I feel like the Super anime (or a continuation of it?) has been quietly canceled

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: I feel like the Super anime (or a continuation of it?) has been quietly canceled

Post by batistabus » Mon Mar 15, 2021 8:17 pm

precita wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 7:40 pm Watching something, especially an action series, is more fun in animation because you get to see the movement and attacks in motion and the voice acting and music usually also elevates a scene. In manga you just get still images, and unlike the original manga which is Toriyama's art and story, the Super manga doesn't have that prestige (even though they all work from the same outlines).
I watch and enjoy plenty of anime, but I disagree. I always prefer manga over anime. Like films based on books, anime is an adaptation. You're getting a mix of creative visions that, in my opinion, don't always jive well with the original author's style. The quality of the different parts can be very inconsistent. Because anime can't linger on individual scenes forever, it fundamentally changes the pacing, and I rarely feel that added content "improves" the story. Compared to manga, it doesn't leave nearly as much room for the reader's imagination.
precita wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 7:40 pmUntil the manga started doing new stories with Moro and the current arc, it just felt like a more rushed "cliff notes" version of the anime just loosely following the same plots but changing everything else to condense it. Obviously the manga had no time to cover an 80 person tournament, so almost all of it was off-screen or rushed.
I don't want to beat a dead horse, but I don't feel the manga has felt rushed at all since the BoG "arc". If anything, the anime feels extremely padded in comparison.
precita wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 7:40 pmI'm also willing to bet if the anime ever comes back and adapts Moro, it'll be an improvement over the manga version.
I don't think the DB or Z anime improved the original manga, but since Toriyama didn't draw Super, who knows? I do think an anime adaptation of the Moro arc would improve the product for plenty of other people, regardless of added content. Anime is just more popular. It's kind of like how a lot of people don't like to watch foreign-language media with subtitles...some people just aren't as inclined to reading manga. Either they don't like it or they can't connect with it, and that's perfectly fine.

I'd look forward to the continuation of the anime if it picked up the manga story. It would be cool to see the animator's take on the fights, hear the voices for the new characters, and hear the veteran cast at it again. But for me, Dragon Ball is best as manga.

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Re: I feel like the Super anime (or a continuation of it?) has been quietly canceled

Post by Thani » Mon Mar 15, 2021 8:39 pm

Well, agree to disagree in regards to anime x manga. I have plenty of criticism for both, but overall I preferred the anime rendition of the Black and ToP arc and the final fight of the U6 arc.

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Re: I feel like the Super anime (or a continuation of it?) has been quietly canceled

Post by Grimlock » Mon Mar 15, 2021 8:42 pm

Mister_Popo wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 6:01 pmIf you deny it offers promotional value for the broader franchise indirectly, even if a lot of fans speak about it, in Japan and on various international and English boards / social media, you may.
Giving something for fans to talk about hardly has "promotional value", it doesn't mean anything really in the grand scheme of things. That's the only role Dragon Ball Heroes has for Western audience. Unless I'm mistaken, I don't think Heroes merchandising is sold outside Japan (without importing). And if no money is involved, then like I said, all Heroes does is promote discussions among us, which mean nothing.

Then again, there is that Super Dragon Ball Heroes: World Mission game for us. But did that game provide anything else?
Mister_Popo wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 6:01 pmI just gave my view on things, that's it.
Yeah, I understand that. It's just that the way you gave your view was... you know, a little too much to the sense of "what I'm saying is the absolute truth" (?).
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Re: I feel like the Super anime (or a continuation of it?) has been quietly canceled

