If Goten & Trunks Decided To Seriously Train Again And Reappear As Gotenks...

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If Goten & Trunks Decided To Seriously Train Again And Reappear As Gotenks...

Post by theherodjl » Fri Oct 16, 2020 4:49 am

What form are they more likely to show up as, SSJBE Gotenks or UI Gotenks?
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Re: If Goten & Trunks Decided To Seriously Train Again And Reappear As Gotenks...

Post by Matches Malone » Fri Oct 16, 2020 5:03 am

He wouldn't even have to train seriously for either, just a few push ups and some juice should be enough. This is after all the same series that made #17 just as strong as Blue by working in the woods.

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Re: If Goten & Trunks Decided To Seriously Train Again And Reappear As Gotenks...

Post by Jiren The Alpha » Fri Oct 16, 2020 6:45 am

Matches Malone wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 5:03 am
He wouldn't even have to train seriously for either, just a few push ups and some juice should be enough. This is after all the same series that made #17 just as strong as Blue by working in the woods.
You don't know how many push ups 17 did :wink:

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Re: If Goten & Trunks Decided To Seriously Train Again And Reappear As Gotenks...

Post by precita » Fri Oct 16, 2020 9:35 am

I really do not think any of the other Saiyans will ever get Blue or God forms. It seems they're content with keeping them Goku and Vegeta only (besides Vegetto and Gogeta).

Same reason Gohan never got Blue and probably never will. Nor did Future Trunks. So Gotenks probably won't either.

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Re: If Goten & Trunks Decided To Seriously Train Again And Reappear As Gotenks...

Post by JewyB » Fri Oct 16, 2020 10:41 am

Matches Malone wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 5:03 am
He wouldn't even have to train seriously for either, just a few push ups and some juice should be enough. This is after all the same series that made #17 just as strong as Blue by working in the woods.
I see this a lot as though we didnt just skip over most of Goku's training arcs where he gains unfathomable amounts of power off-screen.

We don't know how strong 17 has gotten but there are 13 years between seeing him in the Cell saga and leaving a guy with an unlimited supply of energy on an island full of monsters to fight off intergalactic poachers and also the dodgy canonicity of him training against Cell Jrs.

Considering Frieza got to God levels in 4 months and 17 also never trained, had a stronger base, and had 40 times as logn to train i dont think its unreasonable given what we have seen in the series.

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Re: If Goten & Trunks Decided To Seriously Train Again And Reappear As Gotenks...

Post by Matches Malone » Fri Oct 16, 2020 12:03 pm

JewyB wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 10:41 am
I see this a lot as though we didnt just skip over most of Goku's training arcs where he gains unfathomable amounts of power off-screen.
17 getting as strong as he did doing what he does would be like Goku getting that strong by farming. No matter how you look at it, it's terrible writing. We were told each time how Goku got strong, and each method was harder than the last.

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Re: If Goten & Trunks Decided To Seriously Train Again And Reappear As Gotenks...

Post by JewyB » Fri Oct 16, 2020 12:06 pm

Matches Malone wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 12:03 pm
JewyB wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 10:41 am
I see this a lot as though we didnt just skip over most of Goku's training arcs where he gains unfathomable amounts of power off-screen.
17 getting as strong as he did doing what he does would be like Goku getting that strong by farming. No matter how you look at it, it's terrible writing. We were told each time how Goku got strong, and each method was harder than the last.
Yes but you completely ignored my point about Frieza, 17 did what Frieza did from a higher point in a more believable time frame. And we dont have any idea how much 17 trains anyway, so we cant really compare it to Goku's farming.

Its not good writing but there is precedent for it in the series and his has been done in far worse ways. Again, it had been 13 years, not a week or so.

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Re: If Goten & Trunks Decided To Seriously Train Again And Reappear As Gotenks...

Post by Matches Malone » Fri Oct 16, 2020 12:12 pm

JewyB wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 12:06 pm
You completely ignored my point about Frieza.

We don't have any idea how much 17 trains anyway, so we cant really compare it to Goku's farming.
That's just as bad, and has been called out for years.

It doesn't matter if he trained for 100 years, he shouldn't be able to achieve what's only achievable through training with the likes of Whis, same goes for Freeza. That's not to say I'm against them getting that strong, but it should be done through the established method they set up.

