What Inconsistencies &/or Retcons You Wished Were Never Made In Dragon Ball Super?

[LoganForkHands73]

My #1 thing is the loss of Saiyan Beyond God and the perfect chance to streamline Saiyan transformations, but Grimlock posted most of the other stuff I dislike.

Yeah, I also don't like that Saiyan beyond God was thrown out of the window. With it, it would render the Super Saiyan God transformation pointless, therefore we would never have to see it again, one less recolor, one less transformation... Too bad merchandising will always speak louder, unfortunately.

I'm conflicted about that because I like Super Saiyan God and I also like the idea of the "Beyond God" state. There's still some outlying stuff in the anime like Goku briefly sparring with Beerus Monaka in only his base form, and when he fights in base you sometimes see a prominent white aura but they seem to have given that to all non-SSJ combatants. But yeah, it's a mess. I blame Toriyama for this because he never adequately explained it to anyone outside of like one interview, then he evidently backpedalled/didn't care enough to correct anybody, so nobody really knew what to do.

I'm not into "headcanoning" anything about this subject. This is one that could have been easily avoided. All they had to do was either call Toyotaro to help design all five Kaioshins for each Universe or explicitly say that the ones who went to the tournament were in fact Dai Kaioshins. Neither happened, so it's not up to viewers to "solve" this. In fact, we never even heard the word "Dai Kaioshin" being mentioned at all in the whole series.

And I also would like a proper explanation on how Kaioshin of East (Universe 7) would become Dai Kaioshin, because there's no one above him to promote him (Old Kaioshin was also a Kaioshin of East, so theoretically he couldn't do it).

With this one I'm not so sure, I think it's fine to infer that the Kaioshin gathered to the ToP are all the top Dai Kaioshin of their respective universes, including Shin who is the last of his kind so I always assumed that the ruling title simply gets passed on to the next living one. I don't think designing even more Kaioshin is necessary, Toei and presumably Toyotaro (afaik Toriyama didn't contribute to Kaioshin designs) already had to design loads for the arc. There's only so much you can really do with the basic template. True, a quick line of dialogue explaining that they're all Dai Kaioshin would have been nice. I believe Old Kaioshin is simply considered an anomaly kept around alongside Shin out of politeness to a senior.

[Matches Malone]

Goku's base from RoF.

He can beat up FF Freeza that one-shot SS Gohan in his 1st form, but then that is not enough for Assault form Frost or even Trunks?

Trying to make sense of Super's power scaling is harder than putting shattered glass back together.

[Thani]

Honestly? I would much like prefer that there is only one Kaioshin, and retroactively retcon the other Kaioshins as "mere" Kais (and Zamasu already shown us that the more humanoid shinjin can be Kais). That would keep them relevant for much of the story in Z (imagine King Kai not capping at just 4.000 PL), and since they can't interact with the lower realms, just like the Kaioshin, they can't be relied on to defeat the main bad guy.

Then Buu would come and the whole "Holy moly, that demon actually killed them all?" would actually have an impact, since we had until that point the idea that the Kais, these "great gods of galaxies" were the top ceiling of the verse. Instead of, you know, having Vegeta say "they were probably just a weak bunch".

[SSJgogeto]

I still consider GT as unbeatable in the "nerfing the protagonists" category, and I honestly don't know what's wrong in "giving the antagonists absolutely absurd powers and abilities".

With that said, there's some inconsistencies with transformations/forms and power levels. I have my own explanations about them, like:

Goku's base from RoF. - He was using Beyond God.

He can beat up FF Freeza that one-shot SS Gohan in his 1st form, but then that is not enough for Assault form Frost or even Trunks? - He was in his base form.

But I wish these things had been explained in the anime. Besides that and Goku's behavior sometimes I don't really have a problem with Super.

[ZombieVito]

Goku's base from RoF.

He can beat up FF Freeza that one-shot SS Gohan in his 1st form, but then that is not enough for Assault form Frost or even Trunks?

Base Goku was above Assault Frost.

Trunks got beat for a year by Goku black and he has had insane gains before.

There's no inconsistency.

