I think its time to admit that Toyotaro is a terrible writer.

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JewyB
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Re: I think its time to admit that Toyotaro is a terrible writer.

Post by JewyB » Wed Oct 28, 2020 4:09 pm

UI Peter wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 4:04 pm
Muting someone because you disagree with them is pathetic, and I never made any insults.
I... I mean...

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Re: I think its time to admit that Toyotaro is a terrible writer.

Post by kemuri07 » Wed Oct 28, 2020 5:25 pm

Psajdak wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 8:22 am
Goku is someone one could call an antihero.

Freeza was just helping so that he could get resurrected; there was nothing heroic about him, although I do think he isn't a coward.

Just because DBS managed to make him likeable, doesn't mean he is antihero.
Goku. Is. Not. A. Anti-hero.

He is a hero full stop.

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Re: I think its time to admit that Toyotaro is a terrible writer.

Post by UI Peter » Wed Oct 28, 2020 5:45 pm

kemuri07 wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 5:25 pm
Psajdak wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 8:22 am
Goku is someone one could call an antihero.

Freeza was just helping so that he could get resurrected; there was nothing heroic about him, although I do think he isn't a coward.

Just because DBS managed to make him likeable, doesn't mean he is antihero.
Goku. Is. Not. A. Anti-hero.

He is a hero full stop.
Yes. Goku even at his most selfish is nowhere near an anti-hero.

Characters like Vegeta in most of Z, Saiyan Saga Piccolo, Hit and 90s Bardock are the real anti-heroes of the series.

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Re: I think its time to admit that Toyotaro is a terrible writer.

Post by theherodjl » Wed Oct 28, 2020 6:37 pm

JewyB wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 4:09 pm
UI Peter wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 4:04 pm
Muting someone because you disagree with them is pathetic, and I never made any insults.
I... I mean...
What? He didn't insult anyone. He made a truely objective argument as well as one of the most in-depth observations about another person's lack of character & civility on this forum that I've ever seen. :wink:
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Re: I think its time to admit that Toyotaro is a terrible writer.

Post by JewyB » Wed Oct 28, 2020 6:39 pm

theherodjl wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 6:37 pm
What? He didn't insult anyone. He made a truely objective argument as well as one of the most in-depth observations about another person's lack of character & civility on this forum that I've ever seen. :wink:
Pathetic is my favourite compliment, for example, your attempt to show talk around him insulting someone before saying he didnt insult anyone is very pathetic, good job! :wink:

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Re: I think its time to admit that Toyotaro is a terrible writer.

Post by UI Peter » Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:03 pm

JewyB wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 6:39 pm
theherodjl wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 6:37 pm
What? He didn't insult anyone. He made a truely objective argument as well as one of the most in-depth observations about another person's lack of character & civility on this forum that I've ever seen. :wink:
Pathetic is my favourite compliment, for example, your attempt to show talk around him insulting someone before saying he didnt insult anyone is very pathetic, good job! :wink:
I said what he did was pathetic, not he himself.

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Re: I think its time to admit that Toyotaro is a terrible writer.

Post by JewyB » Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:23 pm

UI Peter wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:03 pm
I said what he did was pathetic, not he himself.
And people are defined by their actions.

Its the same baseless defence of "i called what you did stupid, i didn't call you stupid". Everyone knows what you were implying, you're just not honest enough to admit it and now hiding behind semantics instead of at least having the integrity to back your own words.

Kinda makes it worse in my opinion, but i wont say anything more on the matter, he's muted you anyways and its between the two of you.

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Re: I think its time to admit that Toyotaro is a terrible writer.

Post by Mad Swami » Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:34 pm

Cipher wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 6:20 am
Not going to stop anyone from having an opinion on one version of Super or the other, but I am ... pretty baffled by propping up the anime and putting down the manga specifically on a shared criteria of "repeating things from Z in a shallow way" as a negative.

Were we watching the same Super anime?
Exactly! The anime does it too. Vegeta's final explosion, Piccolo guarding Gohan, that stupid poacher thing, and like Vegeta Gohan is just redoing his previous arc.

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Re: I think its time to admit that Toyotaro is a terrible writer.

Post by UI Peter » Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:36 pm

JewyB wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:23 pm
UI Peter wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:03 pm
I said what he did was pathetic, not he himself.
And people are defined by their actions.

Its the same baseless defence of "i called what you did stupid, i didn't call you stupid". Everyone knows what you were implying, you're just not honest enough to admit it and now hiding behind semantics instead of at least having the integrity to back your own words.

