Does Anyone In DB Actually Have A Power Level Of 100 Quintillion???

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Does Anyone In DB Actually Have A Power Level Of 100 Quintillion???

Post by theherodjl » Wed Mar 17, 2021 11:31 am

While it was a joke that Golden Freeza had a PL of 100 quintillion as stated by his VA, is it possible that someone might be at that level? I'm not entirely convinced that the characters seen so far have proven that they have achieved such a figure but anything's possible, right?
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Re: Does Anyone In DB Actually Have A Power Level Of 100 Quintillion???

Post by SupremeKai25 » Wed Mar 17, 2021 11:46 am

100 Quintillion? Don't know.

Infinite/Unquantifiable? Yeah, Zamasu.

Hence why we call that state, "INFINITE" Zamasu.

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Re: Does Anyone In DB Actually Have A Power Level Of 100 Quintillion???

Post by Koitsukai » Wed Mar 17, 2021 12:09 pm

Beerus probably. If not during this arc, he'll be that strong by the next arc, or the one after that.

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Re: Does Anyone In DB Actually Have A Power Level Of 100 Quintillion???

Post by Gogeta_Blue » Wed Mar 17, 2021 12:27 pm

Probably.

Cell arc hit multi-billions. SSJ Vegetto in the Boo arc could easily be a trillion.

SSJG Goku blew that away. Then a fusion like Vegetto/Gogeta Blue is likely millions of times stronger than that.

And Angels....who the hell knows. Whis and especially the Grand Priest are still incomprehensibly strong.

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Re: Does Anyone In DB Actually Have A Power Level Of 100 Quintillion???

Post by batistabus » Wed Mar 17, 2021 1:03 pm

Freeza estimated that, after training for 4 months, his battle power could be 1,300,000. He might be a lot stronger than that, but not by such an insane factor.

Some might be inclined to do imaginary math based on guidebooks or trading cards not written by Toriyama. That's fine, but that doesn't reflect the series.

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Re: Does Anyone In DB Actually Have A Power Level Of 100 Quintillion???

Post by Jack Bz » Wed Mar 17, 2021 1:25 pm

batistabus wrote: Wed Mar 17, 2021 1:03 pm Freeza estimated that, after training for 4 months, his battle power could be 1,300,000. He might be a lot stronger than that, but not by such an insane factor.

Some might be inclined to do imaginary math based on guidebooks or trading cards not written by Toriyama. That's fine, but that doesn't reflect the series.
There's no way to rationalize that statement though. Freeza's 2nd form had at least a power level of 1 million on namek. Goku was then going even with a stronger Freeza, and then used kaioken X 20 and still was weaker than his full power. That means, with the most conservative estimate possible (without the use of any guide books) Freeza had a power level of at least 20 million on namek.

Unless you're arguing that this only applies to his first form, and he's only about twice as strong as he was on namek...which would still be something.

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Re: Does Anyone In DB Actually Have A Power Level Of 100 Quintillion???

Post by theherodjl » Wed Mar 17, 2021 1:30 pm

SupremeKai25 wrote: Wed Mar 17, 2021 11:46 am 100 Quintillion? Don't know.

Infinite/Unquantifiable? Yeah, Zamasu.

Hence why we call that state, "INFINITE" Zamasu.
Zamasu isn't infinite in power since he got thoroughly eradicated by Zeno. Based on how Super Shenron reversed the Zenos' multiuniversal annihilation, the dragon might even be above them since he can supposedly grant any wish. If Zalama is Super Shenron's creator then there could very well be a greater fish in the pond than even the previously mentioned individuals. The point is, Zamasu isn't truly infinite...just incredibly wide in comparison to most of his own reality.
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Re: Does Anyone In DB Actually Have A Power Level Of 100 Quintillion???

Post by DBZAOTA482 » Wed Mar 17, 2021 4:36 pm

The gods might have it.
fadeddreams5 wrote:
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.
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Re: Does Anyone In DB Actually Have A Power Level Of 100 Quintillion???

Post by batistabus » Wed Mar 17, 2021 6:15 pm

Jack Bz wrote: Wed Mar 17, 2021 1:25 pm
batistabus wrote: Wed Mar 17, 2021 1:03 pm Freeza estimated that, after training for 4 months, his battle power could be 1,300,000. He might be a lot stronger than that, but not by such an insane factor.

Some might be inclined to do imaginary math based on guidebooks or trading cards not written by Toriyama. That's fine, but that doesn't reflect the series.
There's no way to rationalize that statement though. Freeza's 2nd form had at least a power level of 1 million on namek. Goku was then going even with a stronger Freeza, and then used kaioken X 20 and still was weaker than his full power. That means, with the most conservative estimate possible (without the use of any guide books) Freeza had a power level of at least 20 million on namek.

Unless you're arguing that this only applies to his first form, and he's only about twice as strong as he was on namek...which would still be something.
I think we should assume the 1,300,000 refers to his max power. Even if he's way off, and his power level is actually in the billions (I don't have any reason to assume that), that's still a far cry from 100 quintillion.

