DBS treated Goten and Trunks really bad

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super michael
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Re: DBS treated Goten and Trunks really bad

Post by super michael » Thu Jan 14, 2021 6:30 pm

Kataphrut wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:52 pm
super michael wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 6:47 pm
Exactly and thanks to Goku explaning the flaws and what is better, that shows us how smart Goku is. Then when we see them training together both strong, then we can think their gains will be big.

Do you understand my point why I am against Freeza and Tagoma training? Tagoma is stated to be Zarbon or Dodoria level, which is weak level. There is nothing special about Tagoma other than being Freeza punching bag. Tagoma can do all he wants but he won't hurt Freeza.

Goten and Trunks they are rivals so their training would be super effective.
With Tagoma, wasn't the idea that Freeza was honing his energy by beating the guy to the brink of death but stopping just before going over the edge? It wasn't exactly a partnership of equals. Plus, I'd say that's a pretty creative way to have Freeza train, and fits with what he'd later do to refine the form with his image training prior to the ToP.

Either way, it's just one possible version of that story and you can take it or leave it- Toriyama didn't consider it worth elaborating how he did it, because it wasn't important.
Freeza got advance technology and the whole of space to train, if Freeza got advanced technology that regenerated his body pieces into whole, then surely they could have used that for Freeza training. Maybe have a machine they stole or built that helps Freeza focus his energy and ki. I just don't see how beating a weakling to inches of his life is anyway creative.

Goku using Kaioken and shooting multiple Kamehameha at himself in a high gravity now that is creative writing there. Goku had to use senzu beans since he was nearly dead by his training.

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Re: DBS treated Goten and Trunks really bad

Post by ABED » Thu Jan 14, 2021 7:26 pm

super michael wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:15 am
ABED wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 7:03 pm
super michael wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 6:47 pm


Exactly and thanks to Goku explaning the flaws and what is better, that shows us how smart Goku is. Then when we see them training together both strong, then we can think their gains will be big.

Do you understand my point why I am against Freeza and Tagoma training? Tagoma is stated to be Zarbon or Dodoria level, which is weak level. There is nothing special about Tagoma other than being Freeza punching bag. Tagoma can do all he wants but he won't hurt Freeza.

Goten and Trunks they are rivals so their training would be super effective.
I get it but sorry I don't care because there are far bigger issues in that film than the training. The diminishing returns of using Freeza being the fundamental one.

Trunks and Goten not being used is a missed opportunity and would've been preferable to Muten Roshi not due to power levels but because his journey is over whereas Goten and Trunks are young and there are places to go with them.
True your right even Master Roshi said it in the 23rd Martial Art Tournament that he was leaving it to the younger generation, which is why Master Roshi didn't compete in the 23rd Martial Art Tournament. Basically Master Roshi has done everything he had to do in his life and now it is the younger generation to have their turn.

They claim that Goten and Trunks would be childish and immature, but that is a lame reason to be honest. Bulma acted all childish and immature to Freeza, yet there is no problem there. They try so hard to get rid of them for no reason.

Freeza doesn't look like he has reached his limit, meaning that he can still grow stronger or do you mean about Toriyama making the statement that Freeza power will never surpass Beerus no matter how much Freeza trains?
No I mean they keep trotting out Freeza and to less and less effect. He was once the emperor of the universe and now he's a Saturday morning cartoon villain who keeps coming back after every defeat. You can practically hear him running away saying "I'll get you next time!"
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Re: DBS treated Goten and Trunks really bad

Post by Kataphrut » Thu Jan 14, 2021 8:08 pm

super michael wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 6:30 pm
Kataphrut wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:52 pm
super michael wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 6:47 pm
Exactly and thanks to Goku explaning the flaws and what is better, that shows us how smart Goku is. Then when we see them training together both strong, then we can think their gains will be big.

Do you understand my point why I am against Freeza and Tagoma training? Tagoma is stated to be Zarbon or Dodoria level, which is weak level. There is nothing special about Tagoma other than being Freeza punching bag. Tagoma can do all he wants but he won't hurt Freeza.

