Can Someone Please Explain To Me Why Would Akira Toriyama & Many Others Had Chosen To Do An Absurd Series of Retcons?

[Steven Bloodriver]

Ever since the creation of Dragon Ball Z: Battle of Gods, Akira Toriyama and the rest of those personally responsible for Dragon Ball Super even coming to exist in any shape or form in the very place had pretty much introduced evil beings and equally as dangerous situations that had lead to the destruction of countless Universes and even a Timeline for crying out loud.

But the real question is this, why retcon the absolute Hell of what had happened in the decade of peace in the original canon of Dragon Ball Z for such an absolutely shitty interquel series about inflicting omnicide on countless innocent people who had been nerfed to death by their respective creators?

[SSJgogeto]

And why not?

[Magnificent Ponta]

You already have a Dragon Ball Super retcons topic running right now - is there really any point to making another retcon topic, with apparently no other purpose than to bash the series, on top of that?

[precita]

Look at George Lucas and Star Wars, or what's-her-name and Harry Potter.

Creators are known to revisit their past work and "change things" to fans dismay.

[Cipher]

He was making retcons constantly throughout the original DB. It’s simply a side-effect or continuing the story.

I’m not sure what makes something as trivial as Vegetto having a time-limit anymore destructive of previous content than anything in the Saiyan arc. The only truly influential retconning seems to stem from Minus/Broly, and people can lament it at their will, but it’s still not that radical a change or one influential on anything happening in the “present” of the story.

[Matches Malone]

One simple word, marketing. The image of the current cast is iconic, so they want to keep it front and center as much as possible. I personally think BOG works perfectly as is, but that should've been it, everything starting with RF should've been set post EOZ. In terms of the actual quality, it's the result of bringing back something that had long ended and concluded everyone's character arcs. You can get away with a story or two, but having something on-going, as we're currently seeing, just doesn't work. There's simply nothing left to cover that hasn't already been covered in the original run.

I've got 2020 posts, a lucky...oK, maybe unlucky number.

[Skar]

Look at George Lucas and Star Wars, or what's-her-name and Harry Potter.

Creators are known to revisit their past work and "change things" to fans dismay.

Yeah that's what makes it frustrating because you tell they're changes they never considered back then. Usually a retcon during series original run is meant to expand or move the story forward. For example, Goku being an alien to introduce stronger opponents from other planets or Freeza being responsible for Planet Vegeta's destruction for his fear of the Saiyans setting up the battle against the SSJ. The story acknowledges these were changes and explains why the characters didn't know this information so it's not like the Potara retcon that requires the fans to explain why Old Kai didn't know how they worked.

Like I said in other retcon thread, I believe the majority of retcons in DBS are unintentional. Toriyama might be trying to explain something but overlooked details that results in the new information being a retcon. If there was a recut of DBS that removed almost every single retcon or inconsistency, you probably wouldn't feel like anything relevant was missing from the plot. I do think it's still a little better than George Lucas going back editing the original trilogy. Aside from minor changes in the Kanzenban, the original manga is still preserved as is.

[DragonBallFoodie]

Toriyama keeps his story loose and free, so it's easy for him to make rewrites here and there, whether of his own choice or on request by others.

[UpFromTheSkies]

You might not notice it unless you followed the original manga as it was being released, but there were retcons made throughout the entire series. The story is full of incositonsies and retcons and it just isn't meant to be taken seriously, even though it has some dramatic and serious moments.

I think it's fine to analyze the story and pick it apart if you enjoy doing that, but if the incosistencies are ruining your enjoyment, I'd recommend not taking it so serious

[ChronoTwigger]

If you mind well, Earth is practically unaware of everything happening in Super. So, for planet Earth, is a peacefull decade.
Maybe in this very moment some guy is enjoying a tournament betting our own existance, and maybe we are all fated to disap

[BWri]

Like I said in other retcon thread, I believe the majority of retcons in DBS are unintentional. Toriyama might be trying to explain something but overlooked details that results in the new information being a retcon. If there was a recut of DBS that removed almost every single retcon or inconsistency, you probably wouldn't feel like anything relevant was missing from the plot. I do think it's still a little better than George Lucas going back editing the original trilogy. Aside from minor changes in the Kanzenban, the original manga is still preserved as is.

I think what makes Toriyama-san's changes so bad is that they tend to clash with what already exists. That's why I think if he initially had some sort of series loremaster as an assistant to help him keep things straight then the series would be in a much better position with everyone.

