Roshi and Merus' involvement make Whis look like a terrible Master

[Tai Lung]

I prefer to reserve my opinion of merus but I have also witnessed many opinions negatives about whis and beerus respectively ... about how they seem to be only simple spectators and indifferent to everything that happens even to the teaching or protection of the universe, something that they should not ignore given their positions ...
I personally think that the only thing that should teach the UI to goku was whis as it happened in the anime but ... and basically it seems that only roshi and merus have taught something to goku
Well, opinions?

[Cipher]

Whis is a very hands-off master, and even in his first appearances in such a role in Toriyama-scripted material, his M.O. seems to be pointing Goku and Vegeta in the right directions and waiting for future trials to nudge them toward the correct paths on their own.

The foundations of all of Goku and Vegeta's post-God powers were instilled directly by Whis, as well as the general path toward techniques like UI. I don't particuarly see it as invalidating for him to have interactions with other characters provide the final, direct push, since setting them up to be receptive to something like that is Whis' approach from the start.

I personally think that the only thing that should teach the UI to goku was whis as it happened in the anime but

Doesn't being hit by his own Genki Dama do that?

[TheSaiyanGod]

Whis is a very hands-off master, and even in his first appearances in such a role in Toriyama-scripted material, his M.O. seems to be pointing Goku and Vegeta in the right directions and waiting for future trials to nudge them toward the correct paths on their own.

The foundations of all of Goku and Vegeta's post-God powers were instilled directly by Whis, as well as the general path toward techniques like UI. I don't particuarly see it as invalidating for him to have interactions with other characters provide the final, direct push, since setting them up to be receptive to something like that is Whis' approach from the start.

I personally think that the only thing that should teach the UI to goku was whis as it happened in the anime but

Doesn't being hit by his own Genki Dama do that?

I agree. Whis as a master gets some hate, but it's always good to keep in mind that unlike Merus, he doesn't have a bias. He trains Goku and Vegeta in exchange for food, but always lets them learn the most important lessons on their own. He didn't tell about Golden Freeza's weakness and he didn't tell how to defeat Hit's Time Skip. He did not actively try to teach how to use the Ultra Instinct, he taught the principles and let them try to learn. Merus literally beat the hell out of him trying to make Goku able to activate the UI, in addition to having the advantage that Goku had experienced this power before and knew the trigger for it

And yet, he was responsible for taking Goku and Vegeta to a whole different level of power.

[Tai Lung]

Doesn't being hit by his own Genki Dama do that?

No, the genkidama was the trigger ... never the reason then the trigger would be kefla and jiren
even vegeta remembers what whis said to them
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ziww2NkkrUM

[Lionel]

Roshi could be regulatory with what he had to offer to his students as well -- he didn't teach any of them his particular techniques. Goku, Krillin, and Yamcha each had to pick up and hone their ability to use the Kamehameha without any oversight from Roshi. Roshi even needed to be enticed with a pretty girl, Launch, before he would even train Goku and Krilin. In that respect, he and Whis are similar. Granted, Whis does take the principle of non-intervention and a self-gratifying stipulation to a new level by refraining from fights altogether unless it's to hone his students and be provided a continual supply of food.

[FrioPolar]

Whis is such a bad teacher that he managed to get Goku and Vegeta to learn to fight together perfectly in sync.

[Kinokima]

Whis is such a bad teacher that he managed to get Goku and Vegeta to learn to fight together perfectly in sync.

Only in the manga though

[FrioPolar]

Whis is such a bad teacher that he managed to get Goku and Vegeta to learn to fight together perfectly in sync.

Only in the manga though

I know, Whis is a better teacher in the manga.

[Tai Lung]

Roshi could be regulatory with what he had to offer to his students as well -- he didn't teach any of them his particular techniques. Goku, Krillin, and Yamcha each had to pick up and hone their ability to use the Kamehameha without any oversight from Roshi. Roshi even needed to be enticed with a pretty girl, Launch, before he would even train Goku and Krilin. In that respect, he and Whis are similar. Granted, Whis does take the principle of non-intervention and a self-gratifying stipulation to a new level by refraining from fights altogether unless it's to hone his students and be provided a continual supply of food.

roshi taught the mafuba to goku

Whis is such a bad teacher that he managed to get Goku and Vegeta to learn to fight together perfectly in sync.

Only in the manga though

goku and vegeta also fought together against jiren in the anime ...

[Kinokima]

Roshi could be regulatory with what he had to offer to his students as well -- he didn't teach any of them his particular techniques. Goku, Krillin, and Yamcha each had to pick up and hone their ability to use the Kamehameha without any oversight from Roshi. Roshi even needed to be enticed with a pretty girl, Launch, before he would even train Goku and Krilin. In that respect, he and Whis are similar. Granted, Whis does take the principle of non-intervention and a self-gratifying stipulation to a new level by refraining from fights altogether unless it's to hone his students and be provided a continual supply of food.

roshi taught the mafuba to goku

Whis is such a bad teacher that he managed to get Goku and Vegeta to learn to fight together perfectly in sync.

Only in the manga though

goku and vegeta also fought together against jiren in the anime ...

Yes and they weren’t in sync at all. It was the complete opposite of the manga

[Tai Lung]

Roshi could be regulatory with what he had to offer to his students as well -- he didn't teach any of them his particular techniques. Goku, Krillin, and Yamcha each had to pick up and hone their ability to use the Kamehameha without any oversight from Roshi. Roshi even needed to be enticed with a pretty girl, Launch, before he would even train Goku and Krilin. In that respect, he and Whis are similar. Granted, Whis does take the principle of non-intervention and a self-gratifying stipulation to a new level by refraining from fights altogether unless it's to hone his students and be provided a continual supply of food.

roshi taught the mafuba to goku

Only in the manga though

goku and vegeta also fought together against jiren in the anime ...

