If Vegeta’s “goal” is TRULY to surpass Kakkarot.. Then he’s definitely going about it THE WRONG WAY!

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If Vegeta’s “goal” is TRULY to surpass Kakkarot.. Then he’s definitely going about it THE WRONG WAY!

Post by GodVegetto91 » Tue Jan 19, 2021 8:04 pm

It’s a simple, self evident, commonly known, and obvious fact that the Angelic Perfected Ultra Instinct route is ALWAYS going to be superior to the God of Destruction route... There’s just no room for debate here. Especially after today’s chapter.. Whis revealed that there are varying degrees of Ultra Instinct, and at the presumed pinnacle of it all, you have the Grand Priest standing at the top! I’m sorry, but I don’t see a “God of Destruction Vegeta” EVER approaching the Grand Priest’s level..

I’m not saying that Vegeta won’t improve doing this now all of a sudden.. I’m sure he will make some really nice gains! And he might even become the best possible version of himself!

But if his “GOAL” is to surpass Goku, he’s obviously going about it the WRONG way!

However....! If his goal is simply to become stronger the natural way and (the easiest!) way, without any hindrances to his own natural way of doing things, thereby simply becoming the best possible version (of himself) that he can possibly be without UI, then yes, I think this is a really good way of going about things! Combining Lord Beerus’ many Godly Techniques and “Destruction Power” with said Spirit Control training can really bring Vegeta to a nice and impressive level of overall power and ability.

Just not on the level of the high tier Angels... That is all.
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Re: If Vegeta’s “goal” is TRULY to surpass Kakkarot.. Then he’s definitely going about it THE WRONG WAY!

Post by Gogeta SSJ Blue » Tue Jan 19, 2021 8:11 pm

Let me tell you this!

I don't really think he will surpass UI Goku ever but at least be on the same level as him might still be possible.

With this new power-up from Beerus training he should close the nowadays existent gap in the power scale when in comparison to UI Goku.

Vegeta should be much stronger than he was before his Spirit Control in Yardrat that is for sure!

But he still might choose to follow Goku's path of attaining UI yet!

So, it would be better to just wait and see, how big will his character developement may represent in the end of this same arc after all.

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Re: If Vegeta’s “goal” is TRULY to surpass Kakkarot.. Then he’s definitely going about it THE WRONG WAY!

Post by TBMx » Tue Jan 19, 2021 8:48 pm

Yeah, but his stated goal is to surpass Goku, so it don't make sense, does it.

Why doesn't it suit him again? They've shown UI Omen isn't blank faced and mindless anymore. They had Vegeta calm and balance his mind with spirit control meditation. He polished it more than Goku's.

Beerus can use UI for brief periods and his heart isn't peaceful.

Roshi's a human pervert and he's got faux UI without even being trained by Whis or even anyone for it.

So why is Vegeta still so bad at it? I'm confused. :crazy:

Wouldn't he at least have Roshi's faux UI at this point? I don't get it.

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Re: If Vegeta’s “goal” is TRULY to surpass Kakkarot.. Then he’s definitely going about it THE WRONG WAY!

Post by Kinokima » Tue Jan 19, 2021 8:51 pm

Do we really need 3 separate threads about Vegeta. Can you just bring these points up in another thread that was already created. It’s getting ridiculous especially since all these threads are essentially complaining about the same thing.

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Re: If Vegeta’s “goal” is TRULY to surpass Kakkarot.. Then he’s definitely going about it THE WRONG WAY!

Post by batistabus » Tue Jan 19, 2021 9:01 pm

Just because all angels are likely more powerful than all Gods of Destruction, that doesn't mean Vegeta couldn't surpass Goku with a God of Destruction technique. Now, I don't think he will in the end, but he can certainly close the gap.

