What if the God Hierarchy would look like this?

[GodVegetto91]

Kaio

Dai Kaio

Kaioshin

Dai Kaioshin

Zeno

Dai Zeno

Zenoshin

Dai Zenoshin.

Would you be surprised?

What would you think about that?

[UpFromTheSkies]

I wouldn't be surprised. I've always suspected there were other Zeno, he seems like a child so I assumed their must be adults too. Maybe there is an entire race of Zeno and each one creates their own multiverse.

[ChronoTwigger]

I'll be a little confused. If Zeno can destroy everything, and it look only Dragon Balls can restore stuff, the 'boss' of Zeno cannot prevent Zeno acting. It will be only a nominal boss.
To me, it look the thing reached his cap of hierarchy, although there could be some indepth... maybe Zeno is not a 'natural' entity and it was made by someone. But that will not create other layers of responsibility.

[Xeogran]

Zeno erased an entire timeline, so that pretty much confirms him as end of the hierarchy. Making anyone else this late would be really hard to explain and would come as forced.

[theherodjl]

Zeno isn't actually omnipotent so there is room for something above even him. I'm not sure if its a whole nother pantheon like how the Kaio are set up but I can at least see a "Super Zeno" of some kind. It might be Zalama for all we know.

[GodVegetto91]

I'll be a little confused. If Zeno can destroy everything, and it look only Dragon Balls can restore stuff, the 'boss' of Zeno cannot prevent Zeno acting. It will be only a nominal boss.
To me, it look the thing reached his cap of hierarchy, although there could be some indepth... maybe Zeno is not a 'natural' entity and it was made by someone. But that will not create other layers of responsibility.

Zeno is not omnipotent. Nor omnipresent or omniscient!

[Polyphase Avatron]

The problem with introducing more and more ranks of higher gods is that they have to be progressively less and less competent in order to explain why they never solved any of the previous problems with their powers. When we get to Zeno, he literally has the mindset of a child. If you introduce an even more powerful god, it might have to be something like H.P. Lovecraft's Azathoth, the "blind idiot god" that can't even think or reason, it's just asleep and will instantly destroy everything when it wakes up.

[GodVegetto91]

The problem with introducing more and more ranks of higher gods is that they have to be progressively less and less competent in order to explain why they never solved any of the previous problems with their powers. When we get to Zeno, he literally has the mindset of a child. If you introduce an even more powerful god, it might have to be something like H.P. Lovecraft's Azathoth, the "blind idiot god" that can't even think or reason, it's just asleep and will instantly destroy everything when it wakes up.

Doesn’t sound like a “God” to me if they can’t even use basic reason and logic...

[Magnificent Ponta]

The problem with introducing more and more ranks of higher gods is that they have to be progressively less and less competent in order to explain why they never solved any of the previous problems with their powers. When we get to Zeno, he literally has the mindset of a child. If you introduce an even more powerful god, it might have to be something like H.P. Lovecraft's Azathoth, the "blind idiot god" that can't even think or reason, it's just asleep and will instantly destroy everything when it wakes up.

I was just thinking - the way I'd be most likely to reconcile myself to there being yet more levels of the Divine Hierarchy is if the level above Zeno is basically a toddler, and the level above that is literally an egg.

[PurestEvil]

That would be totally whack.

[Polyphase Avatron]

The problem with introducing more and more ranks of higher gods is that they have to be progressively less and less competent in order to explain why they never solved any of the previous problems with their powers. When we get to Zeno, he literally has the mindset of a child. If you introduce an even more powerful god, it might have to be something like H.P. Lovecraft's Azathoth, the "blind idiot god" that can't even think or reason, it's just asleep and will instantly destroy everything when it wakes up.

Doesn’t sound like a “God” to me if they can’t even use basic reason and logic...

Well that's the point of Lovecraft's stories. Humanity and everything we know about the universe is irrelevant, there is no grand plan behind everything, and all of reality is just the dream of Azathoth, which will end when he wakes up. Humans are about as low on the food chain as you can go. Existence itself is absurd and there's no point in living. That's why a god like that works for that kind of story.

But that's not the kind of story Dragonball is supposed to be. Yet it's already become somewhat Lovecraftian with the revelation that all of existence could be instantly wiped out by the whims of a child.

[ChronoTwigger]

I'll be a little confused. If Zeno can destroy everything, and it look only Dragon Balls can restore stuff, the 'boss' of Zeno cannot prevent Zeno acting. It will be only a nominal boss.
To me, it look the thing reached his cap of hierarchy, although there could be some indepth... maybe Zeno is not a 'natural' entity and it was made by someone. But that will not create other layers of responsibility.

