Do you miss the Super anime?

[FortuneSSJ]

Kinda. I don't watch much anime anymore, but Dragon Ball is something special which catches my attention every time it news material.
I don't miss the production problems and much less the fans complaining about anything every week, but I miss look forward to the next episode every week and crash some servers.

[BagetaSama]

I miss the excitement of a new episode every week but I don’t miss the constant negativity from the fandom

Pretty much, yeah.

As far as Toei's execution and writing are concerned, no. But I think if the anime had more cohesive, solidly bound material to adapt from beyond a few vague outlines that an entire team of scriptwriters were forced to interpret, I wouldn't mind seeing it return.

If the anime were to become a manga adaptation then it sure as fuck should never return.

[Kinokima]

There are always new places you can take characters, Dragon Ball just doesn’t want to

Is there enough to hold an ongoing story with 10+ arcs ?

I mean I don’t know but I certainly think there is room for much be more depth with Goku & Vegeta than what they did

[LoganForkHands73]

Sure, I miss it. Looking forward to it every weekend coincided with a lot of good times in my life... is it too early to be nostalgic for it? Ugh, I must be getting old.

Like others have said, I think Dragon Ball should always have representation in both comic and animated forms. They should compliment each other. This has become harder to do now that both mediums have such radically different takes on the same plots, but it still applies. If I'm being honest, I don't think some of the earlier manga arcs stand quite so well on their own without the movies and anime accompanying them. Character dynamics for example feel more fleshed out and natural in the anime, which also had a greater eye for nailing more emotional and cathartic scenes. Toyotaro's manga at its least heartful almost feels mechanical and soulless in places, however I think the Tournament of Power was the only place where this was distractingly noticeable. As much as their removal streamlines the plot, seeing memorable sideshows like Katopesla and the Universe 6 Namekians get unceremoniously jobbed hard in the manga kills me a bit inside every time.

I think it's fairly appropriate that in the absence of the anime, the manga has become increasingly anime-like in its longform storytelling presentation. Many aspects of the Moro arc feel filler-esque, but for all its flaws, it feels truly complete and standalone already. Toyotaro has fleshed out the characters and storyline more than enough, so it's almost tailor made for the anime staff to cut-and-paste it wholehog.

[Gokitalo]

I definitely miss it. One of the things I really loved about Super early on was the comedy, and it felt great getting that endorphin rush every episode. I loved the excitement of the Tournament of Power, too. I do hope the rumors of the anime continuing in some form, be it movies or film, are true, as I'd love to see more.

[precita]

The character interactions of stuff we never saw back in DBZ was the best part. Some great examples:

- Gohan as a father taking care of baby Pan. Baby Pan in general. More Great Saiyaman stuff and Gohan's return to being a fighter in the TOP.

- Vegeta wanting to stay behind because Bulma was pregnant, then showing how to change Bra's diapers to Trunks. Vegeta showing how much he cares for Bulma in general, "My Buuuuulma!"

- Future Trunks got to meet Gohan as an adult and see how different he was than in his timelime, we got to see kid Trunks meet his Future counterpart, we got to see him see 18 as a wife of Krillin. Kid Trunks' focus in the Zamasu arc is underrated.

- 17's return was fantastic, he meets Goku for the first time, the handshake he and Piccolo did as a throwback to their battle in the Cell arc, 17 and 18 teaming up in the tournament and protecting Goku. (when they were originally designed to kill him)

- Mr. Satan is now all friendly and integrated into Goku and Gohan's family, and it's a lot of fun seeing how Mr. Satan interacts with them now when even in the early/mid Boo saga he still wasn't on friendly terms.

- Master Roshi made a great return to the spotlight after doing nothing in DBZ. The techniques he used in the TOP were very well done.

- Krillin as a police cop is a nice change of pace for him.

- Supreme Kai gets more characterisation, I always liked him in the Boo arc so it's nice to see more of him.

- Freeza's return in the TOP was done so well it pretty much makes up for his Movie 15 appearance being somewhat disappointing


Of course it's not all done well, as most noticed Goku's characterisation to be rather shaky at times, Vegeta is now back to wanting to surpass Goku every time he gets a new form, and Trunks/Goten barely get anything to do. Yamcha being treated like a meme in-universe when previous in DBZ he wasn't treated as such just because Toei is aware of how the fandom views him is also kinda weird.

[UpFromTheSkies]

Yeah, I do miss getting a new episode of Dragon Ball every week, even though I wasn't a big fan of the animation style and quality. I hope if they bring it back they make it seasonal instead of a year round weekly show so episodes can have a bigger budget, I'd love for it to look like the Broly movie.