Despite having some degree of God ki, and the fact that humans almost never surpass gods, Goku was stronger than Kaioshin without god ki. Broly was stronger than Goku without god ki. Vegeta still has room to improve, so the path of a God of Destruction might be what he's looking for. There's no reason Vegeta couldn't surpass Beerus...he's certainly more motivated.

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Re: If Vegeta’s “goal” is TRULY to surpass Kakkarot.. Then he’s definitely going about it THE WRONG WAY!

Post by Gogeta SSJ Blue » Tue Jan 19, 2021 9:24 pm

batistabus wrote:
Tue Jan 19, 2021 9:01 pm
Just because all angels are likely more powerful than all Gods of Destruction, that doesn't mean Vegeta couldn't surpass Goku with a God of Destruction technique. Now, I don't think he will in the end, but he can certainly close the gap.

Despite having some degree of God ki, and the fact that humans almost never surpass gods, Goku was stronger than Kaioshin without god ki. Broly was stronger than Goku without god ki. Vegeta still has room to improve, so the path of a God of Destruction might be what he's looking for. There's no reason Vegeta couldn't surpass Beerus...he's certainly more motivated.
That is exactly what I have been saying!

At least he should be able to close the gap in power to Goku.

It is not obligatory to surpass him even if that is his "own" goal.

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Re: If Vegeta’s “goal” is TRULY to surpass Kakkarot.. Then he’s definitely going about it THE WRONG WAY!

Post by GodVegetto91 » Tue Jan 19, 2021 10:43 pm

Kinokima wrote:
Tue Jan 19, 2021 8:51 pm
Do we really need 3 separate threads about Vegeta. Can you just bring these points up in another thread that was already created. It’s getting ridiculous especially since all these threads are essentially complaining about the same thing.
If you don’t like something. Look away.. Or better still, block me! That way you don’t have to see it. But whining about it is not going to help anything, and in fact will only make it worse. It’s one of the lowest thing you can do. And certainly no one likes people who whine about such trivial things. You truly do have massive issues it seems. As for me making threads where I complain about Vegeta??? This will be my last one.
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Re: If Vegeta’s “goal” is TRULY to surpass Kakkarot.. Then he’s definitely going about it THE WRONG WAY!

Post by Kinokima » Tue Jan 19, 2021 10:47 pm

GodVegetto91 wrote:
Tue Jan 19, 2021 10:43 pm
Kinokima wrote:
Tue Jan 19, 2021 8:51 pm
Do we really need 3 separate threads about Vegeta. Can you just bring these points up in another thread that was already created. It’s getting ridiculous especially since all these threads are essentially complaining about the same thing.
If you don’t like something. Look away.. Or better still, block me! That way you don’t have to see it. But whining about it is not going to help anything, and in fact will only make it worse. It’s one of the lowest thing you can do. And certainly no one likes people who whine about such trivial things. You truly do have massive issues it seems. As for me making threads where I complain about Vegeta??? This will be my last one.

I don’t think I have massive issues because I point out we don’t need three threads talking about essentially the exact same thing.

I am not trying to attack you but you can bring these points up in an already existing thread. There are current threads about Vegeta’s new power and one about him not getting UI.

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Re: If Vegeta’s “goal” is TRULY to surpass Kakkarot.. Then he’s definitely going about it THE WRONG WAY!

Post by Cipher » Tue Jan 19, 2021 11:24 pm

He probably wasn't ever going to surpass him with Ultra Instinct, so if anything trying something else seems like a risk worth taking.

You can out-strong anything in DB, which is as close to a universal rule as its world has.

Do I think the story is going to end with him actually being on top? No; but I think there's more to do with him by having him develop laterally than always just being Goku, one step removed. And he can certainly stay relatively caught up to wherever Goku is via his own means.

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Re: If Vegeta’s “goal” is TRULY to surpass Kakkarot.. Then he’s definitely going about it THE WRONG WAY!

Post by Lord Frieza » Wed Jan 20, 2021 7:50 am

Well this is a bit of reach given we don’t even know what this technique is yet. Also UI is not infallible, which is the whole point of Whis’s defeat of Goku in the new chapter. In the anime Jiren held his own against UI with raw power alone.