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Re: If Goten & Trunks Decided To Seriously Train Again And Reappear As Gotenks...

Post by JewyB » Fri Oct 16, 2020 12:29 pm

Matches Malone wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 12:12 pm
That's just as bad, and has been called out for years.

It doesn't matter if he trained for 100 years, he shouldn't be able to achieve what's only achievable through training with the likes of Whis, same goes for Freeza. That's not to say I'm against them getting that strong, but it should be done through the established method they set up.
But it has never once been stated that you need to train with someone like Whis to achieve that power. Goku obtained it through a ritual, Vegeta trained off-screen with Whis, Frieza reached that level training alone, Hit reached that level through off-screen training, Jiren reached that level training alone, Broly reached this level in the space of an hour through being mad, Moro was at this level from eating, and a whole host of other characters from side arcs and the ToP.

The only characters we know who have accessed this level of power through training with angels for sure is Vegeta, even Toppo was trained by Belmod, not an angel.

So if anything, it was done through the established method that was set up, training through Whis is an outlier.

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Re: If Goten & Trunks Decided To Seriously Train Again And Reappear As Gotenks...

Post by Skar » Fri Oct 16, 2020 1:08 pm

Matches Malone wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 5:03 am
He wouldn't even have to train seriously for either, just a few push ups and some juice should be enough. This is after all the same series that made #17 just as strong as Blue by working in the woods.
In the manga, Goku said "#17 didn't do much of anything and about as strong as us" or something like that. I think #17's power-up might've been like a gag poking fun of GT to "subvert expectations". Toei came up with a crazy explanation for his power to justify it and they had two #17s fuse and absorb a bunch of energy to challenge SSJ4 Goku while Toriyama has him train on his own in normal gravity for a few years. If we were intended to some super special intense training, it probably would've been mentioned.

I'm not saying it's good writing and one of those "Toriyama wrote it so I'll try to accept it somehow" moments. I do that with most concepts in DBS that I've seen before in a different DB series and never considered them good ideas. I always thought Super 17's power was extreme so it's going to hard for me to get behind an individual #17 getting even stronger on his own in less time.

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Re: If Goten & Trunks Decided To Seriously Train Again And Reappear As Gotenks...

Post by Koitsukai » Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:10 pm

The kids, and their fusion, are too hot-headed(I don't think this word fits perfectly but I guess my point is seen) to even entertain the idea of UI.

Perfected Blue seems like a fair outcome. SSBE is not part of Goku's forms, and Vegeta got there by seeing himself left behind by his rival in a death or life situation, so I'm not sure what would be the trigger for Gotenks, besides a blue fusion -even a child's- would be strong enough to not require further evolutions. But it would be more likely they unlock SSBE than Sign.

Goku and Krilin got incredibly strong just by delivering milk and doing silly stuff, so I don't think it's impossible or weird for an infinite energy-SS-tier-android training with Cell Jrs for over a decade to become much stronger. Besides, we never saw him fighting god level characters, only SS3 and Dyspo. Goku's comment is too vague to consider, plus he can't sense his ki.
Not taking into account his fights with Saganbo because who knows what's been his training regime lately or if he has gotten that much stronger.

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Re: If Goten & Trunks Decided To Seriously Train Again And Reappear As Gotenks...

Post by pepd » Sat Oct 17, 2020 12:08 am

I'd say SSB, since they would only need to obtain SSG. UI wold require a huge change in their personalities
Matches Malone wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 5:03 am
He wouldn't even have to train seriously for either, just a few push ups and some juice should be enough. This is after all the same series that made #17 just as strong as Blue by working in the woods.
In the manga he is as strong as SS2-3 by training with Cell Jrs for years. Unless you are talking about an anime only SSB/UI Goten

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Re: If Goten & Trunks Decided To Seriously Train Again And Reappear As Gotenks...

Post by Matches Malone » Sat Oct 17, 2020 12:55 am

pepd wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 12:08 am
In the manga he is as strong as SS2-3 by training with Cell Jrs for years. Unless you are talking about an anime only SSB/UI Goten
It was definitely handled better in the manga. I kind of forgot about it to be honest.

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Re: If Goten & Trunks Decided To Seriously Train Again And Reappear As Gotenks...

Post by omaro34 » Mon Oct 19, 2020 10:48 pm

Let those kids age and develop more first before anything else
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