[Kataphrut]

Yeah, it was fun keeping up with it at the time. I was working out in the bush when it was airing, so it was a nice thing to tune into every Sunday at midday to catch the latest.

The hope is that if it does come back, they'll be more on top of their game with the production, and that they'll use the Shintani designs.

[Cipher]

Like others have said, I think Dragon Ball should always have representation in both comic and animated forms. They should compliment each other. This has become harder to do now that both mediums have such radically different takes on the same plots, but it still applies. If I'm being honest, I don't think some of the earlier manga arcs stand quite so well on their own without the movies and anime accompanying them. Character dynamics for example feel more fleshed out and natural in the anime, which also had a greater eye for nailing more emotional and cathartic scenes. Toyotaro's manga at its least heartful almost feels mechanical and soulless in places, however I think the Tournament of Power was the only place where this was distractingly noticeable. As much as their removal streamlines the plot, seeing memorable sideshows like Katopesla and the Universe 6 Namekians get unceremoniously jobbed hard in the manga kills me a bit inside every time.

Just to offer another perspective, a lot of the anime's extra content and character-spotlighting (of both main cast and bit characters like the many fighters at the Tournament of Power), actually winds up taking me out of what should be its heavier hitting moments because they make the whole story feel less sincere. The transparency of trying to give everyone their moment, even when it doesn't fit the tone or pacing of the story, and especially when it relies on exaggerated character traits, means that when what might otherwise have landed as sincere moments do come, it's hard to give them the benefit of the doubt. "Is this a meaningful moment for Gohan, or is he just do for another 20-minute spotlight, as X other character just got?"

I understand why people might like those or find the manga lacking if they come into it second with that experience on their minds, and I'm not trying to preach anyone off of which version of this silly prequel series they prefer. But I do want to offer the perspective that for some readers less has wound up being more, and not just in terms of streamlining plots.

I think it's also worth considering the manga as it's own product without having the anime on the back of your mind. You mention the U6 Namekians, but but the expectation that they be memorable sideshows in the first place isn't promised anywhere in the manga itself. Were the manga the only version ... I mean, you'd obviously have people interested in them because they're alternate Namekians ... but I don't think anyone would be left feeling like something was missing for their just being non-plot-relevant characters to round out U6's roster. It's asking an unfair amount of conscious effort from people coming off of the anime to go into it with that perspective, but I do think that's the perspective the manga deserves to be read with, ultimately--at least as an experiment before preparing any scathing critiques. (Stand-alone Super manga (+movie) reactions are going to be kind of interesting to see in coming years as they become more common.)

[LoganForkHands73]

Just to offer another perspective, a lot of the anime's extra content and character-spotlighting (of both main cast and bit characters like the many fighters at the Tournament of Power), actually winds up taking me out of what should be its heavier hitting moments because they make the whole story feel less sincere. The transparency of trying to give everyone their moment, even when it doesn't fit the tone or pacing of the story, and especially when it relies on exaggerated character traits, means that when what might otherwise have landed as sincere moments do come, it's hard to give them the benefit of the doubt. "Is this a meaningful moment for Gohan, or is he just do for another 20-minute spotlight, as X other character just got?"

I understand why people might like those or find the manga lacking if they come into it second with that experience on their minds, and I'm not trying to preach anyone off of which version of this silly prequel series they prefer. But I do want to offer the perspective that for some readers less has wound up being more, and not just in terms of streamlining plots.

I think it's also worth considering the manga as it's own product without having the anime on the back of your mind. You mention the U6 Namekians, but but the expectation that they be memorable sideshows in the first place isn't promised anywhere in the manga itself. Were the manga the only version ... I mean, you'd obviously have people interested in them because they're alternate Namekians ... but I don't think anyone would be left feeling like something was missing for their just being non-plot-relevant characters to round out U6's roster. It's asking an unfair amount of conscious effort from people coming off of the anime to go into it with that perspective, but I do think that's the perspective the manga deserves to be read with, ultimately--at least as an experiment before preparing any scathing critiques. (Stand-alone Super manga (+movie) reactions are going to be kind of interesting to see in coming years as they become more common.)

From my perspective, if the manga were the only version of Super out there, then yeah, with all due respect, something would feel missing. I don't see the point of introducing tonnes of new characters and bringing back older characters to fill out ranks when you have no intention of focusing on any of them. Toyotaro could have shrunk the scale of the tournament to five fighters per universe and little would have changed.