[Tai Lung]

I would like for literally everyone who has a problem with the creators behind the countless inconsistencies and/or retcons of Dragon Ball Super to please post what you didn't like about Dragon Ball Super shamelessly surpassing even Dragon Ball GT when it comes to basically nerfing the protagonists and giving the antagonists absolutely absurd powers and abilities.

it does not overcome it and in general it has an explanation ...
incidentally, the series have different logics ...
in super and Z ... goku base does not exceed the frieza range no matter how much he trains ... in gt that is possible despite training only 5 years on earth contradicting the fact that goku spent more than 7 without exceeding this level despite training in the other world
In Super it is possible that Frieza becomes stronger because of the explanation of the evolution his race in GT that is not possible etc etc

[Grimlock]

I blame Toriyama for this because he never adequately explained it to anyone outside of like one interview, then he evidently backpedalled/didn't care enough to correct anybody, so nobody really knew what to do.

Toriyama is definitely one to blame. He said that Super Saiyan God would not come back exactly because Goku absorbed its power, that alone already renders the form itself useless. He should have followed what he said and stopped all the attempts Toei (and probably Toyotaro) would make to bring Super Saiyan God back for Goku (Vegeta gets a pass if it's meant to be his first time getting the form. His ritual should have been on-screen to further establish that Super Saiyan God is indeed supposed to be this one-time thing, he absorbs its power and that's it, no more damn recolor).

With this one I'm not so sure, I think it's fine to infer that the Kaioshin gathered to the ToP are all the top Dai Kaioshin of their respective universes, including Shin who is the last of his kind so I always assumed that the ruling title simply gets passed on to the next living one. I don't think designing even more Kaioshin is necessary, Toei and presumably Toyotaro (afaik Toriyama didn't contribute to Kaioshin designs) already had to design loads for the arc. There's only so much you can really do with the basic template. True, a quick line of dialogue explaining that they're all Dai Kaioshin would have been nice. I believe Old Kaioshin is simply considered an anomaly kept around alongside Shin out of politeness to a senior.

I don't think "it's fine". Like I said, "Dai Kaioshin" wasn't even mentioned a single time. It doesn't really matter that in Dragon Ball, gods are just a job and even then, they're hardly taken seriously but still, a proper identification like "hey, you're now Dai Kaioshin, deal with it" is in order. This has to happen on-screen to be clear to the viewers. However, the series doesn't gives us anything to work with so that we can at least infer anything. This is an important issue, no matter what. As far as we can tell, they're all Kaioshins with no designation and no sign of them being in a higher position than that.

goku base does not exceed the frieza range no matter how much he trains ...

Source?



I remembered two more inconsistencies, both from Toyotaro/the manga:

• Future Gohan knows Taiyo-Ken. •

Now, I had this conversation already and the people involved kind of managed to convice me that he knows it. But it's still mildly forced to me. I mean, ever since Gohan was born, Taiyo-ken was just used twice and in both occasions, Gohan couldn't actually have learned it but oh well, I think it is what it is. Probably one of those cases where we have to handwave the situation and ignore stuff here and there in order for it to work.

• One day passes in the present equally in the future. •

Wrong. Completely wrong. In Cell saga, three years passed in the present (AGE 764 - AGE 767), while eight months had passed in the future (AGE 784 - AGE 785).

[Dbzfan94]

Minus in general.

[SupremeKai25]

In the manga? Fused Zamasu not being an official Supreme Kai, because apparently neither Goku Black nor Future Zamasu were official Supreme Kais... even though Future Zamasu freely used the Time Ring, a divine artifact that can only be used by the Supreme Kais (so much so that Gowasu had to promote Zamasu temporarily to go to Babari 1000 years in the future).

This one is technically explained, though, isn't it? Gowas specifically gives Zamas his Potara to enable the use of tools like the Ring of Time, and Bulma specifically deduces that after Black kills Gowas, he will have taken his Potara specifically so that he can go over to Trunks's reality. But the Potara fusion isn't permanent because, although Black/Zamas has the (usurped) authority he needs to use the tools of the Kaioshin, he still isn't one.

