Everything Wrong with Dragon Ball Super

[Grimlock]

If you're tired of it, you can always come up with "Everything Right with Dragon Ball Super" any time. Since I'm in a good mood thanks to the possibility of more Saiyan lore being presented in the next chapter, I'm willing to say a few positive things about the series, so I support such thread, if any of you decide to do it.

I know I shouldn't be this positive, it's Dragon Ball Super after all, learned my lesson after all these years. I'm most certainly just setting myself up for yet another disappointment but I'm putting faith on Toyotaro, and I'm not a faith man. He has done good things, like finally using Dragon Ball Online's Yadorats, a detailed Majin Buu saga for Trunks, properly depicting Super Saiyan 2 Trunks and made good usage of Dai Kaioshin and Uub.

[Magnificent Ponta]

If you're tired of it, you can always come up with "Everything Right with Dragon Ball Super" any time. Since I'm in a good mood thanks to the possibility of more Saiyan lore being presented in the next chapter, I'm willing to say a few positive things about the series, so I support such thread, if any of you decide to do it.

Why, that's right neighbourly of you. While I'm not personally interested in pursuing 'this is so bad/no way it's good/nuh-uh/yuh-huh' exchanges (I find relentless 'positivity-for-the-sake-of-it' to be as corrosive as relentless 'negativity-for-the-sake-of-it'; it's all just digging a trench to fight in), I always welcome and encourage thoughtful and reasonable contributions from anyone who cares enough to make them, in The Super Re-Read - which is still ongoing, and covering the Moro arc right now.

[Gogeta SSJ Blue]

One thing I did not liked at all was the retcon about Potara not being permanent on non-Godly users.

The narrative may be boring sometimes.

And other things here and there seemed a little bit rushed too.

[TheSaiyanGod]

I understand that since DBS ended (along with the hype and euphoria of the final episodes), it has become a trend to say that Super sucks and is not as good as everyone thought or something. Particularly, when it comes to anime, I do believe that
without the discussions and hype of the weekly releases of the episodes, some of them have not aged well and some parts feel dragged and inconsistent.

But I really think that some people are pushing things too far right now. Most of the things you have said (and things that other people have criticized here as well) are your personal opinions and not plotholes or necessarily problems (some of them can be said about the original DB as well). And it got to the point where people were saying that any fan would create something better. This seems to me to be more willing to attack the series than well-founded criticism.

And it's funny people here saying that GT is better, when in fact GT not only has a lot of the same problems that the Super has, but also enhances them even more.

[super michael]

I understand that since DBS ended (along with the hype and euphoria of the final episodes), it has become a trend to say that Super sucks and is not as good as everyone thought or something. Particularly, when it comes to anime, I do believe that
without the discussions and hype of the weekly releases of the episodes, some of them have not aged well and some parts feel dragged and inconsistent.

But I really think that some people are pushing things too far right now. Most of the things you have said (and things that other people have criticized here as well) are your personal opinions and not plotholes or necessarily problems (some of them can be said about the original DB as well). And it got to the point where people were saying that any fan would create something better. This seems to me to be more willing to attack the series than well-founded criticism.

And it's funny people here saying that GT is better, when in fact GT not only has a lot of the same problems that the Super has, but also enhances them even more.

One of GT problem was that no one surpass Goku in the hero team, however they didn't make Goku more childish and more dumb. Every character shined except for the humans who retired. In GT they didn't force the gag, the gag was normally funny and didn't contradict what was established through DB and DBZ.
The character in GT aged, which is something DBS is afraid to do so.

In Super they like to exaggerate the worst trait of a character to unbelievable level, like the high level of Krillin being a coward and the way he got ring out in the ToP that was too much.
Goku constantly saying and doing dumb things too much can get annoying, especially when he does things that he already learned or knew.
The manga Goku does dumb things but they don't go overboard, so that makes it ok and funny. Remember too much of something can get old.