Post by BootyCheeksJohnson » Mon Mar 15, 2021 9:12 pm

batistabus wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 8:17 pm
precita wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 7:40 pm Watching something, especially an action series, is more fun in animation because you get to see the movement and attacks in motion and the voice acting and music usually also elevates a scene. In manga you just get still images, and unlike the original manga which is Toriyama's art and story, the Super manga doesn't have that prestige (even though they all work from the same outlines).
I watch and enjoy plenty of anime, but I disagree. I always prefer manga over anime. Like films based on books, anime is an adaptation. You're getting a mix of creative visions that, in my opinion, don't always jive well with the original author's style. The quality of the different parts can be very inconsistent. Because anime can't linger on individual scenes forever, it fundamentally changes the pacing, and I rarely feel that added content "improves" the story. Compared to manga, it doesn't leave nearly as much room for the reader's imagination.
precita wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 7:40 pmUntil the manga started doing new stories with Moro and the current arc, it just felt like a more rushed "cliff notes" version of the anime just loosely following the same plots but changing everything else to condense it. Obviously the manga had no time to cover an 80 person tournament, so almost all of it was off-screen or rushed.
I don't want to beat a dead horse, but I don't feel the manga has felt rushed at all since the BoG "arc". If anything, the anime feels extremely padded in comparison.
precita wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 7:40 pmI'm also willing to bet if the anime ever comes back and adapts Moro, it'll be an improvement over the manga version.
I don't think the DB or Z anime improved the original manga, but since Toriyama didn't draw Super, who knows? I do think an anime adaptation of the Moro arc would improve the product for plenty of other people, regardless of added content. Anime is just more popular. It's kind of like how a lot of people don't like to watch foreign-language media with subtitles...some people just aren't as inclined to reading manga. Either they don't like it or they can't connect with it, and that's perfectly fine.

I'd look forward to the continuation of the anime if it picked up the manga story. It would be cool to see the animator's take on the fights, hear the voices for the new characters, and hear the veteran cast at it again. But for me, Dragon Ball is best as manga.
Somehow the manga felt rushed and the anime felt padded at the same time. So neither side was perfect. But I think a lot of the problem comes down to Toriyama not being on the ground floor writing the scripts and doing the art. I think this is a big part of what leads to the inconsistencies in character, since we're not working directly from the man himself. With the three canon movies every character feels on point since Toriyama wrote the scripts and screenplays. But when he's just giving notes and approvals and many different script writers with different styles and interpretations are having to adapt what he says to screen, that's going to lead to characters not feeling right. And this could also be applied to the manga.
We need a Steve Simmons retranslation of the manga.

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Re: I feel like the Super anime (or a continuation of it?) has been quietly canceled

Post by Cipher » Tue Mar 16, 2021 5:02 am

precita wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 7:40 pm Watching something, especially an action series, is more fun in animation because you get to see the movement and attacks in motion and the voice acting and music usually also elevates a scene. In manga you just get still images
Woah, we’re going to have to really disagree about how satisfying these two mediums inherently are.

(Also you can listen to whatever you want while you’re reading. Very rarely is the experience of a 1:1 animated adaptation, especially with all the real-world production hurdles that comes with, going to match the version the pages allow you to direct in your head, which can be tailor-curated to your own tastes, reading of the action, and pacing sensibilities, and is limited only by your imagination as a reader. Plus you get the fun of a singular voice.)

My .02 anyway. That really has nothing to do with Super.

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Re: I feel like the Super anime (or a continuation of it?) has been quietly canceled

Post by Kinokima » Tue Mar 16, 2021 6:42 am

When it comes to anime vs manga I don’t really have an opinion. There are some cases I like the anime more and some the manga.

When it comes to Super I especially don’t have a preference. The only thing I really felt the Super anime improved on the manga was adding some slice of life which I am a fan of.

Overall I do like the animation, music, and voice acting an anime brings to the table. But I often like the more detailed art in many manga (this is not always the case and depends on the manga but sometimes very detailed manga art is simplified to animate it better.) Also because anime often has a set number of episodes it often has to cut material from the manga and sometimes what is cut adds development to the story & characters. Now of course this was never an issue with Super or the original Dragon Ball. But the opposite was true for Dragon Ball sometimes anime adds extra scenes that don’t always work as well.

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Re: I feel like the Super anime (or a continuation of it?) has been quietly canceled

Post by Super Saiyan Swagger » Tue Mar 16, 2021 7:56 am

I'm of the mindset that Toei wants to return the series with a bang, but can't do so with the amount of projects they're handling at the moment.

Super: Broly's box office numbers definitely had an impact of when and how the series will return. It damn near made more money in the US than it did in Japan, so maybe they're finally realising that they can capitalise off of international fans moreso rather than just focus on Japan.

