Perfect Ultra Instinct: Skinny vs. Swole?

[LoganForkHands73]

The most recent manga chapter has seemingly shifted the design of Perfect Ultra Instinct away from Toriyama's conceptual design of it, a slender palette swap of Super Saiyan God, to the more muscular design first seen in the anime and used uniformly throughout all other Dragon Ball media. The question is, which do you prefer?


The former is Ultra Instinct's appearance in the Tournament of Power, the latter is its appearance in the battle against Moro in Chapter 64. I'll elaborate my own thoughts on the subject later but first I want to hear your thoughts.

[GodVegetto91]

I actually like it better when he’s skinny. It’s more special and unique that way, and completely different from any other transformation except for SSJ God. It basically tells the audience that this is a “divine” form. And since it’s divine, it doesn’t need much muscles. Like Beerus and Whis have. They’re also very skinny!

[SupremeKai25]

The skinny form is better. I am of the idea that all these god forms (Red, Blue, Rosé, Ultra Instinct...) should look elegant and refined, so it makes more sense if the body was skinny instead of muscular. Especially when talking about Ultra instinct, the most ominous and advanced technique of the Gods, mastered only by the angels (and Goku I guess).

[Cipher]

Skinny, but it’s not a huge deal if the presentation shifts between arcs. The original DB was no stranger to major style shifts without in-fiction cause.

[LoganForkHands73]

Skinny, but it’s not a huge deal if the presentation shifts between arcs. The original DB was no stranger to major style shifts without in-fiction cause.

I agree, I only justify this as a minor art style shift, nothing major worth over-explaining in-universe, but it's interesting to compare the two styles.

I'm slightly conflicted because I mainly lean on the side of muscular, though I don't mind the slender look as more of a curious alternative. Beyond wanting it to look more distinct from Super Saiyan God, I always picture Ultra Instinct as a much more physically demanding form, justifying the normal-Goku-sized muscles. However, I certainly understand the argument that there's a godlike elegance to the slender design reflective of Beerus and the Angels, just like Super Saiyan God, and in some ways it makes sense for Ultra Instinct to be more athletic. A part of me wishes that principle was more consistent across the board with all other god forms from Blue onwards, then I'd be more accepting. I guess you could say there's a circularity to going back to a Super Saiyan God-esque design in the end since that was the one that started it all but it almost comes across as a bit random at this point.

Another part of it, for me, is the non-transformation aspect. Without getting into the technique vs. transformation debate, I perceive Ultra Instinct as representing Goku's perfect state of being, not changing too much about him physically aside from giving him angelic silver hair. The old Kung Fu Panda aesop that there is no secret ingredient, it's just you. Goku doesn't have to sacrifice any part of his body in order to reach this power, but purely change his state of mind. I always found that applied to Ultra Instinct, especially Sign, quite aptly.

[Cipher]

Another part of it, for me, is the non-transformation aspect. Without getting into the technique vs. transformation debate, I perceive Ultra Instinct as representing Goku's perfect state of being, not changing too much about him physically aside from giving him angelic silver hair. The old Kung Fu Panda aesop that there is no secret ingredient, it's just you. Goku doesn't have to sacrifice any part of his body in order to reach this power, but purely change his state of mind. I always found that applied to Ultra Instinct, especially Sign, quite aptly.

Then again, this is a series in which ki is shown to be quite capable of altering muscle mass even without genetic transformations. (It’s nonsense, anatomically, but that’s fine.)

I can accept the kind of physical ideal for something that is all lithe movement and precision like UI being a more slender build, and the body adapting for it, a la SS God.

If not, that’s fine too, but I don’t think a slight build-change necessarily “transformations it up” in a way that’s too hard to accept.

[DragonBallFoodie]

Neither physique really matters IMO, what counts is the silver hair and the aura.

[Magnificent Ponta]

On the one hand, I think Goku has generally been depicted as a little more muscular in the fight on Earth than he was in the Tournament of Power, so in that sense, this would just be in keeping (I found it really more noticeable when he goes Omen again in Chapter 63 than I did here; he's really quite bulky there).