I'm younger than Toriyama-san and my stories have only been around for a few years compared to the 30+ of DB and yet even with all the meticulous notes I take, I still have trouble remembering aspects of my stories and usually have to reread them and take more notes to make sure no plot thread is left hanging.

I think George R.R. Martin has a group of people doing this for him as Westeros is massive and absolutely historic. I think DB and Dragon Room could really really use a DB historian/loremaster on the payroll.

[precita]

There are a few things that irk me.

When did the time chamber allow people to go in more than 48 hours? In the Cell saga Mr. Popo and Piccolo tells them they can only go in twice or else the door will disappear and they will be sealed in forever. Vegeta used the time room twice as well as Future Trunks (Goku/Gohan and Piccolo only once), and then in Super, Vegeta somehow goes in there another 3 years? What? I don't understand why they did that. Goku should have been able to use it for one more day but I don't know how Vegeta could be there another 3 days/years.

I still don't understand why the Super Dragonballs exist. Now all of a sudden the Nameks did not create Dragonballs and apparently based them on the Super Dragonballs? Where did they come from? Why are we just hearing about this now?

I don't mind Vegetto not being permanent, or stuff like power scaling is just too ridiculous now to go into, but the other stuff is odd.

[Matches Malone]

When did the time chamber allow people to go in more than 48 hours?

When they "rebuilt" it they made it unlimited, which just takes away from the few permanent things in the franchise.

[BWri]

When did the time chamber allow people to go in more than 48 hours?

When they "rebuilt" it they made it unlimited, which just takes away from the few permanent things in the franchise.

I never understood why Dende was so much more powerful than Kami as a creator. Is it just because he's modifying and improving on things that Kami created from scratch?

[Steven Bloodriver]

When did the time chamber allow people to go in more than 48 hours?

When they "rebuilt" it they made it unlimited, which just takes away from the few permanent things in the franchise.

I never understood why Dende was so much more powerful than Kami as a creator. Is it just because he's modifying and improving on things that Kami created from scratch?

You do have to remember that Grand Elder Guru had unlocked Dende's hidden potential in the Namek Saga.

[precita]

Also when did Earth's Dragonballs granted 3 wishes like the ones on Namek? I remember in the Cell saga when Dende created the Dragon they changed it to have 2 wishes....but when did 3 wishes happen?

Was this ever explained in the Boo arc?

[BWri]

When they "rebuilt" it they made it unlimited, which just takes away from the few permanent things in the franchise.

I never understood why Dende was so much more powerful than Kami as a creator. Is it just because he's modifying and improving on things that Kami created from scratch?

You do have to remember that Grand Elder Guru had unlocked Dende's hidden potential in the Namek Saga.

Good point! I forgot how potent that power-up was.

[precita]

The retcons started with Battle of Gods, or even before that with the 2008 special since Vegeta now has a surviving brother who has never been mentioned before. You'd think Vegeta would wonder if his brother was still alive or not.

But Battle of Gods had a lot of retcons, but a lot of them can be hand waved:

- King Kai's planet is back. I believe there was a line from Beerus about how he had his planet restored, but odd how its back whereas in the Boo arc King Kai was just on the Grand Kai's planet since Cell blew it up.

- Beerus drove the dinosaurs to extinction, but dinosaurs still exist on Earth. This can be hand waved that Beerus wiped out most of the dinos so mammals could evolve, not that he killed them all 100% which is why we still see them.

- Beerus told Freeza to blow up Planet Vegeta. Whereas Beerus put this idea in Freeza's mind, Freeza is still the one who decided to wipe out the Saiyans when he realized they would be a threat in the future. So Freeza still made the decision.

- Gohan turns Super Saiyan (which people also complained about in GT), but nothing back in DBZ said he couldn't go Super Saiyan again, just that there was no reason to.

- Goku and Beerus appear to fight in space at the end of the movie, when Goku can't breathe in space. The same happens with Bardock in the special when he confronts Freeza, so if anything it goes to the past. They were likely fighting in the upper atmosphere and perhaps Saiyan can still breathe right above a planets atmosphere but not far into space.

- Vegeta becomes stronger than Super Saiyan 3 Goku just from Beerus slapping Bulma. While this may seem odd, keep in mind Vegeta had continually been training and SSJ3 seems like a mutation only Goku came up with, so Vegeta somehow reaching SSJ3 levels prior to the God stuff isn't too odd for me.


What do you guys think?

[Matches Malone]

Beerus told Freeza to blow up Planet Vegeta.

This wasn't the case in the movie, as Beerus just asked if Freeza blew it up. Funimation changed it to him ordering the attack, and later the Super anime changed it to that as well. I agree with everything else though.