So, I guess better luck next time Vegeta when it comes to primary villains...

[Psajdak]

People may crap all they want about how Vegeta did got some development, and a new tehnique which doesn't matter anymore, but once again it was shown who it the main main character boss of Dragon Ball - Son Goku.

I have no will to bother with editing panels from DBS manga chapter 64, but please imagine every part where Goku is stomping Moro with Goku being Toriyama / Toyotaro, and Moro being Vegeta's chance of being more relevant than Goku.

...

I wonder if people will finally accept the truth.

[Matches Malone]

[Cipher]

I thought Toyotarо̄ was supposed to be a massive Vegeta fanboy, to the extent it was ruining the series? I'm confused.

Anyway, speak ye not too soon, on how the arc's going to end.

[SupremeKai25]

Goku doesn't defeat primary villains anyway, the Super track record is clear. I would say the last villain that Goku defeated was Buu, as for the rest he teamed up with someone else or anyway didn't win as smoothly as anticipated.

Really it's a recurring theme of Super that these people can't win by themselves, they always need the Gods to intervene on their behalf. As Beerus said "You rely on the Gods too much."

[Skar]

Really it's a recurring theme of Super that these people can't win by themselves, they always need the Gods to intervene on their behalf. As Beerus said "You rely on the Gods too much."

They're kinda forced to rely on the gods when the gods were responsible for most of these arcs. If Beerus never had a dream about the SSJ God, it's likely nothing eventful would've happened between Buu saga and EoZ. I guess RoF might still take place but it could've been because Goku and Vegeta were offworld that Sorbet decided to go to Earth. In the grand scheme of things, Goku has only been around for a few decades while the gods had their own problems for millions of years like U7's low mortal ranking and Zeno being a loose cannon.

[HeroR]

Goku doesn't defeat primary villains anyway, the Super track record is clear. I would say the last villain that Goku defeated was Buu, as for the rest he teamed up with someone else or anyway didn't win as smoothly as anticipated.

Really it's a recurring theme of Super that these people can't win by themselves, they always need the Gods to intervene on their behalf. As Beerus said "You rely on the Gods too much."

The only time Goku and the other relied on the gods is in Resurrection 'F'. The Future Trunks Saga was purely the gods' fault and the mortals suffered for it and the TOP were mortals saving the gods' asses because they mismanaged their universe.

So it's weird that people keep taking Beerus' quote at face value and not seeing the pure hypocrisy behind it. Especially when it is his job to managed U7 yet he let rogues like Freeza run around and let Buu kill all the gods except one and the mortals were the ones who cleaned the mess up since Beerus would have been dead if Goku and the others didn't help Shin who would have most likely died on Earth. In fact, that is exactly what happened in the manga version of the Future Trunks Saga.

[Lionel]

It's still indeterminate how Moro will be put down. So much speculation has already been thrown out arguing that the other shoe is about to drop next chapter. Admittedly, with the preparedness of Goku for another round of fisticuffs and Toyotaro's tendencies, it seems almost inevitable that Moro will be brought back from the brink one final time. Hopefully that's when Vegeta can step up and lend some valuable aid which adequately requites for the time and effort put into developing their respective paths.

[WittyUsername]

I’d imagine that the resolution to the Moro conflict probably won’t be as straightforward as UI Goku defeating Moro on his own. Still, I don’t think I ever really understood why people get disappointed whenever Goku is the one who defeats the villain. Goku is the protagonist of Dragon Ball. That’s how it’s been since the beginning.

[Matches Malone]

I don’t think I ever really understood why people get disappointed whenever Goku is the one who defeats the villain. Goku is the protagonist of Dragon Ball. That’s how it’s been since the beginning.

To be fair, Goku hasn't defeated any major villain since Freeza on Namek (within Toriyama's stories). Goku defeating Moro would be the most unexpected thing that could happen.

[TobyS]

Vegeta was never promised anything, he got some stuff to do and got some pages focused on him which is more then most other characters usually get.

Anything beyond that was fanboys getting their hopes up with no evidence and throwing their toys out their pram when that isn't the case.

I thought Tenshinhan would achieve something in the ToP and Yamcha would be in last minute.

But that's on me.

It's not the world that hurts you it's your expectations of it.

[Kinokima]

It’s not disappointing that Vegeta doesn’t get to beat Moro on his own (I never expected that) but it is disappointing that Vegeta doesn’t seem get to play any part in the final battle with Goku (I know it’s not over yet).

It’s disingenuous to say nothing more was promised with Vegeta when he had a lot of build up throughout this arc. Both Goku & Vegeta trained, both Goku & Vegeta fought Moro a similar amount of times and failed, etc

But for Vegeta all the focus amounts to him failing again (and he didn’t even do anything wrong) and a small scene of him bringing back the Namekians which barely got any fanfare that no one even cares about. Instead people are bashing Vegeta for failing once again all over Twitter. What else is new?


Hell even before the chapter there was a trailer building Vegeta up and the chapter was called Vegeta reborn. It’s just silly to say fans shouldn’t expect a little more than what they got. It’s not quantity but the quality that counts.

As a fan I’d rather they give Vegeta less pages and focus more on Goku’s relationship with Merus then building up false hopes. That would be much better for the themes of where the storyline went too.

[UpFromTheSkies]

We still don't know whats going to happen next, but if Vegeta hadn't arrived when he did Goku would be dead for sure, so he at least has that.

[TobyS]

EVERYONE including CHAOZU trained for Moros arrival.

It doesn't mean anyone was promised anything.

In fact the fact that his training was shown and unique meant he ALREADY got more than anyone else. He bought back some Nameks which feeds back into his "oh yeah I killed these guys years ago, sorry I used to be such a prick like I still am in the anime version".

He was never owed the kill.

Anymore than Kamicolo deserved to kill an android, or the humans deserved something after Kaios training.

Sometimes characters plans to save the day fail and when it does it's usual Goku who gets the successful attempt.

[Kinokima]

EVERYONE including CHAOZU trained for Moros arrival.

It doesn't mean anyone was promised anything.

In fact the fact that his training was shown and unique meant he ALREADY got more than anyone else. He bought back some Nameks which feeds back into his "oh yeah I killed these guys years ago, sorry I used to be such a prick like I still am in the anime version".

He was never owed the kill.

Anymore than Kamicolo deserved to kill an android, or the humans deserved something after Kaios training.

Sometimes characters plans to save the day fail and when it does it's usual Goku who gets the successful attempt.

This argument misses the entire point.


No one is saying Vegeta DESERVES to beat Moro or beat a final villain but completely writing him out of the picture in the in the end after all that build up & when he played just as much a role as Goku throughout the entire arc is not good writing. Saying well Chiaotzu trained too, the difference is Chiaotzu’s training wasn’t built up throughout the arc.

Just having Vegeta in the story to build him up constantly then just to have him fail over and over (and in this case just make things worse) is repetitive. Don’t have him there if that’s all they are going to do with the character. Let him contribute in a meaningful way (this doesn’t mean beating the main villain it could just simply be supporting Goku in some way )


People can be upset that other characters don’t show up or get to do more. That’s a perfectly valid complaint. But just saying well you can’t complain because the character you like gets more focus when that focus amounts to the same damn thing every time. Seriously I rather give Vegeta less focus if that’s all they are going to do with the character.

[EGonzo]

I don't even care that Vegeta didn't kill the villain at this point. What's annoying is that Toyo made the entire arc Vegeta-centric, only to make Goku and his development the main star in the climax of the story. At this point, no matter what Vegeta does is important, because the peak of the story was given to Goku