Kagari wrote: ↑Thu Nov 05, 2020 3:20 pm
GodVegetto91 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 05, 2020 4:20 am
Kagari wrote: ↑Sun Oct 25, 2020 12:25 pm
Eh, Gohan had a bigger role than Vegeta in the anime Universe Survival arc and Piccolo had a better role there than anything he did in the Boo arc, really. Same with Kuririn, who did nothing in the Boo arc and had been acting cowardly since Cell.
This.. Is self evidently and obviously false.. Since Vegeta was the one who got a few shots in on Jiren, fought back ragingly hard against him, even got a new form (SSBE) was praised by the Grand Priest, fought alongside Goku equally, and was one of the last to be ringed out!
Furthermore, he defeated a literal God of Destruction! (GoD Toppo!)
Overpowered him fair and squar. Even punched right through a Hakai blast!
Vegeta was most definitely treated better than Gohan during the ToP.
Quite frankly, I don’t understand why I even need to make this post...
I'm talking about the entire arc (which starts from episode 77 mind you), in which Gohan did far more than Vegeta in terms of actively contributing to the story. You're only focusing on the last handful of episodes (122-128).
Getting a few hits on Jiren ultimately means nothing, it didn't go anywhere and those episodes can be removed without anything changing. SSBE is arguably one of the worst forms so I'm not sure why that's being propped up here when it's just a bandaid catch up for Kaioken that happened 80 episodes ago. Sure, he beat Toppo but beating Dyspo was just as important and a lot of people tend to sleep on that fact.
Again, I'm talking about the entire 54 episode arc, in which Gohan contributed the most after Goku in terms of screen time and helping him to move the plot. Vegeta's not even around for most of the first 20 episodes.
That's just in the anime tho. And most of it feels like padding added by TOEI to extend the arc, since many things are not even relevant to the main plot (like the unique evolution that Gohan was looking for and that has led nowhere). Vegeta appeared less, but was more important in the most important part of the arc
And I don't know how SSBE being "bad" has to do with all this. It's a thing in both media and it's also important for the plot.
Magnificent Ponta wrote: ↑Sun Nov 15, 2020 6:52 am
GodPrince91 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 15, 2020 1:51 amSo I don't know how you assume toriyama didnt close the gap between the two?
The idea that Vegeta is somehow irrelevant to the story if he's not equal to Goku in power is manifestly false when you look at Toriyama's work. And railing at Toyotarou over the same issue and making out like it portends the end of Vegeta as a relevant character, or whatever (if it even is what you say it is - it bears repeating that
you don't know that yet) is seriously unwarranted.
Yeah, but it's good to take into account that the difference between Goku and Vegeta was never so astronomical at the beginning of an arc (assuming that this will be the case for the next saga after the Moro arc).
In the Boo saga he was off screen for most of the arc and during the BoG he was overcome only at the end (reaching Goku at the beginning of the next arc). Which means he needs a power up to stay relevant against the villains (especially since the next enemies will need to scale up to UI Goku).
In this case, Vegeta does not need to be as strong as Goku to be relevant to the story, but he needs to have close power to be relevant in the battles against the main villain. Most of the Z Fighters who didn't have this were sidelined from the plot (Piccolo, Gohan, Tien, Krillin)