Freeza said 1,300,000, but Toriyama wrote it. I think it's meant to show that the characters aren't as strong as power-scaling fans think. Perhaps Kaioken, Fusion, and Potara have really screwed with fan's interpretations of character's strength. Filler material and guidebooks have made this even worse. I understand why fans want to take those multipliers seriously (math should be math, right?), but based on what we know now, these techniques/transformations don't seem to literally equal a hard-number multiplication of power.

I think fans that care about estimating battle powers should take the 1,300,000 number seriously. If one does, one might be able to assume that, once your battle power is over 1,000,000, relatively smaller increases result in a deceptively significant increase in what you see/sense on the battle field.

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Re: Does Anyone In DB Actually Have A Power Level Of 100 Quintillion???

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Wed Mar 17, 2021 9:26 pm

Since they gave up on power levels a long time ago, it's impossible to tell. They gave some power levels in the 2008 OVA and in the new Broly movie, but those were only for relatively weaker characters. I really don't believe we'll be getting any official power levels of any relevant characters any time soon.

The highest canonical power level is still SSJ1 Goku on Namek, at 150,000,000. If you use the information from the SEG that states that SSJ2 is twice SSJ1, and SSJ3 is four times SSJ2, then SSJ3 Goku's power level has to be at least 1.2 billion (probably higher, due to increases in his base form since Namek).

We don't know how much stronger SSJG is than that, or SSJB, or Ultra Instinct, or whatever.
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Re: Does Anyone In DB Actually Have A Power Level Of 100 Quintillion???

Post by Jack Bz » Thu Mar 18, 2021 1:17 am

batistabus wrote: Wed Mar 17, 2021 6:15 pm
Jack Bz wrote: Wed Mar 17, 2021 1:25 pm
batistabus wrote: Wed Mar 17, 2021 1:03 pm Freeza estimated that, after training for 4 months, his battle power could be 1,300,000. He might be a lot stronger than that, but not by such an insane factor.

Some might be inclined to do imaginary math based on guidebooks or trading cards not written by Toriyama. That's fine, but that doesn't reflect the series.
There's no way to rationalize that statement though. Freeza's 2nd form had at least a power level of 1 million on namek. Goku was then going even with a stronger Freeza, and then used kaioken X 20 and still was weaker than his full power. That means, with the most conservative estimate possible (without the use of any guide books) Freeza had a power level of at least 20 million on namek.

Unless you're arguing that this only applies to his first form, and he's only about twice as strong as he was on namek...which would still be something.
I think we should assume the 1,300,000 refers to his max power. Even if he's way off, and his power level is actually in the billions (I don't have any reason to assume that), that's still a far cry from 100 quintillion.

Freeza said 1,300,000, but Toriyama wrote it. I think it's meant to show that the characters aren't as strong as power-scaling fans think. Perhaps Kaioken, Fusion, and Potara have really screwed with fan's interpretations of character's strength. Filler material and guidebooks have made this even worse. I understand why fans want to take those multipliers seriously (math should be math, right?), but based on what we know now, these techniques/transformations don't seem to literally equal a hard-number multiplication of power.

I think fans that care about estimating battle powers should take the 1,300,000 number seriously. If one does, one might be able to assume that, once your battle power is over 1,000,000, relatively smaller increases result in a deceptively significant increase in what you see/sense on the battle field.
I just think there's too many statements in the source material that are deliberately mathematical for that number to work with the original manga without a retcon. Like it or not, in the original story Toriyama went through a weird phase of applying numbers to things and introduced techniques described as being specific multipliers of those numbers.

Freeza even says on namek during the Goku fight that he is only using a small percentage of his power, and then goes on to clarify when he uses half of his max power, which dominates Goku. Goku thinks this is a bluff, but then has it confirmed. How does this work if his max power level is no greater than 1.3 million, and Goku can't keep up with half of that with a kaioken x10? Why use phrases such as "small percentage" or "50%" as opposed to just saying he's not trying that hard??

Kaioken is a technique specifically explained as multiplication. Why would Toriyama have even felt the need for Goku to use kaioken x 10 and x 20 if just using a regular kaioken would have worked the same thematically? He does everything he can to make it seem like Freeza's power level is multiples above a million, by having characters talk about percentages, half of full power, kaioken going into the high numbers etc.

Fusion is also described in the Broly movie, which Toriyama wrote the dialogue for, as "their two strengths are not just added together, they're significantly greater". Wouldn't this mean that if Goku and Vegeta fused in the Saiyan arc, their base form would be "significantly greater" than two million, which is the addition of their powers? That's a lot stronger than Freeza in RoF's 1.3 million, especially if power level changes after 1 million are more significant!

I don't care for assigning numbers to power for anything past the Freeza arc, so the question of this thread doesn't really interest me, but the 1.3 million statement struck me as the most "Toriyama is forgetful" statement of all time if taken to its logical conclusions, as well as the stuff about the henchman that gave Piccolo a hard time being comparable in strength to Zarbon. RoF is a real black sheep for things like that I suppose. It requires too much mental gymnastics to apply these things to the original manga.