I think the anime was for the most part smartly selective in deciding which opponents were worth giving "moments". Most of the chosen ones brought some much needed extra flavour to the table. If every single character was given focus, then yeah of course it would be unbearable, I don't expect Muay-Thai Jobber #9 from Universe 10 to get anything substantial, but when the whole premise of the tournament involves introducing powerful new warriors from the eight universes, I don't feel wrong for expecting some of them to be given power-related context for why they were chosen to be there. In the manga, the only ones who are given anything are Kale, Ribrianne, the invisible fighters from U4 and the Pride Troopers, and even then it's generally far less than what the anime gave. If there's no point or interest in seeing any of them do anything since they're arbitrarily considered irrelevant to the "main" plot (whatever it really is in this case, I mean it's a tournament about dudes fighting each other in a battle royale), I don't understand the appeal at all.

When it comes to the U6 Namekians, the obvious extrapolation from their presence is that they're probably going to get at least one interaction with Piccolo. Even if it's not promised, in as far as a story can promise anything, that feels like a reasonable expectation. To have them do absolutely nothing for the whole arc except get eliminated by their own berserk teammate definitely feels like a waste.

In terms of streamlining the plot, I get the argument and even agree with it to an extent, the anime could have certainly trimmed a lot of fat. However, the manga takes too much of an opposite extreme for my tastes, streamlining everything down to the point where it barely even feels like a story, just a series of notes being checked off. Kale going on a team-killing rampage and wiping out several universes in one go feels more transparent an attempt to hurry the plot along than any sentimental moment in the anime. That's not to say that there's nothing good in the manga version, there absolutely is. It has tighter plotting and more thematic cohesion, but to fall back on an overused axiom, it's good in concept, critically flawed in execution (imo).

But anyway, my original point was more about the other cast members were given character moments throughout the whole anime, so the build-up to them being chosen for the Tournament of Power felt more organic. In the manga, Gohan, Roshi, Krillin, etc. are all total non-entities until that arc, and even then, most of them can be considered as irrelevant as their jobber opponents.

[precita]

The sequence of Goku/Gohan's simultaneous kamehameha wiping out the last three Universe 2 love fighters and the two U6 Namekians is one of my favorite anime moments, let alone all those scenes with 17 and 18 protecting Goku and acting like his bodyguard. This stuff isn't in the manga, and the anime gives us some thematic character dynamics we never saw back in DBZ. I also really liked how each ep of the anime focused on a different fighter, and we saw tons of attacks and strategy we usually never see in Dragonball. Not to mention the scene of Caulifa/Kale wiping out the other 5 Pride Troopers working together, or Freeza and Gohan against the Yadrat fighter. Master Roshi's usage in the anime was also far greater and less nonsensical than his manga counterpart and justified his role in the tournament over a stronger fighter.

The anime did take out some fodder characters quickly off-screen and I remember people complaining about it when it aired that the anime "wasted some fighters" so you can see if the anime really did do what the manga did, there would be even more complaining. Also seeing how the anime treated Tenshinhan, I guarantee if Krillin, Piccolo and 18 were treated like that people would have been pissed. 18 making it so far into the tournament and taking out so many fighters was the biggest surprise for me because I didn't expect her to be treated so well. "It's the human thing to do."

[TheSaiyanGod]

The sequence of Goku/Gohan's simultaneous kamehameha wiping out the last three Universe 2 love fighters and the two U6 Namekians is one of my favorite anime moments, let alone all those scenes with 17 and 18 protecting Goku and acting like his bodyguard. This stuff isn't in the manga, and the anime gives us some thematic character dynamics we never saw back in DBZ. I also really liked how each ep of the anime focused on a different fighter, and we saw tons of attacks and strategy we usually never see in Dragonball. Not to mention the scene of Caulifa/Kale wiping out the other 5 Pride Troopers working together, or Freeza and Gohan against the Yadrat fighter. Master Roshi's usage in the anime was also far greater and less nonsensical than his manga counterpart and justified his role in the tournament over a stronger fighter.

To be honest, although Roshi's participation in ToP was cool and such, he didn't exactly justify his choice over stronger allies (like Goten, Trunks and even Yamcha). Because he basically eliminated opponents that in the grand scheme of things did not represent a threat to the heroes. Yeah, he did this by showing that at times the technique and experience are more valuable than the power level, but it was not really substantial for the plot or the themes of that arc

In the manga, despite all the controversy of the fight against Jiren, Roshi was instrumental in Goku's evolution and the awakening of the Ultra Instinct, which ended up being decisive for U7's victory, at the same time that he actually demonstrated the ability to defeat stronger enemies with his technique and experience. For the plot, he was much more important

[precita]

Yeah, I do think they should have went with someone stronger over Roshi, but the anime writers at least justified his inclusion. He took out more fighters than Krillin or Tenshinhan did, and we saw him win using tactics back to the original Dragonball rather than using brute force since he was obviously one of the weaker fighters in the tournament in general.