Zeno is not omnipotent. Nor omnipresent or omniscient!

I was not precise.
Is the same acting of Zeno that hint there's no bigger authorities above him. I don't care the extension of his power, can be the feeble divinity ever... But if an OMNIPOTENT that's above you can't stop you, the same definition of 'omnipotent' fail. As no one can undo Zeno acts, obviously there's no omnipotents around.

[Polyphase Avatron]

I'll be a little confused. If Zeno can destroy everything, and it look only Dragon Balls can restore stuff, the 'boss' of Zeno cannot prevent Zeno acting. It will be only a nominal boss.
To me, it look the thing reached his cap of hierarchy, although there could be some indepth... maybe Zeno is not a 'natural' entity and it was made by someone. But that will not create other layers of responsibility.

Zeno is not omnipotent. Nor omnipresent or omniscient!

I was not precise.
Is the same acting of Zeno that hint there's no bigger authorities above him. I don't care the extension of his power, can be the feeble divinity ever... But if an OMNIPOTENT that's above you can't stop you, the same definition of 'omnipotent' fail. As no one can undo Zeno acts, obviously there's no omnipotents around.

Super Shenron undid Zeno's acts by restoring the multiverse.

[ChronoTwigger]

Zeno is not omnipotent. Nor omnipresent or omniscient!

I was not precise.
Is the same acting of Zeno that hint there's no bigger authorities above him. I don't care the extension of his power, can be the feeble divinity ever... But if an OMNIPOTENT that's above you can't stop you, the same definition of 'omnipotent' fail. As no one can undo Zeno acts, obviously there's no omnipotents around.

Super Shenron undid Zeno's acts by restoring the multiverse.

...and from what I've understood the same wish can be negated if going against Zeno will.

[SupremeKai25]

I don't like this at all. It's an actual asspull.

"Oh, you thought Zeno and the Grand Priest were at the very top of the multiverse? Well guess what, you're wrong! Here's another set of new deities that have somehow never been involved in anything until now but were totally planned and present since the beginning!"

It also begs the question... if there are deities even higher than Zeno, then how come Zamasu (a mere Supreme Kai) was able to accomplish so much unopposed?

I mean, following your logic there is a "Grand Grand Zeno" (yes, it sounds dumb because the plot point in itself would be dumb), a "Supreme Grand Zeno", a "Supreme, Supreme Grand Zeno", and yet none of them did anything at all while Zamasu, a Supreme Kai (so a God veeeery low on your list), was ravaging the entire multiverse?

Where even are these people? I mean, going back to the Future Trunks arc, Zamasu searched far and wide in each timeline to make sure no deity could stop his plans, and he did not find any evidence whatsoever of the existence of these hypothetical deities above Zeno himself. How come?

That's kind of the problem. The Future Trunks arc is, effectively, a "multiversal" story arc. Literally every single deity from every single universe in the cosmos was wiped out. Grand Zeno himself was involved. Don't you think that it'd be a dumb asspull if it was revealed all along that there is an even higher Pantheon of deities? What were these people doing while Zamasu was massacring everyone in the cosmos then? After this arc, the writers have written themselves into a corner. They can't expand the God Pantheon even more because then there are these massive plot holes.

[GodVegetto91]

I don't like this at all. It's an actual asspull.

"Oh, you thought Zeno and the Grand Priest were at the very top of the multiverse? Well guess what, you're wrong! Here's another set of new deities that have somehow never been involved in anything until now but were totally planned and present since the beginning!"

It also begs the question... if there are deities even higher than Zeno, then how come Zamasu (a mere Supreme Kai) was able to accomplish so much unopposed?

I mean, following your logic there is a "Grand Grand Zeno" (yes, it sounds dumb because the plot point in itself would be dumb), a "Supreme Grand Zeno", a "Supreme, Supreme Grand Zeno", and yet none of them did anything at all while Zamasu, a Supreme Kai (so a God veeeery low on your list), was ravaging the entire multiverse?

Where even are these people? I mean, going back to the Future Trunks arc, Zamasu searched far and wide in each timeline to make sure no deity could stop his plans, and he did not find any evidence whatsoever of the existence of these hypothetical deities above Zeno himself. How come?