Super's beginning was so bizarre. It aired with no official release for international audiences. Fans had to watch the show illegally with fansubs... in 2015. :lol: You would think that Dragon Ball of all series would have some kind of proper distribution for its revival series when it launched, but we didn't get shit until around the end point of the Future Trunks arc, where they finally started simulcasting the series.

What I'm getting at is that despite the series's massive success internationally over the past couple of decades, I feel as though only recently have they realised the mass appeal of Dragon Ball outside of Japan and Broly's box office numbers are reflective of that. I don't buy the idea that they don't want to make an anime because they don't need to, as the franchise is making money without a series at the moment, but that doesn't make sense. They can make more money with an anime, guys. :lol: New anime means new story arcs with new characters. Which means new figures, new DLC in Xenoverse, new cards in DB Heroes and Legends/Dokkan etc.

What I'm predicting is going to happen is that once Toei can start flexing their animation muscles after they've wrapped up a couple of projects, they'll begin working on Super's return in the near future. They're going to actually have a simulcast ready from the very start. Hell, maybe they'll collab with a big streaming service like Netflix. It happened with One Piece, so who knows? That'll catch the attention of international audiences. Anything could happen.

Toei's been such a monster of a studio lately that it feels almost unrecognisable from their output back in 2015. One Piece looks better than ever at the moment. I'm really excited to see their next Dragon Ball Super anime, whether it be a series comeback or another movie.

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Re: I feel like the Super anime (or a continuation of it?) has been quietly canceled

Post by FlpShimizu » Tue Mar 16, 2021 8:29 am

Super Saiyan Swagger wrote: Tue Mar 16, 2021 7:56 am I'm of the mindset that Toei wants to return the series with a bang, but can't do so with the amount of projects they're handling at the moment.
I think that's the case too. They were going down the same unplanned road taken in 2015 but decided to take a break. This time, they'll get it right.

This is just my speculation, but we see Toyotaro get more and more involved with the overall production of the manga (designs, plot, Dragon Room) and he also began exploring the lore in more impactful ways (UI, Hakai, Gods, Uub). Seems to me they're slowly but surely passing the torch. While this transition moment passes, Toei can finish their current projects and have a healthy production cycle. Dragon Ball had some very bad press when the schedule melted, Toei doesn't want that again with their big franchises.

I know Toyo is disliked very passionately by some fans, but I really believe they're grooming him to take Dragon Ball forward accompanied by a great anime adaptation. That being the reason they'll take their sweet time.
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Re: I feel like the Super anime (or a continuation of it?) has been quietly canceled

Post by precita » Tue Mar 16, 2021 9:29 am

Can we make comparisons to Sailor Moon Crystal since they're both made by Toei?

Sailor Moon Crystal started in 2014 and aired 26 episodes. There were many animation errors that were fixed on the DVD releases (just like the beginning of Super had poor animation and off-model characters). Then Toei waited a full year till 2016 to do Season 3 which was only 13 episodes. Then instead of making a Season 4, they decided to do the next arc into two movies instead...and it took until 2021.... 4 years after Season 3 ended in 2016 to continue the series.

Now most would say Sailor Moon isn't half as popular as Dragon Ball these days, but the fact that Sailor Moon had to wait 4 years to see a continuation and even then they decided to just make two movies instead of a full season to cover the rest of it is pretty suspect.

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Re: I feel like the Super anime (or a continuation of it?) has been quietly canceled

Post by Jord » Wed Mar 17, 2021 3:56 am

precita wrote: Tue Mar 09, 2021 11:04 am People have forgotten this, but back in March 2018 when the last ep of Super aired, they said there would only be a "brief intermission" before it came back again with new episodes. Well we're now 3 years later in March 2021, and it's safe to say that never happened. With Toei also booked with animating new anime for the rest of the year and seemingly into next, as well as the lack of timeslots, it's safe to say Super won't be returning anytime soon.
They only mentioned "a brief intermission" . They never said "new episodes". There was a brief intermission between Super and the next anime, Heroes. Or if you want a different take, there was a brief intermission between Super and the Broly movie. The anime has ended.