Goten and Trunks they are rivals so their training would be super effective.
With Tagoma, wasn't the idea that Freeza was honing his energy by beating the guy to the brink of death but stopping just before going over the edge? It wasn't exactly a partnership of equals. Plus, I'd say that's a pretty creative way to have Freeza train, and fits with what he'd later do to refine the form with his image training prior to the ToP.

Either way, it's just one possible version of that story and you can take it or leave it- Toriyama didn't consider it worth elaborating how he did it, because it wasn't important.
Freeza got advance technology and the whole of space to train, if Freeza got advanced technology that regenerated his body pieces into whole, then surely they could have used that for Freeza training. Maybe have a machine they stole or built that helps Freeza focus his energy and ki. I just don't see how beating a weakling to inches of his life is anyway creative.

Goku using Kaioken and shooting multiple Kamehameha at himself in a high gravity now that is creative writing there. Goku had to use senzu beans since he was nearly dead by his training.
They used the advanced regeneration technology on Tagoma to heal up his injuries. Why would Freeza exert himself to near death when he could have someone else do it for him? I'd say that's a pretty effective way to demonstrate the difference between him and Goku.

Again, I'd say that's a creative and in-character idea for them to go with, especially because as I said this is just one version of the story.

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Re: DBS treated Goten and Trunks really bad

Post by Kagari » Fri Jan 15, 2021 6:17 pm

Yeah, if anyone was treated poorly it was these two. Other characters at least got to participate.

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Re: DBS treated Goten and Trunks really bad

Post by Gogeta SSJ Blue » Fri Jan 15, 2021 6:39 pm

Kagari wrote:
Fri Jan 15, 2021 6:17 pm
Yeah, if anyone was treated poorly it was these two. Other characters at least got to participate.
I agree that they were treated poorly.

They still get some relevance as little as it is on BoG but it was it!

Since then they were almost forgotten...

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Re: DBS treated Goten and Trunks really bad

Post by batistabus » Fri Jan 15, 2021 8:50 pm

I really enjoyed these characters in the original manga, but if anything, the Boo arc proved that they were absolutely not mature enough to participate in handing global threats. And unlike back then, Gotenks isn't strong enough to make a difference in Super.

That said, young Trunks definitely had a role in the Future Trunks arc. If you don't count that, I still wouldn't say they were treated "really bad". No treatment is better than bad treatment.

Perhaps interning at MIR has been the responsibility they needed to grow up a bit.

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Re: DBS treated Goten and Trunks really bad

Post by Basaku » Sat Jan 16, 2021 3:04 pm

I've accepted the fact that they won't do anything with these 2 until/when/if the franchise moves past EOZ. And yes, they will stay toddler-size until one day before EOZ events.

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Re: DBS treated Goten and Trunks really bad

Post by precita » Sat Jan 16, 2021 7:07 pm

Even if they do go to EOZ someday, the problem is Goten then just becomes another Gohan or Yamcha expy. EOZ Goten looks to be Gohan or Yamcha 2.0, and I don't think he would even do anything major not counting Gotenks.

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Re: DBS treated Goten and Trunks really bad

Post by Alruneia » Sat Jan 16, 2021 9:07 pm

precita wrote:
Sat Jan 16, 2021 7:07 pm
Even if they do go to EOZ someday, the problem is Goten then just becomes another Gohan or Yamcha expy. EOZ Goten looks to be Gohan or Yamcha 2.0, and I don't think he would even do anything major not counting Gotenks.
That's his starting point, yeah. EoZ Goten is a bit of a playboy and prefers dating over fighting, and he may or may not be better at the former than at the latter. (GT isn't taken into account at all here, since they wouldn't be able to not directly overwrite it if they ever made new post-EoZ stories.) But he will be able to change and grow over the course of the story. And isn't that why we want to go to EoZ and beyond in the first place? To enable characters to no longer have to stay the same, instead of playing around in one little time period forever as if the characters are nothing more than action figures being smacked together? I feel like I just figured out something about modern Dragon Ball with that last bit there...
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Re: DBS treated Goten and Trunks really bad