Tbh I'm not sure why Toriyama made Boo sleep through two tournaments. Boo has such a fun moveset material and given he's still generally powerful I don't know why he keeps him out of the fights. You'd think given he kept Fat Boo alive at the end of DBZ (instead of say Super/Kid Boo never spitting him out), you'd think he would want to use him more, but eh.

[Lord Beerus]

Not really. The anime was a mess from writing standpoint for large chunks of its runtime and it largely relied on spectacle to cover up it's very overt haphazard composition.

Honestly though, Super as a whole, in my opinion, has not really done enough from a storytelling perspective to justify it's existence. And it's a shame because a while I was high on the concept of Super, Toriyama, Toei and Toyotaro seems content on staying in its safe zone and unwilling to do anything intriguing or experimental with the main cast from a characterisation standpoint for any continuous period. You can only throw so many new power ups and transformations into the mix before I become numb of the whole charade. And that's mainly because all the new power ups and transformations don't do anything to compliment or enhance or expand on the personalities of those it directly or indirectly affects.

I mean, Ultra Instinct was the best, and most original, concept that Super had going for it. It was thematically tied to the upper echelon characters introduced in the show and even it had a simple a yet distinct and appealing aesthetic. Only for it to just became another generic power-up very quickly.

[Kagari]

Not really. The anime was a mess from writing standpoint for large chunks of its runtime and it largely relied on spectacle to cover up it's very overt haphazard composition.

Honestly though, Super as a whole, in my opinion, has not really done enough from a storytelling perspective to justify it's existence. And it's a shame because a while I was high on the concept of Super, Toriyama, Toei and Toyotaro seems content on staying in its safe zone and unwilling to do anything intriguing or experimental with the main cast from a characterisation standpoint for any continuous period. You can only throw so many new power ups and transformations into the mix before I become numb of the whole charade. And that's mainly because all the new power ups and transformations don't do anything to compliment or enhance or expand on the personalities of those it directly or indirectly affects.

I mean, Ultra Instinct was the best, and most original, concept that Super had going for it. It was thematically tied to the upper echelon characters introduced in the show and even it had a simple a yet distinct and appealing aesthetic. Only for it to just became another generic power-up very quickly.

This about sums it up, though I don't care for UI personally.

The anime has some good character moments and maybe 20 or so episodes I'd revisit but as a whole the series is simply... not good. It's certainly far below the quality a series as long standing as DB should have and that's really a shame.

[TobyS]

If the anime were to become a manga adaptation then it sure as fuck should never return.

You'll be here bitching every week about how dragonball is ruined forever now like everyone else and you know it.

[precita]

The anime has some good character moments and maybe 20 or so episodes I'd revisit but as a whole the series is simply... not good. It's certainly far below the quality a series as long standing as DB should have and that's really a shame.

It's the best post-Boo continuation we'll ever get (or since Beerus/Whis debut in Movie 14 if you count that), for me. I do agree the aspect of Super Saiyan God and Blue was completely botched to the point where it feels the power ups don't matter anymore and now other mortals seemingly have power comparable to the Gods...but...it is what it is. The only thing I would really do is ease back on the focus of Goku/Vegeta and focus on the rest of the cast and jump ahead to EOZ so we can see a timeskip, but I'm content with what we got even with the shaky start of early Super being meh.

As someone who marathoned through all of Super over the last month, I'm surprised how enjoyable most of it was even with the usual snags and inconsistencies. I consider Super's true start to be the U6 arc besides some of the early fillers, so I view that as eventual set-up for the TOP (which it was since Zeno is introduced at the end), and thought it got pretty enjoyable from there.

[BagetaSama]

If the anime were to become a manga adaptation then it sure as fuck should never return.

You'll be here bitching every week about how dragonball is ruined forever now like everyone else and you know it.

I mean if the anime were to simply become a manga adaptation, then yeah I probably would have that mentality. Although, I do think that the Moro arc has been by far the best of Toyotaro's arcs thus far, so maybe he could compete with the experience of the anime.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

I do, although I don't mind the anime having a breather after going on for 131 episodes. I fell behind on most series that were a part of my childhood (Pokemon, Yu-Gi-Oh!, Beyblade to name but a few), although I've been determined to always keep up with Dragon Ball. I've done that and rewatched Super, and even OG Dragon Ball since the former went on hiatus in 2018, hoping to be able to rewatch all of Z by the time Super's back too, that would certainly be a successful break.