Also Vegeta seems to have always been rather good at judging when something doesn’t suit him. Even during his most arrogant period in the Android Arc, he apparently chose not to use Grade 3 due to it’s obvious weakness. He’s never even attempted to obtain SS3, as far as we know, for the same reason. Also during Super he’s undergone some incredibly growths in power and has at times been equal to or surpassed Goku for a time. True this started with his training with Whis alongside Goku but since then his greatest gains have been via him doing his own thing, like his time chamber training, his personal growth during the ToP and going to Yardrat.

So with that in mind, Vegeta is doing the right thing. What’s the point in him trying to gain UI if it doesn’t gel with him? If he’s never going to master it like Goku has, then it’s pretty worthless. Better to follow his own path and obtain an potential equal yet different and more compatible type of power.

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Re: If Vegeta’s “goal” is TRULY to surpass Kakkarot.. Then he’s definitely going about it THE WRONG WAY!

Post by TBMx » Wed Jan 20, 2021 8:13 am

How is Vegeta still worse at emptying his mind than Mr Popo, after 4 years of Angel training and months of Spirit control meditation? It's insane how little he progresses.

Its why I'm so shocked it took him this long to realize this wasn't working. Only when he saw Goku got it.

And is only now hoping for a hail mary save from Beerus.

God this guys garbage. :lol:

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Re: If Vegeta’s “goal” is TRULY to surpass Kakkarot.. Then he’s definitely going about it THE WRONG WAY!

Post by Gogeta SSJ Blue » Wed Jan 20, 2021 5:54 pm

Cipher wrote:
Tue Jan 19, 2021 11:24 pm
He probably wasn't ever going to surpass him with Ultra Instinct, so if anything trying something else seems like a risk worth taking.

You can out-strong anything in DB, which is as close to a universal rule as its world has.

Do I think the story is going to end with him actually being on top? No; but I think there's more to do with him by having him develop laterally than always just being Goku, one step removed. And he can certainly stay relatively caught up to wherever Goku is via his own means.
Now that is a great conclusion about this whole Vegeta situation!

Basically, I fully agree that he might be doing something worth the risk of going this path after all.

It still respects his personality regarding mostly his pride!

And, at least it should put much him closer to Goku, considering the existent gap between them.

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Re: If Vegeta’s “goal” is TRULY to surpass Kakkarot.. Then he’s definitely going about it THE WRONG WAY!

Post by Peach » Thu Jan 21, 2021 6:39 am

No he's not.

He's spent his whole adult life playing catch up to Goku. Catching up to Super Saiyan, Super Saiyan 2, Super Saiyan Blue. It's good that Vegeta realizes that learning Ultra Instinct, but not as good as Goku isn't a good path. He'll always be several steps behind.

Imo, I think Vegeta should focus on tactics and thinking. Make it a strength. He could attack points where he knows Goku is going to dodge to with ultra instinct. He could implement clones and "dummy attacks" to out smart Goku. He could hit him with techniques that are so big and so powerful, Goku can't possibly dodge them.

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Re: If Vegeta’s “goal” is TRULY to surpass Kakkarot.. Then he’s definitely going about it THE WRONG WAY!

Post by ChronoTwigger » Fri Jan 22, 2021 6:53 pm

So let's take our magical device, let's enter Dragon ball and go tell Vegeta he's doing wrong.

-Vegeta, you're doing a mistake and you cannot do mistakes!
-Why I cannot do mistakes? You'll do them every day.
-... ah. No, you'll see, if you'll mind a bit, angels are more powerfull than hakaishins.
-And "I don't mind a f**k" ring a bell to you? I can't do that prissy angelic stuff, it's homo.
-But you want to surpass Goku!
-The same "I want to surpass Goku" IS IRRATIONAL, so it does lead to irrational consequences. WTF, is my life, not your grinding RPG, go watch Boruto and shut up, silly ningen. I hate you. Die.

