]

Vegeta's entire character arc in DBS has been on loop since Buu saga.

He doesnt want to work together/fuse with Goku
Goku mentions Bulma
Vegeta blushes
Vegeta agrees to help
My bulma speech
rinse and repeat

For those keeping score at home, this assertion is not at all accurate with respect to the following arcs:

• Battle of Gods

• Revival of F

• Universe 6 Tournament

• Tournament of Power

• Galactic Patrol Prisoner

the blushing and mentioning Bulma happened in Battle of Gods,
And Vegeta has about 5 my bulma speeches in the ToP alone

The OP is with respect to this arc and going forwards, which is currently a manga-only arc - hence all the discussion around Vegeta's latest character development in trying to make amends for what he did to the Namekians, and his comment that he'll be going to Hell.

Vegeta makes no mention of Bulma in the Manga version of the Tournament of Power during the fighting at all, and in Battle of Gods there is no need for him to be browbeaten into compliance by means of mention of Bulma either, which is what you strictly claimed, is it not?