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Re: Does Anyone In DB Actually Have A Power Level Of 100 Quintillion???

Post by Trouser » Thu Mar 18, 2021 4:18 am

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Re: Does Anyone In DB Actually Have A Power Level Of 100 Quintillion???

Post by TheQuestioner » Thu Mar 18, 2021 5:29 am

batistabus wrote: Wed Mar 17, 2021 6:15 pm I think we should assume the 1,300,000 refers to his max power. Even if he's way off, and his power level is actually in the billions (I don't have any reason to assume that), that's still a far cry from 100 quintillion.

Freeza said 1,300,000, but Toriyama wrote it. I think it's meant to show that the characters aren't as strong as power-scaling fans think. Perhaps Kaioken, Fusion, and Potara have really screwed with fan's interpretations of character's strength. Filler material and guidebooks have made this even worse. I understand why fans want to take those multipliers seriously (math should be math, right?), but based on what we know now, these techniques/transformations don't seem to literally equal a hard-number multiplication of power.

I think fans that care about estimating battle powers should take the 1,300,000 number seriously. If one does, one might be able to assume that, once your battle power is over 1,000,000, relatively smaller increases result in a deceptively significant increase in what you see/sense on the battle field.
While I would like to believe that the statement doesn't contradict the existing lore, I disagree heavily. We know that the Kamehameha has a battle power multiplier of at least 2x as early as the Saiyan Saga. Later in the Frieza Saga, Goku's Kaioken x20 Kamehameha fails horrendously against Frieza. This alone should grant a power-up far greater than a 4x boost. Super Saiyan proceeds to beat up that very same Frieza, scaling Super Saiyan above that boost earlier. This escalation alone should place Frieza (Post-Training) FAR above a battle-power of 1,300,000. As you can tell, I'm also being extremely conservative here since I didn't even include the scaling of the later arcs. It's just that ridiculous.
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Re: Does Anyone In DB Actually Have A Power Level Of 100 Quintillion???

Post by Koitsukai » Thu Mar 18, 2021 8:17 am

I think it makes much more sense to assume Freeza was talking about his initial form, the one that was clocked at 530,000 (because he never measured his FP, also nobody could do that, the scouter has limits) and later he says his next form is above 1M (probably because he knows he doubled his power).
He is telling us that he more than tripled his original strength, which makes more sense than believing the past 10 years, which were filled with stronger and stronger fighters that have been dwarfing the previous benchmark of power, all fit between 1,100,000 and 1,300,000 of the Namek saga, including Super Vegito, SSG, BoG Beerus and Golden Freeza, going against what the show itself implied back in the day. Toriyama forgets things, and doesn't care much about these kind of stuff to even put much thought behind it.

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Re: Does Anyone In DB Actually Have A Power Level Of 100 Quintillion???

Post by PowerLevel Science » Thu Mar 18, 2021 12:54 pm

C'mon.

It's OBVIOUS that Freezer is referring to his own first form with the 1,300,000 PL statement.
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Re: Does Anyone In DB Actually Have A Power Level Of 100 Quintillion???

Post by batistabus » Thu Mar 18, 2021 1:33 pm

PowerLevel Science wrote: Thu Mar 18, 2021 12:54 pm C'mon.

It's OBVIOUS that Freezer is referring to his own first form with the 1,300,000 PL statement.
The scene in no way suggests that he's talking about his "first" form, unless you're talking about his "true" form, which may be the case.
Freeza wrote:By my prediction, let me see...if I train earnestly for four months, I should be able to reach a battle power of 1,300,000.
He says it very dramatically, so why present it like that if it were a fraction of his power? The film never gives us an "updated" battle power after his training, and Freeza doesn't even say something like "I was so strong our technology couldn't measure it". Freeza does say he pushed him self further than he intended when achieving Golden, so he's probably a bit stronger than 1,300,000, but unless we get an updated battle power in the Granolla the Survivor arc, 1,300,000 is the only number to go off of.

I pose this question: If Freeza's true/slim white form is 1,300,000, but Golden Freeza allows him to match SSB Goku (who some assume has a battle power many factors greater than 1,300,000), what kind of multiplier are we talking? To me, based on some of the battle powers I've seen for the Godly level, it seems like it would be the biggest multiplier in the series...by an absurd extent.

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Re: Does Anyone In DB Actually Have A Power Level Of 100 Quintillion???

Post by Thani » Thu Mar 18, 2021 4:29 pm

Was that line dropped in the retelling of RoF? I don't surely remember, but if it was, then there's that.

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Re: Does Anyone In DB Actually Have A Power Level Of 100 Quintillion???

Post by TheQuestioner » Thu Mar 18, 2021 6:26 pm

Thani wrote: Thu Mar 18, 2021 4:29 pm Was that line dropped in the retelling of RoF? I don't surely remember, but if it was, then there's that.
I believe it was.
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Re: Does Anyone In DB Actually Have A Power Level Of 100 Quintillion???

Post by batistabus » Thu Mar 18, 2021 9:45 pm

It's also missing from the promo manga, but it's in Toriyama's script "memo".

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