Chi Chi she was unbearable in DBS anime, everytime she appear it wasn't funny at all. Her development from the Buu Saga, Yo Son Goku Ova and BoG all down the drain. However in the manga Chi Chi still kept her development, so DBS manga Chi Chi is cool in my book.

[Grimlock]

Why, that's right neighbourly of you. While I'm not personally interested in pursuing 'this is so bad/no way it's good/nuh-uh/yuh-huh' exchanges (I find relentless 'positivity-for-the-sake-of-it' to be as corrosive as relentless 'negativity-for-the-sake-of-it'; it's all just digging a trench to fight in), I always welcome and encourage thoughtful and reasonable contributions from anyone who cares enough to make them, in The Super Re-Read - which is still ongoing, and covering the Moro arc right now.

Fair point. Might appear in that thread, if I ever decide to read Universe Survival saga one day, as recommended by you.

And it's funny people here saying that GT is better, when in fact GT not only has a lot of the same problems that the Super has, but also enhances them even more.

Mind to provide a few examples? Specifically ones that "enhances" Dragon Ball Super's problems.

[Matches Malone]

When DB was brought back to us I was happy as hell. But when it aired and arc after an arc it was nothing more but disappointment, I couldn't stop thinking that maybe Dragon Ball should stay dead forever.

Everything I like about Super comes from Battle of Gods, but then again, the real BoG is labelled as "Z" (another disadvantage for Super and it's inferior retelling) so it's not really "Super".

Even GT didn't do that much of a harm to my point of view to Dragon Ball as whole.

Same here. After seeing BOG I thought things could only get better, as not only was it a great movie, it opened the door to all kinds of new possibilities. That amazing movie was unfortunately followed by Minus and RF, then a rushed Super announcement soon after RF's debut. It was then I knew BOG was a fluke and that we were in for a very disappointing journey.

What BOG did better than everything that followed was balance the familiar with the new. It had a nostalgic feel to it, but it never dominated the movie, as it was perfectly balanced by the new aspects introduced.

The biggest difference between GT and Super is that GT never became the face of the franchise and how it should be represented, so its flaws remained contained in its limited 65 episode run.

I understand that since DBS ended it has become a trend to say that Super sucks and is not as good as everyone thought or something.

It's funny people here saying that GT is better, when in fact GT not only has a lot of the same problems that the Super has, but also enhances them even more.

Fans were criticizing Super as it was airing, the only difference between now and then is that there were new weekly episodes that were constantly changing the course of discussions, so no one spent too much time on one particular thing.

Personally, I believe both Super and GT are at best mediocre sequels to DB, so regardless of which is better, they're both disappointing.

[sunsetshimmer]

Same here. After seeing BOG I thought things could only get better, as not only was it a great movie, it opened the door to all kinds of new possibilities. That amazing movie was unfortunately followed by Minus and RF, then a rushed Super announcement soon after RF's debut. It was then I knew BOG was a fluke and that we were in for a very disappointing journey.

I already felt disappointment in air when DBS got announced but its opening kinda gave me some hope. That shot of Goku and Vegeta walking towards some kind of portal-like thing was promising. I believed they will make Goku & Vegeta visit another universes and fight there. See, DBZ expanded universe over original series by showing us there is something beyond Earth and that there are aliens out there, including Goku and Piccolo, even gods. GT went even further focusing on expanding whole universe, showing a lot of new planets and races. I believed DBS will go 'even further beyond' showing us other universes, but they didn't. They barely showed any scenes from other universes and most of them didn't include U7 characters. It ended up on just two tournaments between universes and the only story driven arc with villain took place in another timeline rather than another universe. Honestly, SDBH anime already did better use of DBS expanded universes than series itself did.

[SupremeKai25]

One thing I did not liked at all was the retcon about Potara not being permanent on non-Godly users.

The narrative may be boring sometimes.

And other things here and there seemed a little bit rushed too.

Z's problem. Z introduced that plot hole.

Old Supreme Kai said that the Potara fusion was permanent, and yet Vegito defused inside of Majin Buu's body for no factual reason.