... and this is how Vegeta will trigger on you.
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Re: If Vegeta’s “goal” is TRULY to surpass Kakkarot.. Then he’s definitely going about it THE WRONG WAY!

Post by TBMx » Sat Jan 23, 2021 11:20 am

So basically anyone who's been through Popo/Kami's training is better at emptying their minds than Vegeta. :crazy:

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Re: If Vegeta’s “goal” is TRULY to surpass Kakkarot.. Then he’s definitely going about it THE WRONG WAY!

Post by marumuju » Sat Jan 23, 2021 12:39 pm

Vegeta is taking the opposite approach from Goku, as he did with his Super Saiyan transformation. He will probably not achieve Goku’s strength (I guess that is impssible at this point), but he might become quite strong indeed. The God of Destruction role seems like it was made for him.

(Now I’m thinking of Vegeta as a God of Destruction and Goku as his angel… :crazy: )

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Re: If Vegeta’s “goal” is TRULY to surpass Kakkarot.. Then he’s definitely going about it THE WRONG WAY!

Post by TBMx » Sat Jan 23, 2021 1:33 pm

marumuju wrote:
Sat Jan 23, 2021 12:39 pm
The God of Destruction role seems like it was made for him.
I don't like that.

Imagine if instead of struggling hard to achieve Super Saiyan, he gives up on it and Toriyama had some one say "It's okay Vegeta, there's this technique called Dark Saiyan that's just as good as SS, but unlike SS, the power comes from a jealous desire, not a need. Perfect for you!

And Vegeta just goes "Uh huck! Okay!"

Dragonball, and Vegeta in particular has fallen so far that people can't see how lame that is. :lol:

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Re: If Vegeta’s “goal” is TRULY to surpass Kakkarot.. Then he’s definitely going about it THE WRONG WAY!

Post by GodVegetto91 » Sat Jan 23, 2021 4:55 pm

Lord Frieza wrote:
Wed Jan 20, 2021 7:50 am
Well this is a bit of reach given we don’t even know what this technique is yet. Also UI is not infallible, which is the whole point of Whis’s defeat of Goku in the new chapter. In the anime Jiren held his own against UI with raw power alone.

Also Vegeta seems to have always been rather good at judging when something doesn’t suit him. Even during his most arrogant period in the Android Arc, he apparently chose not to use Grade 3 due to it’s obvious weakness. He’s never even attempted to obtain SS3, as far as we know, for the same reason. Also during Super he’s undergone some incredibly growths in power and has at times been equal to or surpassed Goku for a time. True this started with his training with Whis alongside Goku but since then his greatest gains have been via him doing his own thing, like his time chamber training, his personal growth during the ToP and going to Yardrat.

So with that in mind, Vegeta is doing the right thing. What’s the point in him trying to gain UI if it doesn’t gel with him? If he’s never going to master it like Goku has, then it’s pretty worthless. Better to follow his own path and obtain an potential equal yet different and more compatible type of power.
Well, someone has not been catching up with this latest manga chapter it seems.. It was just revealed that the pinnacle of what Goku can potentially achieve with perfecting Ultra Instinct.. Is to go all the way to the Grand Priest’s level and beyond!

Can you see Vegeta ever overcoming such a level of precision and accuracy???

I don’t.
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Re: If Vegeta’s “goal” is TRULY to surpass Kakkarot.. Then he’s definitely going about it THE WRONG WAY!

Post by precita » Sat Jan 23, 2021 10:45 pm

He wasn't up to him in the Boo arc and it should have stayed that way.

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Re: If Vegeta’s “goal” is TRULY to surpass Kakkarot.. Then he’s definitely going about it THE WRONG WAY!

Post by TBMx » Sun Jan 24, 2021 12:46 pm

Vegeta doesn't deserve bailing out.

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