Everything Wrong with Dragon Ball Super

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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SupremeKai25
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Re: Everything Wrong with Dragon Ball Super

Post by SupremeKai25 » Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:54 pm

All those who thought DBS was going to be shit based on ep. 5 sure ended up looking like clowns when ep. 57, 66, 109, 110, 129, 130, 131, Broly dropped...

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Skar
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Re: Everything Wrong with Dragon Ball Super

Post by Skar » Tue Nov 23, 2021 4:48 pm

Jinto wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:51 pmAND that lead to my point stating that the most pertinent flaw of DBS was its ANIMATION.
We can easily draw the map ! Everybody held their breath from ep 1-4 (with ep2 having some promises to it) then ep5 dropped, DBS was a shit interquel confirmed, from there on everything it did was arbitrary "bad to decent at best" and after Black saga (especially ep56 with Naotoshi shida) it was "decent to fun nostalgia" which is still the general opinion about DBS.

It's not that it didn't have merit, it is that it didn't deserve to have any merit in the eyes of critics, "bad writing", "bad character" and so on, felt more like excuses than true investigation.
It's fine if you believe it has more merits but I think it's better to state them than to keep arguing all the criticism is false or people are unable to notice its merits. From what I've seen, general opinions about DBS are the same as for any average anime or revival. A lot of them have decent production value and might get praised for it but doesn't hide if it's mostly nostalgia or fan service. I'm not a critic and I thought DBS was a decent enough revival but there's many modern anime that I enjoyed more overall.

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Re: Everything Wrong with Dragon Ball Super

Post by Jinto » Tue Nov 23, 2021 10:54 pm

Skar wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 4:48 pm
Jinto wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:51 pmAND that lead to my point stating that the most pertinent flaw of DBS was its ANIMATION.
We can easily draw the map ! Everybody held their breath from ep 1-4 (with ep2 having some promises to it) then ep5 dropped, DBS was a shit interquel confirmed, from there on everything it did was arbitrary "bad to decent at best" and after Black saga (especially ep56 with Naotoshi shida) it was "decent to fun nostalgia" which is still the general opinion about DBS.

It's not that it didn't have merit, it is that it didn't deserve to have any merit in the eyes of critics, "bad writing", "bad character" and so on, felt more like excuses than true investigation.
It's fine if you believe it has more merits but I think it's better to state them than to keep arguing all the criticism is false or people are unable to notice its merits. From what I've seen, general opinions about DBS are the same as for any average anime or revival. A lot of them have decent production value and might get praised for it but doesn't hide if it's mostly nostalgia or fan service. I'm not a critic and I thought DBS was a decent enough revival but there's many modern anime that I enjoyed more overall.
The consistencies given to each character and the worldbuilding, could you imagine this some decade earlier ? Yet Zen'o, Grand Priest, Whis, Beerus are now inseparable part of DB AND it works, there is no inconsistencies to their absence in past stories (unlike some Otsutsuki :wave: )
Also Vegeta goes on his streak to be one of best rival ever written, the presence of Beerus kickstarted his development when confronted with past and the fear of losing his family to a literal hungry walking universe buster, diving him deeper in how soft he has become and how much he made suffering which explain why Bulla was born and Bulma talk about having the next one. Aw !!

I also like that they don't force outclassed character into the story when they don't know what to do with them. As I already said, it seems that for Akira Toriyama, a character reached the end of his arc when he reach a peace between what he is and what he can't do. A statu-quo so to say but better. This is why Piccolo, Gohan,... Don't play big part, because he also know conflict drive a story, these don't have anymore conflict.
Goku has an eternal conflict (fighting strong guys) and Vegeta has one because he feels undeserving of his current situation hence his inclusion.
Need more ?

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Skar
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Re: Everything Wrong with Dragon Ball Super

Post by Skar » Wed Nov 24, 2021 2:03 am

Jinto wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 10:54 pmThe consistencies given to each character and the worldbuilding, could you imagine this some decade earlier ? Yet Zen'o, Grand Priest, Whis, Beerus are now inseparable part of DB AND it works, there is no inconsistencies to their absence in past stories (unlike some Otsutsuki :wave: )
Also Vegeta goes on his streak to be one of best rival ever written, the presence of Beerus kickstarted his development when confronted with past and the fear of losing his family to a literal hungry walking universe buster, diving him deeper in how soft he has become and how much he made suffering which explain why Bulla was born and Bulma talk about having the next one. Aw !!

I also like that they don't force outclassed character into the story when they don't know what to do with them. As I already said, it seems that for Akira Toriyama, a character reached the end of his arc when he reach a peace between what he is and what he can't do. A statu-quo so to say but better. This is why Piccolo, Gohan,... Don't play big part, because he also know conflict drive a story, these don't have anymore conflict.
Goku has an eternal conflict (fighting strong guys) and Vegeta has one because he feels undeserving of his current situation hence his inclusion.
Need more ?
See I think this is a better approach. Attacking other anime or trying to invalidate criticism has never worked to convince anyone to reevaluate DBS. I think you were confusing the most critical DB fans who quit watching it by now with the general anime fan base. People can still consider a series having merits but overall average and not much of it as standout or memorable. There are a few hundred anime released in the last decade. DBS wasn't considered one of the worst or in the bottom half of them.

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