Super corrected a plot hole caused by Z.

[FPSSJ4_Goku]

I don't have any problem with Toyotaro to be honest, I mean it isn't perfect and he does some mistakes but those mistakes are not enough to ruin the manga. When I read the manga I am excited to read the next chapter. If I have to rate the manga, I would give it a 9/10.
I have never thought the manga was annoying and when it is funny I found it funny.

However Toei are the one who ruins DBS anime with their forced gags and doing countless gag to make their character appear that they have downgraded. Toei was so predictable that I could even guess what would happen before it happened and I would say I knew it, Toei are so bad that they are so predictable. There was time I thought, how many times is this going to keep happening this is getting old now.
If I have to rate the anime, I would give it a 5/10 a passing grade but with many things wrong.

It would be cool if transformations like Super Saiyan 4 would make it into DBS or maybe combine Super Saiyan 4 with God Ki, since that would result in a good design. Super Saiyan 4 is already a good transformation.

I'm not sure that Super Saiyan 4 should return in Super; some things should just keep their place in GT. As for god ki-infused Super Saiyan 4, Super Dragon Ball Heroes has that with Limit Breaker Super Saiyan 4. I think that transformation should've been the original Super Saiyan God instead of the glorified Kaioken that we got in 2013.

[SupremeKai25]

I do love some of the arguments I'm seeing here:

"Toei doesn't know how to write Super, they suck!"

"Also, Toriyama should recycle a transformation that appeared only in non-canon Toei videogames and shows!"

See, when I say that the haters can't even agree on what they want to complain about, I mean it.

[FPSSJ4_Goku]

I made a new topic called Everything Dragon Ball Super Did Right, go check it out.

[VegettoEX]

See, when I say that the haters can't even agree on what they want to complain about, I mean it.

The issue is yours: you’re conflating different folks’ different opinions on different issues into a singular hivemind boogeyman that doesn’t exist.

The actual truth of the matter is that everyone holds different, granular, nuanced opinions on things, and these opinions are subject to change over time.

Have genuine conversations with real, individual people, rather than the imaginary consensus you’ve fabricated in your mind.

[FPSSJ4_Goku]

[SupremeKai25]

See, when I say that the haters can't even agree on what they want to complain about, I mean it.

The issue is yours: you’re conflating different folks’ different opinions on different issues into a singular hivemind boogeyman that doesn’t exist.

The actual truth of the matter is that everyone holds different, granular, nuanced opinions on things, and these opinions are subject to change over time.

Have genuine conversations with real, individual people, rather than the imaginary consensus you’ve fabricated in your mind.

So basically what OP did at the beginning when he pretended to speak for everyone and said stuff like "we all watched Super for ep. 130", yet you said nothing then. Interesting how this works.

[FPSSJ4_Goku]

See, when I say that the haters can't even agree on what they want to complain about, I mean it.

The issue is yours: you’re conflating different folks’ different opinions on different issues into a singular hivemind boogeyman that doesn’t exist.

The actual truth of the matter is that everyone holds different, granular, nuanced opinions on things, and these opinions are subject to change over time.

Have genuine conversations with real, individual people, rather than the imaginary consensus you’ve fabricated in your mind.

So basically what OP did at the beginning when he pretended to speak for everyone and said stuff like "we all watched Super for ep. 130", yet you said nothing then. Interesting how this works.

I'd advise you not to argue with the website owner. I'm not the strongest ki blast in the arsenal, but I'm not an idiot. Take it back. Come on.

[super michael]

I don't have any problem with Toyotaro to be honest, I mean it isn't perfect and he does some mistakes but those mistakes are not enough to ruin the manga. When I read the manga I am excited to read the next chapter. If I have to rate the manga, I would give it a 9/10.
I have never thought the manga was annoying and when it is funny I found it funny.