That's kind of the problem. The Future Trunks arc is, effectively, a "multiversal" story arc. Literally every single deity from every single universe in the cosmos was wiped out. Grand Zeno himself was involved. Don't you think that it'd be a dumb asspull if it was revealed all along that there is an even higher Pantheon of deities? What were these people doing while Zamasu was massacring everyone in the cosmos then? After this arc, the writers have written themselves into a corner. They can't expand the God Pantheon even more because then there are these massive plot holes.

Zeno

Grand Zeno

Supreme Zeno

Grand Supreme Zeno.

[SupremeKai25]

I don't like this at all. It's an actual asspull.

"Oh, you thought Zeno and the Grand Priest were at the very top of the multiverse? Well guess what, you're wrong! Here's another set of new deities that have somehow never been involved in anything until now but were totally planned and present since the beginning!"

It also begs the question... if there are deities even higher than Zeno, then how come Zamasu (a mere Supreme Kai) was able to accomplish so much unopposed?

I mean, following your logic there is a "Grand Grand Zeno" (yes, it sounds dumb because the plot point in itself would be dumb), a "Supreme Grand Zeno", a "Supreme, Supreme Grand Zeno", and yet none of them did anything at all while Zamasu, a Supreme Kai (so a God veeeery low on your list), was ravaging the entire multiverse?

Where even are these people? I mean, going back to the Future Trunks arc, Zamasu searched far and wide in each timeline to make sure no deity could stop his plans, and he did not find any evidence whatsoever of the existence of these hypothetical deities above Zeno himself. How come?

That's kind of the problem. The Future Trunks arc is, effectively, a "multiversal" story arc. Literally every single deity from every single universe in the cosmos was wiped out. Grand Zeno himself was involved. Don't you think that it'd be a dumb asspull if it was revealed all along that there is an even higher Pantheon of deities? What were these people doing while Zamasu was massacring everyone in the cosmos then? After this arc, the writers have written themselves into a corner. They can't expand the God Pantheon even more because then there are these massive plot holes.

Zeno

Grand Zeno

Supreme Zeno

Grand Supreme Zeno.

You could call them A, B, C, and D and my arguments wouldn't change.

Also I'm pretty sure Zeno's complete name is "Grand Zeno", I'm certain that's the case for the dub at least. Which means that Zeno's superior would literally be called Grand Grand Zeno. Or Supreme Grand Zeno. Either way, it's ridiculous.

[GodVegetto91]

I don't like this at all. It's an actual asspull.

"Oh, you thought Zeno and the Grand Priest were at the very top of the multiverse? Well guess what, you're wrong! Here's another set of new deities that have somehow never been involved in anything until now but were totally planned and present since the beginning!"

It also begs the question... if there are deities even higher than Zeno, then how come Zamasu (a mere Supreme Kai) was able to accomplish so much unopposed?

I mean, following your logic there is a "Grand Grand Zeno" (yes, it sounds dumb because the plot point in itself would be dumb), a "Supreme Grand Zeno", a "Supreme, Supreme Grand Zeno", and yet none of them did anything at all while Zamasu, a Supreme Kai (so a God veeeery low on your list), was ravaging the entire multiverse?

Where even are these people? I mean, going back to the Future Trunks arc, Zamasu searched far and wide in each timeline to make sure no deity could stop his plans, and he did not find any evidence whatsoever of the existence of these hypothetical deities above Zeno himself. How come?

That's kind of the problem. The Future Trunks arc is, effectively, a "multiversal" story arc. Literally every single deity from every single universe in the cosmos was wiped out. Grand Zeno himself was involved. Don't you think that it'd be a dumb asspull if it was revealed all along that there is an even higher Pantheon of deities? What were these people doing while Zamasu was massacring everyone in the cosmos then? After this arc, the writers have written themselves into a corner. They can't expand the God Pantheon even more because then there are these massive plot holes.

Zeno

Grand Zeno

Supreme Zeno

Grand Supreme Zeno.

You could call them A, B, C, and D and my arguments wouldn't change.

Also I'm pretty sure Zeno's complete name is "Grand Zeno", I'm certain that's the case for the dub at least. Which means that Zeno's superior would literally be called Grand Grand Zeno. Or Supreme Grand Zeno. Either way, it's ridiculous.

You seem really on edge for some reason.. Does this topic involve something personal for you?

[SupremeKai25]

You seem really on edge for some reason.. Does this topic involve something personal for you?

If you think this is being "on edge", you need to interact with more people.

[GodVegetto91]

You seem really on edge for some reason.. Does this topic involve something personal for you?

If you think this is being "on edge", you need to interact with more people.

This entire comment of yours proves my point even further.