The Toyotaro Appreciation Thread! (I think he’s a much better writer than Toriyama!)

[Mister_Popo]

I may have a few issues with him, but when he inevitably fully takes the reigns, I'll be alright with it, which is more than I would've said a couple years ago. His work feels more like "Dragon Ball" than virtually any other non-Toriyama writer who has taken a swing at it.

I wonder if and when the franchise will decide to leave Toriyama be, when it comes to the main continuity.

[Jiren The Alpha]

It's a good thing that Toyotarou has the Dragon Ball title and Toriyama to protect him. With out those 2 the fanbase would be able to see how bad of mangaka he really is.

[Matches Malone]

It's a good thing that Toyotarou has the Dragon Ball title and Toriyama to protect him. With out those 2 the fanbase would be able to see how bad of mangaka he really is.

This goes double for the anime, as that would've been cancelled after its 13th episode without those 2 names attached to it.

[Jiren The Alpha]

It's a good thing that Toyotarou has the Dragon Ball title and Toriyama to protect him. With out those 2 the fanbase would be able to see how bad of mangaka he really is.

This goes double for the anime, as that would've been cancelled after its 13th episode without those 2 names attached to it.

Not if it had movie quality every episode. And Toriyama is a more entertaining writer then Toei and Toyo, so of cource fans gets more exciting when they see his name, Toei is also better at improving his content then Toyo.

[Thani]

Toyotaro appears to possess the same flaw Toriyama always had.

Not knowing how and being unwilling to use characters beyond his one or two main characters. And when he finally does, it's surprisingly anticlimatic.

To me, they're exactly the same in the regard that bothers me the most. That's all I have to say about this thread.

[batistabus]

Not if it had movie quality every episode.

This will never ever happen. The difference between the scope of an individual episode and a feature film is worlds apart.

Toyotaro appears to possess the same flaw Toriyama always had.

Not knowing how and being unwilling to use characters beyond his one or two main characters. And when he finally does, it's surprisingly anticlimatic.

Are you talking about the side characters (Gohan, Piccolo, Kuririn, etc.)? What about the antagonists/villains or guest characters (Trunks, Merus, Universe 6, etc.)? If the story is between Goku, Vegeta, a few guests, and a few antagonists, why should the the lack of inclusion of characters unrelated to the central conflict be a detriment to that? Shouldn't the goal of the author be to tell a compelling story rather than making sure no side character feels left out?

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you. But if both Toriyama and Toyotaro exhibit this same "flaw" - whatever it may be - maybe it's a feature.

[Kinokima]

It's a good thing that Toyotarou has the Dragon Ball title and Toriyama to protect him. With out those 2 the fanbase would be able to see how bad of mangaka he really is.

This goes double for the anime, as that would've been cancelled after its 13th episode without those 2 names attached to it.

Not if it had movie quality every episode. And Toriyama is a more entertaining writer then Toei and Toyo, so of cource fans gets more exciting when they see his name, Toei is also better at improving his content then Toyo.

Fans get excited when they see Toriyama’s name because he is the original creator so of course that is going to hold more weight

Whether Toei or Toyo is better at adapting Toriyama’s material or improving it is a matter of individual opinion

[BagetaSama]

Bro he did a terrible job with every arc aside from the Moro arc and the BoG arc. He royally fucked up everything else.

[PurestEvil]

Nah nah nah, stop the cap.
Toriyama may not be JRR Tolkien, but at least he has the ability to keep people entertained even though the story is somewhat bullshit.
Most of Toyotarou's manga before the Moro arc was honestly quite lackluster, and even then, there was still some same-old bullshit all throughout.

[Dragon Wukong]

I'll be honest, I vastly prefer his usage of SSG throughout the first 2 arcs over SSBKK, and I think his handling of the Future Trunks arc far outpaced Toei's version.

[LightBing]

I appreciate him. More his writing than the art and paneling. I never read his fan-manga so I'm unsure how he might be being produced, by suits at least, Toriyama's input seems confined to particulars.

His writing is usually interesting with some moments of excellence which for the most part go unnoticed by the audience, who prefers to lift their pitchforks and deconstruct single lines or panels.

To give an example:
During Pan's birth chapter everyone focused on Goku saying he didn't watch his sons birth and called him a bad dad.
They missed the parallel Toyotarõ made between Vegeta and Goku, how both care for their families in their own way.

Both stopped training for them. Goku was working at a request from Chi-Chi, long enough to be rusty apparently. While Vegeta valorized being there for his daughters birth.

It's was a nice small character writing which went unnoticed.

[GodVegetto91]

I'll be honest, I vastly prefer his usage of SSG throughout the first 2 arcs over SSBKK, and I think his handling of the Future Trunks arc far outpaced Toei's version.

The Zamasu Arc was definitely far better written and far more consistent in Toyo’s Manga than was in the Anime. The ToP however, I liked the Anime Version better. As for the Universe 6 Tournament Arc, I’m not sure what I like better. From one perspective, SSJ God and its concept is cool and all, and how like how they respected Vegeta in the Manga by having him drained of his energy, so Hit becomes strong enough to beat him, but I think I definitely prefer the Anime version with the Kaioken x10 SSJ Blue.

[Jiren The Alpha]

If we only had Toyo's verson of Goku black.....he would not have been the iconic villian he is now, samething with Jiren.

[SupremeKai25]

If we only had Toyo's verson of Goku black.....he would not have been the iconic villian he is now, samething with Jiren.