On the other hand, there's something about his physique as depicted in the OP that seems to say 'textbook anatomy' to me; this is just a hunch, but maybe Toyotarou wants to leave the idea that as Goku has been perfected here, so his physique evokes this idea to an extent?

[The Undying]

Personally, I'm okay with both. What matters to me is retaining Goku's more relaxed facial expression - meaning no wrinkle between the brows. Toyotaro has been consistent with this so far, and when Goku had the scowl for Sign, the dialogue wasted no time confirming he was just using it incorrectly.

I do agree that using his normal musculature, rather than making him skinny, fits the idea that it's a state of mind rather than another power-up.

This chapter also definitely makes Ultra Instinct look better as far as the art quality and detail are concerned.

[GodVegetto91]

Neither physique really matters IMO, what counts is the silver hair and the aura.

You forgot the eyes!

[pepd]

I prefer it skinny, but also agree that no change in his musculature fits better with the concept, and that the facial expression, hair and (no)aura are more important. I think I would prefer if the general style was between Buu arc and Toriyama's late style, and he kept the same musculature.

[theherodjl]

I personally like a little more muscle mass with MUI. Fighters generally improve their physique whenever they train even harder for future matches so it would make sense that Goku would gain a little muscle in his UI training. Just so as long as they don't go for the absurdity of the grade forms or follow the anime's depiction of gradual muscle growth as they activate each form in succession, I'm cool with UI not being a simple re-skin of SSJG.

[emperior]

Normal body is better and makes more sense.

It isn’t a transformation. Toyotaro in the ToP probably assumed that Toriyama had made it skinnier but actually he changed the muscle mass a bit when tracing/altering the SSG design so I suppose he intended it to be the same as the base form, muscles wise.

[Triggered Vegeta]

I'd prefer Goku with slim design, but with the hair style he currently has. As we have seen, most of the God's and Angels have slim body frames & Limbs but they're incredibly strong without bulky muscles.

[Koitsukai]

I don't like the skinny version of the ToP nor the buffed version of Fighterz. I think current UI and anime UI hit the balance I like.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

Goku is a BUFF guy. Not overly so, but he is quite swole.

I like it when his various forms maintain that. Part of why he looks buff in Ultra Instinct currently is because more of his musculature shows through due to the circumstances of battle reducing how much of his shirt he has, and he's a very well-built and toned Saiyan male in general.

It's only in completely concealing clothing where Goku, Vegeta, Gohan, etc., look skinnier and less toned than they actually are. They all have very buff and well-rounded physiques, but their clothing conceals that to varying degrees.

[WittyUsername]

I don’t like making him skinny or overly buff. Making him skinny just makes it look like a Super Saiyan God recolor, while buffing him up conflicts with the idea of him being in a calm state of mind in that form. He should just keep his normal physique.

[BWri]

It shouldn't be a form so it shouldn't change his body at all. Boiling this concept down to a transformation is another misstep for Super. IMO, just like with my opinion for SSG and SSB, I think the eyes and aura should be what's changed and emphasized. Maybe a slight discoloring to the edges of the hair if you want to get dramatic, like highlights or something but it would crackle with energy of that color rather than being a static hair color change.

It's why I feel Omen was the best looking visually in the anime. It's muted, subtle, but easily conveys what needs to be conveyed. If Piccolo ever gets god powers, I hope they stick with the DBH style and just change the eye color. Saiyans are just too dramatic lol.

[UpFromTheSkies]

I like the way he looks in the current chapters with Moro, but not so much in the ToP chapters, it just looks off to me. I'm also not a fan of the way they colored the Super chapters, the color version of the original Dragon Ball manga looks so much better to me.

[goku the krump dancer]

The whole "Getting Thinner" aspect of God Ki never really went anywhere anyway so the "bulkier" look is by default more consistent.