Post by super michael » Sat Jan 16, 2021 9:15 pm

Alruneia wrote:
Sat Jan 16, 2021 9:07 pm
precita wrote:
Sat Jan 16, 2021 7:07 pm
Even if they do go to EOZ someday, the problem is Goten then just becomes another Gohan or Yamcha expy. EOZ Goten looks to be Gohan or Yamcha 2.0, and I don't think he would even do anything major not counting Gotenks.
That's his starting point, yeah. EoZ Goten is a bit of a playboy and prefers dating over fighting, and he may or may not be better at the former than at the latter. (GT isn't taken into account at all here, since they wouldn't be able to not directly overwrite it if they ever made new post-EoZ stories.) But he will be able to change and grow over the course of the story. And isn't that why we want to go to EoZ and beyond in the first place? To enable characters to no longer have to stay the same, instead of playing around in one little time period forever as if the characters are nothing more than action figures being smacked together? I feel like I just figured out something about modern Dragon Ball with that last bit there...
In Dragon Ball Online which is beyond EOZ both Goten and Trunks are Kenjutsu masters, basically they are swordsmen. Even if in EOZ they became lazy, that doesn't mean they have to stay lazy. GT has no connection to DBS, they changed so much like these below:

- Young Pilaf gang.
- KibitoKai no longer exist since they split up.
- Freeza Golden form which isn't present in GT.
- Godly transformation like Goku and Vegeta.

Basically Toriyama did everything possible so there is no connection between DBS and GT, although too bad Toriyama destroyed the connection between DBS to EOZ since there so many retcon and contradiction.

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Re: DBS treated Goten and Trunks really bad

Post by Big Black Sayian » Sun Jan 17, 2021 4:57 pm

Kagari wrote:
Fri Jan 15, 2021 6:17 pm
Yeah, if anyone was treated poorly it was these two. Other characters at least got to participate.
Makes you wonder if someone involved involved with marketing hates them lol. They represent the target demographic yet get no screen time. Then again the target demo these days probably just boil down to Goku fans :p

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Re: DBS treated Goten and Trunks really bad

Post by Kagari » Sun Jan 17, 2021 7:55 pm

Big Black Saiyan wrote:
Sun Jan 17, 2021 4:57 pm
Kagari wrote:
Fri Jan 15, 2021 6:17 pm
Yeah, if anyone was treated poorly it was these two. Other characters at least got to participate.
Makes you wonder if someone involved involved with marketing hates them lol. They represent the target demographic yet get no screen time. Then again the target demo these days probably just boil down to Goku fans :p
The irony is they're often still in the marketing despite not doing anything in the actual show.

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Re: DBS treated Goten and Trunks really bad

Post by Koitsukai » Mon Jan 18, 2021 12:39 am

Alruneia wrote:
Sat Jan 16, 2021 9:07 pm
And isn't that why we want to go to EoZ and beyond in the first place? To enable characters to no longer have to stay the same, instead of playing around in one little time period forever as if the characters are nothing more than action figures being smacked together? I feel like I just figured out something about modern Dragon Ball with that last bit there...
Yeah, I think you did.

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Re: DBS treated Goten and Trunks really bad

Post by super michael » Mon Jan 18, 2021 10:19 am

It was mentioned that C17 has got a family, why not make C17 kids part of the main cast and allow Goten and Trunks to grow up.

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Re: DBS treated Goten and Trunks really bad

Post by precita » Mon Jan 18, 2021 5:31 pm

Given Goten has the same design as Goku but as a kid, you'd think they would want to market Goten a bit more. It is really strange how Toriyama just doesn't care about him.

Obviously kid Trunks is a bit of a different story, and he did get good characterisation and scenes in the Zamasu arc even if he was left out of all of the fighting.

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