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Re: I feel like the Super anime (or a continuation of it?) has been quietly canceled

Post by MasenkoHA » Sat Mar 20, 2021 12:16 am

I think the sooner people accept there isn’t going to be a new anime the better.

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Re: I feel like the Super anime (or a continuation of it?) has been quietly canceled

Post by wjbraden » Sat Mar 20, 2021 3:19 pm

Is Toei's slate really that full? From the looks of it, lots of stuff has recently wrapped, or in the process of wrapping this year. I'd say it's very likely to come back in October when Digimon ends. With a Broly retelling, Moro arc and granolah (which would probably be long finished by the time the anime got to it) plus filler here and there, they have plenty to adapt. That's probably been the delay the whole time. But we'll see.

Let's just hope the international roll out of this batch is quicker than last time. :wink:
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Re: I feel like the Super anime (or a continuation of it?) has been quietly canceled

Post by precita » Sat Mar 20, 2021 5:23 pm

I figure it's not coming back in the same form either. Reviving Dragonball like it was in the 80's/90's going on endlessly with 1 new ep a week with little to no breaks was not the best of ideas. It's actually shocking Super has over 130 episodes, because there's no reason a revival would have went on that long. Toei tried to revive it the same way it originally aired but that doesn't really work in modern television.

They should either bring it back as a short 26-episode series (each arc would be adapted in 26 eps), then take a break for half a year, then come back.

The best way to describe the current Super manga is like the "Joss Whedon Justice League" whereas the Super anime is like, "The Snyder Cut." I just see the manga as cliffnotes version of these stories till we get an anime adaption.

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Re: I feel like the Super anime (or a continuation of it?) has been quietly canceled

Post by TheSaiyanGod » Sat Mar 20, 2021 10:55 pm

Although I enjoy the U6 tournament in the manga, up to that point the manga was still more like a product to promote anime rather than its own thing (despite adding some different concepts from the anime like the unmastered SSB and the return of the SSG).

But from Future Trunks arc onwards I don't see the manga as just a "cliffnotes version" of the anime.
As Toriyama said during this saga, Toyotaro's own ideas were increasingly beginning to be introduced and this led to several points in the manga being fundamentally different from the anime (which is discussed until today). And now we also see several concepts being expanded and introduced.

Of course, the anime will naturally seem more complete due to its nature of having much more time and space to add more things but at least for Super much of it was padding, since probably Toriyama's outilines would not be enough to create such extensive stories, which is reinforced by the fact that several narratives added by the TV series feel like filler and are simply not developed afterwards).
FlpShimizu wrote: Tue Mar 16, 2021 8:29 am I know Toyo is disliked very passionately by some fans, but I really believe they're grooming him to take Dragon Ball forward accompanied by a great anime adaptation. That being the reason they'll take their sweet time.
I honestly think that from the beginning Toriyama already planned for Toyotaro to be more involved / take part in the future of the franchise, especially in the way he talks about him in some interviews. For example

Whenever I supervise anime and whatnot, there’s always something that bugs me and that I’ll ask to have fixed. But when I look at your storyboards, I can just take it easy. I can give it the OK in no time flat; it really makes things convenient (laughs)

You might actually be the closest to my style. There aren’t many people who can manage that! Well, maybe there are people who can imitate my pictures, but not many artists can pull off an entire chapter the way you can! Your storyboards are really tight!

And these are from the first DBS volume

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Re: I feel like the Super anime (or a continuation of it?) has been quietly canceled

Post by Aim » Sun Mar 21, 2021 2:02 am

BootyCheeksJohnson wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 2:22 am
Aim wrote: Sun Mar 14, 2021 6:37 pm
precita wrote: Sun Mar 14, 2021 11:29 am