Kinda makes it worse in my opinion, but i wont say anything more on the matter, he's muted you anyways and its between the two of you.
This is a weak argument. So are you saying you can't criticized a person's actions and opinions without bashing a person? This sounds like yet another attempt to block out criticism at all cost. Its a very over-sensitive thing to do.

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Re: I think its time to admit that Toyotaro is a terrible writer.

Post by Mad Swami » Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:41 pm

I do find it interesting though because the DBS Broly movie had an absolutely shallow cling to Z nostalgia but because it looked great no one minds.
Image

Image
Gogeta has no point in this movie. He is just there for fan service. I loved the film and fight scene but I acknowledge it only exists for me to go "Awesome just like that other thing! Wow Gogeta!"

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Re: I think its time to admit that Toyotaro is a terrible writer.

Post by UI Peter » Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:44 pm

Mad Swami wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:41 pm
I do find it interesting though because the DBS Broly movie had an absolutely shallow cling to Z nostalgia but because it looked great no one minds.
Image

Image
Gogeta has no point in this movie. He is just there for fan service. I loved the film and fight scene but I acknowledge it only exists for me to go "Awesome just like that other thing! Wow Gogeta!"
Gogeta is there because Goku couldn't go MUI at will at that point, so they needed some other way to take out Broly.

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Re: I think its time to admit that Toyotaro is a terrible writer.

Post by JulieYBM » Wed Oct 28, 2020 11:13 pm

UI Peter wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 4:04 pm
The Undying wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 3:38 pm
UI Peter wrote:
Tue Oct 27, 2020 9:27 pm
Who's Sadala Elite and what same post?
Good one. I don't know why you're feigning, but this took me maybe 5 minutes:

Sadala Elite wrote: Android 21 is overall the best Modern DB character (aka anyone introduced since Yo Son Goku & Friends in 2008), and is more likeable than 90% of the classic cast.
UI Peter wrote: Shallot & Android 21 are better characters than 99% of the canon modern characters (anyone introduced since Battle of Gods) and 90% of the classic cast.

Sadala Elite wrote: 2 Base Theory is a debunked myth. Its nothing more than just a headcanon excuse to downplay certain characters
UI Peter wrote: 2 Base Theory is nothing more than an excuse to downplay certain characters

Sadala Elite wrote: Mr. Satan (from a writing standpoint) is the most underrated character in the franchise, and ties with Vegeta as the best writen character of the Buu Saga
UI Peter wrote: Buu Saga Vegeta is easily the greatest written character in the whole franchise.

But know I see Mr. Satan as the 2nd best written character of the Buu saga

That's just in addition to your overreliance on putting your responses inside quotes (in bold) when you're replying to longer posts instead of outside as is normal, using "smh" constantly at the end of sentences, frequenting the same few threads, and posting the exact same image links.

But again, I don't play this game with people who can't conduct themselves on a forum and regularly insult other users with ad hominem attacks. I'm putting you on mute so I don't have to interact with you anymore.

If anyone else needs me to elaborate further on DB-related posts I've made, I'd be more than happy to do so.
Those quotes you used are common opinions, and again, you dodged my arguments because you can't refute them and admit you're wrong. Muting someone because you disagree with them is pathetic, and I never made any insults.
Just replying to openly disagree with this last sentence. Nobody ia owed a platform or an ear. Muting people isn't somehow 'losing', it's getting on with your life.
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Re: I think its time to admit that Toyotaro is a terrible writer.

Post by Kataphrut » Wed Oct 28, 2020 11:14 pm

UI Peter wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:44 pm
Mad Swami wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:41 pm
I do find it interesting though because the DBS Broly movie had an absolutely shallow cling to Z nostalgia but because it looked great no one minds.
Image

Image
Gogeta has no point in this movie. He is just there for fan service. I loved the film and fight scene but I acknowledge it only exists for me to go "Awesome just like that other thing! Wow Gogeta!"
Gogeta is there because Goku couldn't go MUI at will at that point, so they needed some other way to take out Broly.
If that's the case, why waste an hour trying to learn the dance when it probably would have taken less than a minute for Goku to teleport to the Land of the Kais to grab some earrings?

There was no in-universe logical reason, they just wanted to have Gogeta in the movie.

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Re: I think its time to admit that Toyotaro is a terrible writer.