Yes and they weren’t in sync at all. It was the complete opposite of the manga

yes they were
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fvr-lUdxF4
the only difference is that jiren wasn't tired yet for that to be useful with him
but they leave it implicit

[FrioPolar]

Yes and they weren’t in sync at all. It was the complete opposite of the manga

Yep.



Goku and Vegeta are worse students in the anime or Whis is a worse teacher in the anime.

both are valid options.

[Jack Bz]

roshi taught the mafuba to goku



goku and vegeta also fought together against jiren in the anime ...

Yes and they weren’t in sync at all. It was the complete opposite of the manga

yes they were
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fvr-lUdxF4
the only difference is that jiren wasn't tired yet for that to be useful with him
but they leave it implicit

The anime says the exact opposite, that Vegeta and Goku are fighting not in sync at all, to the point where Jiren is finding it especially difficult to predict. This is explicitly stated.

[Tai Lung]

Yes and they weren’t in sync at all. It was the complete opposite of the manga

yes they were
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fvr-lUdxF4
the only difference is that jiren wasn't tired yet for that to be useful with him
but they leave it implicit

The anime says the exact opposite, that Vegeta and Goku are fighting not in sync at all, to the point where Jiren is finding it especially difficult to predict. This is explicitly stated.

the subtitles in Spanish and the latin dub say the opposite ... it is seen that they are balanced

and goku say:

[FrioPolar]

In Spanish subtitles Whis says exactly the same as in the English subtitles.



LOL.

Herms.


This is a thread that Tai Lung made to defend anime with lies as always.

Nothing new.

[Tai Lung]

In Spanish subtitles Whis says exactly the same as in the English subtitles.



Herms.


This is a thread that Tai Lung made to defend anime with lies as always.

Nothing new.

I know the Spanish language and that "Goku and Vegeta can't make a "proper" coordinated attack ...." it is not the same that they are not coordinated does not deny it simply mentions that it is not perfect yet

I made a post where goku mentions that it is coordinated with vegeta ...

and ... the post you made of herms mentions the same thing ...

not is perfect = / = they are not coordinated at all

in fact that affirms that they are fighting in a coordinated way

[Dragon Wukong]

I know the Spanish language and that "Goku and Vegeta can't make a "proper" coordinated attack ...." it is not the same that they are not coordinated does not deny it simply mentions that it is not perfect yet

I made a post where goku mentions that it is coordinated with vegeta ...

and ... the post you made of herms mentions the same thing ...

not is perfect = / = they are not coordinated at all

in fact that affirms that they are fighting in a coordinated way

I think the point he's getting at is if that's the case the spanish subtitles were inaccurate. Herms is considered one of the most reliable translators formerly doing stuff for Kanzenshuu. He's not wrong, Whis did in-fact state that Goku and Vegeta were uncoordinated, which is the opposite of how it was portrayed in the manga.

[Tai Lung]

I know the Spanish language and that "Goku and Vegeta can't make a "proper" coordinated attack ...." it is not the same that they are not coordinated does not deny it simply mentions that it is not perfect yet

I made a post where goku mentions that it is coordinated with vegeta ...

and ... the post you made of herms mentions the same thing ...

not is perfect = / = they are not coordinated at all

in fact that affirms that they are fighting in a coordinated way

I think the point he's getting at is if that's the case the spanish subtitles were inaccurate. Herms is considered one of the most reliable translators formerly doing stuff for Kanzenshuu. He's not wrong, Whis did in-fact state that Goku and Vegeta were uncoordinated, which is the opposite of how it was portrayed in the manga.

my point was for the other comment ... about that they weren't coordinated at all ... but actually they were, as can be seen in that scene but it didn't make it perfect that it's not a negation ... anyway goku and vegeta have more fights together in the anime so they are perfecting it or at least that is what goku says at the end

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Q8UL65CzJ4

[VegettoEX]

This is a thread that Tai Lung made to defend anime with lies as always.

Nothing new.

This is not an appropriate way to hold a conversation in this community.

[TheSaiyanGod]

I know the Spanish language and that "Goku and Vegeta can't make a "proper" coordinated attack ...." it is not the same that they are not coordinated does not deny it simply mentions that it is not perfect yet

I made a post where goku mentions that it is coordinated with vegeta ...

and ... the post you made of herms mentions the same thing ...

not is perfect = / = they are not coordinated at all

in fact that affirms that they are fighting in a coordinated way

I think the point he's getting at is if that's the case the spanish subtitles were inaccurate. Herms is considered one of the most reliable translators formerly doing stuff for Kanzenshuu. He's not wrong, Whis did in-fact state that Goku and Vegeta were uncoordinated, which is the opposite of how it was portrayed in the manga.

my point was for the other comment ... about that they weren't coordinated at all ... but actually they were, as can be seen in that scene but it didn't make it perfect that it's not a negation ... anyway goku and vegeta have more fights together in the anime so they are perfecting it or at least that is what goku says at the end

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Q8UL65CzJ4

The whole point of the anime scene is to show that Goku and Vegeta were attacking so out of sync that it made it difficult for Jiren to predict their attacks

The scene you're referring to is another part that 17 is involved in (it's not just Goku and Vegeta). And yet it does not prove anything, because their "combined attack" only refers to the 3 energy beams fired by Goku, Vegeta and 17 at the same time against Jiren.