I agree that it's not entirely satisfactory, but I'd say it's less an inconsistency and more a fudge that allows Zamas to have the best of both worlds in accessing different timelines and yet still having access to his old set of moves.

But then why would Gowasu need to raise Zamasu temporarily to the position of Supreme Kai instead of just giving him one of his earrings? If what you're saying is true, then Zamasu could have perfectly remained a mere apprentice to use the Time Ring, he'd just need one of Gowasu's earrings. Yet Gowasu had to specifically promote him to Supreme Kai before they could travel to the future.

[Kinokima]

Future Trunks with blue hair bothers me to no end. It makes no sense when Kid Trunks still has the lavender hair. They are biologically the same character

They even had to make the flashbacks in B&W to make this nonsensical change

I get it’s only a minor thing and doesn’t effect the story or characters so maybe I shouldn’t be bothered by it but it’s just so pointless and dumb that it does.

[Magnificent Ponta]

But then why would Gowasu need to raise Zamasu temporarily to the position of Supreme Kai instead of just giving him one of his earrings? If what you're saying is true, then Zamasu could have perfectly remained a mere apprentice to use the Time Ring, he'd just need one of Gowasu's earrings. Yet Gowasu had to specifically promote him to Supreme Kai before they could travel to the future.

Gowas says he's temporarily granting Zamas the power while he's handing over one of his own Potara for Zamas to use for the purpose, and then he demands it back after they've finished using the Ring of Time. Later, Shin mentions that Zamas shouldn't be able to use the Ring of Time since he's not a Kaioshin yet, and in the ensuing scene, the story makes a big deal of the fact that Black is wearing a Potara of the kind that only true Kaioshin wear, which is when Bulma explains that he must've taken Gowas's Potara to be able to traverse realities in the way he has.

So yes, I'd say that the story is indicating that it's just owning the Potara of a Kaioshin that itself gives Black/Zamas the power to use the Ring of Time, even though he's actually still just an apprentice. While I think it's a bit goofy of the story to treat the Potara themselves like they're some sort of cosmic access-all-areas keycard that grants Zamas the power to do this stuff, I don't think it's a true inconsistency.

[SupremeKai25]

But then why would Gowasu need to raise Zamasu temporarily to the position of Supreme Kai instead of just giving him one of his earrings? If what you're saying is true, then Zamasu could have perfectly remained a mere apprentice to use the Time Ring, he'd just need one of Gowasu's earrings. Yet Gowasu had to specifically promote him to Supreme Kai before they could travel to the future.

Gowas says he's temporarily granting Zamas the power while he's handing over one of his own Potara for Zamas to use for the purpose, and then he demands it back after they've finished using the Ring of Time. Later, Shin mentions that Zamas shouldn't be able to use the Ring of Time since he's not a Kaioshin yet, and in the ensuing scene, the story makes a big deal of the fact that Black is wearing a Potara of the kind that only true Kaioshin wear, which is when Bulma explains that he must've taken Gowas's Potara to be able to traverse realities in the way he has.

So yes, I'd say that the story is indicating that it's just owning the Potara of a Kaioshin that itself gives Black/Zamas the power to use the Ring of Time, even though he's actually still just an apprentice. While I think it's a bit goofy of the story to treat the Potara themselves like they're some sort of cosmic access-all-areas keycard that grants Zamas the power to do this stuff, I don't think it's a true inconsistency.

Which is what happens in the anime. Zamasu takes the potara from Gowasu's corpse and automatically becomes Supreme Kai. Only Toei refused to make things more convoluted for literally no reason (it's not like Fused Zamasu unfused anyway).

How does that even work anyway? Potara earrings of a Supreme Kai grant you all the benefits that a Supreme Kai has, except for unlimited fusion? How convenient for the protagonists.

[The Undying]

Anything that requires me to suspend my disbelief for extended periods of time within an in-universe framework qualifies as an inconsistency for me, so yeah, I'll go with the TV series in its entirety.

That means constant power scaling discrepancies, retconned godly base forms, awful film retellings, abrupt tonal shifts that don't feel like DB, mechanics and stamina issues that arbitrarily get ignored, Z movie tier characterization, countless details that require the viewer to actively postulate headcanon to make sense of... the list is massive. It's incredible.