I don't know about the Goku Black arc, but the TOP would be hot garbage in the anime if it was adapted from the manga the way it was. Literally the only thing I like better about it is Freeza fighting the Saiyan girls for a bit that didn't happen in the anime.
Don’t get me wrong, the manga is shit, though it’s starting to pick up, but I think it’s better to have consistency.
I haven't read the whole manga, but from what I did read, I liked the manga more than the anime. Less filler material/better pacing most of the time. (I got other things to do so that's a bug plus for me.) More consistent tone, more consistent Goku (especially during the Goku Black arc), more consistent art. It's not the greatest art, but still. It just felt like a better put together product to me. Not to say that the anime didn't do specific character moments better, and it had the fun baseball episode with Yamacha. But, overall the poor inconsistent production quality and inconsistent character writing among staff killed it for me.
The only reason why the manga constantly seems to fall behind one way or another is because Toyotaro is incompetent and no one is willing to replace him with an artist like NewSky who’s the closest we have ever gotten to Toriyama art without the artists being Toriyama.

Just like with Yamamuro, we get these issues when you put spoilt little shits in positions of control who ignore all criticism and take liberty.

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Re: I feel like the Super anime (or a continuation of it?) has been quietly canceled

Post by Mister_Popo » Sun Mar 21, 2021 9:15 am

MasenkoHA wrote: Sat Mar 20, 2021 12:16 am I think the sooner people accept there isn’t going to be a new anime the better.



The anime not returning does not need to be a problem as such.
One may hope, but never expect.
People expecting it to come back or even hyping up its return while we can only establish it doesn't untill now, may however create a problem that by definition does not need to be there.

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Re: I feel like the Super anime (or a continuation of it?) has been quietly canceled

Post by BagetaSama » Wed Mar 24, 2021 12:05 am

It breaks my heart, the Moro arc NEEDS to be given an anime version. It's already a great arc, but they could fix some things that the manga fucked up, and with Shintani animation it could truly have been an incredible arc. It's just, so disappointing. I'm still in disbelief that it hasn't come back thus far. I literally had a dream that there was an announcement that it was coming back and woke up crushed lol.

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Re: I feel like the Super anime (or a continuation of it?) has been quietly canceled

Post by Koitsukai » Wed Mar 24, 2021 12:34 pm

Most likely it was, for the time being.

DBS had a weird run, 4 anime episodes vs 1 manga chapter per month ended up in one medium's story being way more advanced than the other. While both stories shared similar beats, by the time the manga got to a given arc's climax, we pretty much knew what was going to happen. Freeza getting recruited for the ToP wasn't a surprise, we had seen that in the anime like a year before or so. We knew 17 didn't kill himself against Jiren. Many things were lost, lacked impact because it was already done slightly in a different way.
The manga ToP used several things from the anime in its favour, like Kale ringing out Aniraza meant as much because the anime told us Aniraza was really strong.

Basically, it sucked, the anime was doing its thing, the manga its own thing but a year later and with not enough distinctions from the anime to actually enjoy it at its full glory.

I reckon they have cancelled it for now, until the manga can be adapted by the anime, instead of having a race between them again. By now we have only a movie to retell and a convoluted arc to animate, which probably would have the anime caughting up with the manga sooner than later. I think after the Granolah arc is wrapped the anime might start to show its face again. Also, after the Granolah arc, EoZ should be a thing, so probably the manga will get a time skip or something, if it isn't ending that is.

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Re: I feel like the Super anime (or a continuation of it?) has been quietly canceled

Post by precita » Thu Mar 25, 2021 10:08 am

Do people really expect the Moro arc to be 1:1 when its adapted? Not counting random fillers thrown in here and there.

I think story wise it might be altered. I think Goku throwing the senzu bean to Moro will be cut in the anime. The backlash to that was too strong and it doesn't feel like something Toriyama had in his notes.

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Re: I feel like the Super anime (or a continuation of it?) has been quietly canceled

Post by SupremeKai25 » Thu Mar 25, 2021 10:12 am

precita wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 10:08 am Do people really expect the Moro arc to be 1:1 when its adapted? Not counting random fillers thrown in here and there.

I think story wise it might be altered. I think Goku throwing the senzu bean to Moro will be cut in the anime. The backlash to that was too strong and it doesn't feel like something Toriyama had in his notes.
I expect Toei to reimagine the Moro arc and make their own version, as was the case with all arcs of Super. Toriyama provides the plot outline and then anime and manga build from the same basis but in their own unique path.

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