Jiren is boring either way, but it's true that Goku Black (and Fused Zamasu) are a lot more generic in the manga. Black acts like a child in the manga, he is too hasty, he is too careless. He lacks the patience that he had in the anime.

[Jiren The Alpha]

If we only had Toyo's verson of Goku black.....he would not have been the iconic villian he is now, samething with Jiren.

Jiren is boring either way, but it's true that Goku Black (and Fused Zamasu) are a lot more generic in the manga. Black acts like a child in the manga, he is too hasty, he is too careless. He lacks the patience that he had in the anime.

Jiren is Zamazu's bogeyman

[SupremeKai25]

If we only had Toyo's verson of Goku black.....he would not have been the iconic villian he is now, samething with Jiren.

Jiren is boring either way, but it's true that Goku Black (and Fused Zamasu) are a lot more generic in the manga. Black acts like a child in the manga, he is too hasty, he is too careless. He lacks the patience that he had in the anime.

Jiren is Zamazu's bogeyman

Yet he was nowhere to be seen in the Future timeline...

[Jiren The Alpha]

Jiren is boring either way, but it's true that Goku Black (and Fused Zamasu) are a lot more generic in the manga. Black acts like a child in the manga, he is too hasty, he is too careless. He lacks the patience that he had in the anime.

Jiren is Zamazu's bogeyman

Yet he was nowhere to be seen in the Future timeline...

he was meditating and was caught off guard....that's my headcannon , but anyway, Jiren in the anime was presented as a bigger threat then the manga. Him taking one step and everyone feeling his power was one of the best display of power in Dragon Ball history, and then you have manga Jiren's hit getting block by Roshi.....which i believe only happened because Toyo so the anime verson and thought that Roshi blocking Jiren's attack would be a great moment. But the only thing it did was making your antagonist look bad.

[Tai Lung]

I’ve been meaning to make this thread for some time now.. So here goes!

So far, I have been pleasantly surprised by his overall performance.. And while he certainly isn’t perfect and makes mistakes from time to time.. By and large, the dude is an all around superior writer than Toriyama..

Toriyama is only a superior artist that’s all.

Toyotaro is better for a couple of reasons in my opinion.

1. Consistency.

No .... Roshi vs Jiren with an excuse cheating fools
piccolo is god level
Gohan stronger that Toppo
inconsistency in the powers of the hakaishin etc etc

2. Fanservice.

I think it goes without explaining that Toyotaro is far more consistent in the writing department then Toriyama is.. The main reason for that is his younger age.. (and maybe his overall personality aswell!), and as a result of these two things, Toyotaro is FAR less forgetful than Toriyama! It’s really Toriyama’s lack of proper memory that’s to blame here.. (I also think he actually DOESN’T CARE about consistency to be honest!) But hey, that’s my take on it at least! xD

Unlike Toriyama, Toyotaro doesn’t make shit up on the spot to satisfy an interviewer’s question and he actually BOTHERS to not only re-read the original Dragon Ball Manga regularly.. But he occasionally dives in the old Guidebooks aswell! Hence why we get these consistent ages and timelines.. (Moro being 10 million years old, the Kaioshin being 5 Million years old.) As opposed to Toriyama’s incredibly stupid (75.000 years old bs), I’m sure he has the Kaioshin confused with the regular Kaio’s, who’s lifespan DOES only consist of 75.000 years max! As Herms said plain and clear: “Toyotaro sure knows his DB lore, like an old school fanboy!”

The second part: Fanservice.

And when I talk about fanservice, I actually mean ME, MYSELF, and I!

He delivers ME what I want..

You see, I have very specific demands.. And Toyotaro just managed to do the impossible, and make me a very happy and satisfied fanboy..!

The examples being:

CONFIRMING Ultra Instinct Sign and above to have Godly Ki.. Giving Vegeta Beerus’ destruction powers, introducing the concept of Spirit Control for Vegeta, which is an actual POTENTIAL UNLOCK for him! Actually managing to get the timelines and ages right! Resulting in Kaioshin getting his proper age as is the way it should be.. Etc etc.

These are just a FEW examples..

And although he still leaves many things left unexplained.. He sure as hell is willing to explain a lot more than Toriyama, Toei, and the rest of the gang!

I also like his many callbacks and tidbits to the original manga! (I know many fans don’t.) But overall, I DO, love it.

So yeah, all in all, I definitely am of the opinion that Toyotaro is a better writer than Toriyama.. And he’s certainly more than qualified and deserving of the job!

What do you think???

his versions of caulifla, kale and toppo have no personality and his FS sucks ... kale eliminating 4 universes sucks
He was responsible for the retcon to vegito
For something toyotaro did not read the guide where toriyama explains that kaioshin are born and they cannot become one ...

with that he has shown that as a writer in general he has gone from terrible to decent on several occasions, he is no better than toriyama or toei

[UpFromTheSkies]

I like Toyotaro, but I wouldn't say his work is superior. I've very much enjoyed his work on the manga, but we haven't seen him write a story completely on his own, so I can't really say if he's a better writer than Toriyama. As for his art, he's very talented and is great at imitating Toriyamas art style, but at the end of the day Toriyama is better at being Toriyama

[batistabus]

If we only had Toyo's verson of Goku black.....he would not have been the iconic villian he is now, samething with Jiren.

Toyo's Goku Black actually seems like Zamasu. The anime's take (aside from Nozawa's awesome performance) is overdone.

Like Kale, Jiren is single-handedly redeemed by the manga. He's much more sympathetic, acts like an actual hero, and doesn't waste everyone's time.