This isn't a shitpost; I was excited to watch the anime when it was originally announced. The actual experience, however, was consistently exhausting, and I think the fact that a lot of people find it so difficult to rewatch honestly speaks volumes about its quality.

[Magnificent Ponta]

How does that even work anyway? Potara earrings of a Supreme Kai grant you all the benefits that a Supreme Kai has, except for unlimited fusion? How convenient for the protagonists.

Yeah, I agree - while I like the Future Trunks arc just fine, I think the basic 'mechanics' of how the whole thing is supposed to work (whether we're talking about the time travel stuff or the Kaioshin stuff) are almost arbitrary in their fiddliness - it's really quite distracting.

[Matches Malone]

Anything that requires me to suspend my disbelief for extended periods of time within an in-universe framework qualifies as an inconsistency for me, so yeah, I'll go with the TV series in its entirety.

I was excited to watch the anime when it was originally announced. The actual experience, however, was consistently exhausting.

The fact that a lot of people find it so difficult to re-watch honestly speaks volumes about its quality.

It's natural for a franchise as big as DB to have inconsistencies every now and then, but the Super anime seemed to have them on a regular basis, which is honestly unacceptable to me.

I completely agree with this. The biggest problem I had with it (one of them I should say) is how it was constantly taking one step forward, three steps backwards.

I can't speak for others, but personally, I was unable to watch it all the first time around, much less watch it a second time. I remember being very excited for the dub, but as time went on, I just couldn't bring myself to go through it again. I've been able to watch BOG countless times, RF and Broly twice, and the manga twice at least.

[Tai Lung]

an inconsistency that bothers me a lot is that trunks can obtain the kaioshin powers when the same author had said that no one could train for that ... they are born and then they prepare ... the fact that other races can make that ... his existence feel more useless than before

Source?

beerus doesn't think goku will be able to defeat frieza until he transforms into SSJ

[Magnificent Ponta]

an inconsistency that bothers me a lot is that trunks can obtain the kaioshin powers when the same author had said that no one could train for that ... they are born and then they prepare ... the fact that other races can make that ... his existence feel more useless than before

Trunks doesn't have Kaioshin powers. He has the powers belonging to those who are appointed to serve the Kaioshin.

[Grimlock]

beerus doesn't think goku will be able to defeat frieza until he transforms into SSJ

Huh? He's talking about the past, not present. Goku wasn't able to defeat Freeza without transforming, yes, but that was during Freeza saga time period, not Movie 14 time period.

I'm gonna have to ask for a source again, surely that Beerus' line can't be it, right?

[Tai Lung]

Trunks doesn't have Kaioshin powers. He has the powers belonging to those who are appointed to serve the Kaioshin.

he is a kaioshin apprentice .. same as kibito and zamasu which belong to the same race of the creator gods

Huh? He's talking about the past, the sentence is in the past tense, not present. Goku wasn't able to defeat Freeza without transforming, yes, but that was during Freeza saga time period, not Movie 14 time period.

I'm gonna have to ask for a source again, surely that Beerus' line can't be it, right?

actually beerus did not believe that goku is capable of defeating him even the current one


in the buu arc .. android 18 was sure to win the first place even though goku and vegeta were participating in the tournament since they were not going to be able to transform

[Magnificent Ponta]

Trunks doesn't have Kaioshin powers. He has the powers belonging to those who are appointed to serve the Kaioshin.

he is a kaioshin apprentice .. same as kibito and zamasu which belong to the same race of the creator gods

Yes, but that's not the same as having 'Kaioshin powers' - Kaioshin is just a position that special Shin-jin occupy. Shin states that he was himself apprenticed to the Dai Kaioshin, and had the power to restore at the time, but then he lost that power when he became an actual Kaioshin. Those powers belong to the position of attendant/apprentice, not the Shin-jin species.

And it's becoming a Kaioshin that Toriyama has said can only be done from birth, not the powers that are granted to their attendants/apprentices. Trunks having those powers isn't inconsistent with anything else I've seen.