However Toei are the one who ruins DBS anime with their forced gags and doing countless gag to make their character appear that they have downgraded. Toei was so predictable that I could even guess what would happen before it happened and I would say I knew it, Toei are so bad that they are so predictable. There was time I thought, how many times is this going to keep happening this is getting old now.
If I have to rate the anime, I would give it a 5/10 a passing grade but with many things wrong.

It would be cool if transformations like Super Saiyan 4 would make it into DBS or maybe combine Super Saiyan 4 with God Ki, since that would result in a good design. Super Saiyan 4 is already a good transformation.

I'm not sure that Super Saiyan 4 should return in Super; some things should just keep their place in GT. As for god ki-infused Super Saiyan 4, Super Dragon Ball Heroes has that with Limit Breaker Super Saiyan 4. I think that transformation should've been the original Super Saiyan God instead of the glorified Kaioken that we got in 2013.

I don't see any problem with Super Saiyan 4 appearing in Super, I mean Toriyama didn't have a problem adding Broly who was a non canon movie character. When it comes to design wise Super Saiyan 4 looks better than every Saiyan transformation that the Saiyan has shown.

Beside Vegeta has complete control of his Oozaru form, it would be ashame for Vegeta not to have access to his Oozaru powers in anyway.
Broly has access to his Oozaru powers in his human form, but he loses 100% complete control.

@SupremeKai25 tell me this do you think fans like watching Goten and Trunks being all hyped and motivated, just for their parents and family to tell them that they can't or keeping secrets? The only time they were not forbidden was when they battled that snake before BoG, BoG against Beerus and in Copy Vegeta saga which they got locked in a ship by accident.

It was mentioned that Toei used amateur writers or interns to write DBS anime, why would they do that. They should hire professsional writers not amateur interns. Leave the interns for small IP or project, don't make the interns do huge IP like Dragon Ball.

[VegettoEX]

So basically what OP did at the beginning when he pretended to speak for everyone and said stuff like "we all watched Super for ep. 130", yet you said nothing then. Interesting how this works.

I did indeed make a post in response to the OP earlier in this thread. It's right on the last page:

More than anything else, I would encourage people to not necessarily be so hyperbolic with their statements. "Everything Wrong with Dragon Ball Super" may be begrudgingly-necessary when you're developing something to work against some kind of recommendation algorithm, but that's just not necessary on a traditional forum. Your thread is guaranteed to appear; you don't have to fight for attention.

Moderators and administrators call things when they see them and when they can do so.

[SupremeKai25]

So basically what OP did at the beginning when he pretended to speak for everyone and said stuff like "we all watched Super for ep. 130", yet you said nothing then. Interesting how this works.

I did indeed make a post in response to the OP earlier in this thread. It's right on the last page:

More than anything else, I would encourage people to not necessarily be so hyperbolic with their statements. "Everything Wrong with Dragon Ball Super" may be begrudgingly-necessary when you're developing something to work against some kind of recommendation algorithm, but that's just not necessary on a traditional forum. Your thread is guaranteed to appear; you don't have to fight for attention.

Moderators and administrators call things when they see them and when they can do so.

My apologies, I didn't see that post.

@SupremeKai25 tell me this do you think fans like watching Goten and Trunks being all hyped and motivated, just for their parents and family to tell them that they can't or keeping secrets? The only time they were not forbidden was when they battled that snake before BoG, BoG against Beerus and in Copy Vegeta saga which they got locked in a ship by accident.

It was mentioned that Toei used amateur writers or interns to write DBS anime, why would they do that. They should hire professsional writers not amateur interns. Leave the interns for small IP or project, don't make the interns do huge IP like Dragon Ball.

Where was it mentioned that Toei used "amateur writers or interns" to write DBS? I seriously doubt that a series as big as Dragon Ball Super would be written by amateur writers.

[super michael]

Where was it mentioned that Toei used "amateur writers or interns" to write DBS? I seriously doubt that a series as big as Dragon Ball Super would be written by amateur writers.

Sorry it looks like I am wrong, I might have heard so much from member saying it is done by interns instead of experienced writers, that I actually thought there was a real source. Looks like I am wrong and no source exist.