Post by Matches Malone » Thu Oct 29, 2020 1:23 am

Mad Swami wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:41 pm
I loved the film and fight scene but I acknowledge it only exists for me to go "Awesome just like that other thing! Wow Gogeta!"
That's exactly why it exists, as it was more or less based off of 3 older properties, Broly's first movie, Fusion Reborn, & the Bardock special. It looks amazing, but I really wish these resources and effort went into something original instead.

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Re: I think its time to admit that Toyotaro is a terrible writer.

Post by kemuri07 » Thu Oct 29, 2020 1:04 pm

DBS: Broly is shameless in its fanservice. But it's also one of the main reasons why it works: it knows what you want and is all too willing to give it to you. Broly aspires to be nothing more than a wrestling match between Goku/Vegeta and Broly. That's it. It's simple and that's why it works.

Fanservice does not only mean attempting 1:1 recreation of scenes from older media.

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Re: I think its time to admit that Toyotaro is a terrible writer.

Post by Matches Malone » Thu Oct 29, 2020 2:29 pm

kemuri07 wrote:
Thu Oct 29, 2020 1:04 pm
DBS: Broly is shameless in its fanservice. But it's also one of the main reasons why it works: it knows what you want and is all too willing to give it to you.
I agree with this, but I also wish they gave us something we didn't know we wanted until we got it.

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Re: I think its time to admit that Toyotaro is a terrible writer.

Post by Dragon Wukong » Thu Oct 29, 2020 7:26 pm

The Undying wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 3:38 pm
*snip*
That's brilliant detective work. And certainly something to keep an eye out for in the future.

Anyhow, whether Toyotaro is considered a good writer ultimately depends on what one values in a story. How much does a call-back or reference devalue the quality of something? Do certain similarities with prior arcs ruin it? Even if done for the sake of subversion from what may be viewed as typical? It depends on the viewer I suppose. I quite like the Moro arc though.

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Re: I think its time to admit that Toyotaro is a terrible writer.

Post by precita » Tue Nov 03, 2020 12:51 pm

I don't understand why people like Fused Zamasu splitting into multiple copies of himself in the manga climax. Not only is it something we've seen before (Cooler movie), but it's also kinda boring? In the anime it felt like Zamasu became this omnipotent energy being taking over the planet itself, there was no way to fight him anymore and the stakes were so high Zeno erasing everything felt like it had to happen. In the manga there's just an army of Zamasu clones, and Zeno wiping everything out just doesn't have the same impact. Besides that it feels like Trunks literally does nothing in the manga, he doesn't have a single moment of victory like the anime gives him.

Besides that all the build-up stuff the anime did in the arc was much better, with Trunks meeting Gohan's family and sleeping at their house, all the kid Trunks/Future Trunks moments, the explanation of the time rings and the stuff at Bulma's place. It really felt like they spent time getting Trunks integrated with the current cast whereas the manga just stays in the future for the latter half of the arc.

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Re: I think its time to admit that Toyotaro is a terrible writer.

Post by SupremeKai25 » Tue Nov 03, 2020 3:11 pm

Ironically the "Clone Zamasu" plot point might have worked better in the anime. It would've tied into the clone ability that Goku Black displayed in ep. 64:

Image

An endless army of clones that cannot be destroyed and constantly regenerate, all of which are controlled by the original Goku Black. Reminds you of something?

Image
And so by incorporating Goku's flesh into my being, I have assumed both the sins of mortal kind and the failure of divinity so they may never be repeated! That is the duty of a true God. That is why I do this. For the good of the cosmos. For a creation!

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Re: I think its time to admit that Toyotaro is a terrible writer.

Post by Mad Swami » Tue Nov 03, 2020 3:34 pm

SupremeKai25 wrote:
Tue Nov 03, 2020 3:11 pm
Ironically the "Clone Zamasu" plot point might have worked better in the anime. It would've tied into the clone ability that Goku Black displayed in ep. 64:

Image

An endless army of clones that cannot be destroyed and constantly regenerate, all of which are controlled by the original Goku Black. Reminds you of something?

Image
That's a really good idea. I liked the army of Zamasus a lot more than....him becoming the universe.... Plus it would have been way more interesting to see Vegito (Gogeta in a perfect world due to thematically fitting better) vs the Zamasus. However in saying that Merged Zamasu would have to be nerfed in the anime. Or maybe just by the time he uses that power. In the Anime if each Zamasu was as strong as the og than you'd just need Zeno and we'd have the same stupid ending all over again.
Last edited by Mad Swami on Tue Nov 03, 2020 3:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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